BALLYDOYLE SHAME ON YOU

They think they can do what they like and when they like imo,take last years Derby,his horses didn't enter the parade ring until very late,very poor behaviour ,no class at all imo.[smiley:crazy]

They are under no obligation to do anything for punters.

Thats true they operate for their own interests only.And why should it be any different,people are very naive if they ever think otherwise.

No worse than Jim Bolger

Prima Donna has nailed it, the naivety of people on here thinking that trainers let alone multimillionaire breeding operations give a fiddlers about punters is astounding. It's a jungle out there....

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

WITHOUT US THE GAME IS FINISHED

Yep it is true that no one in the racing business seems to care about its customers

Remind me how racings share of the gaming market has gone down compared to other products.

As long as they dont bleat about the levy when punters lose faith in the product and switch to other forms of gambling where there is more transparency

They didnt want a vet to look at cape blanco after dante why could there be more than the lameness a vet might have found

good question henry, ive had my suspicions for ages

I think it would be even more damaging for Ballydole if JM rides SNA now pr ballsup if he does

IMO because the vet may find that injury was worse than was stated.

Media luvvies are to scared to ask any decent questions of big stables dont want to upset them,bloody Emma Spencer wouldnt even interview Haley Turner ffs like she is irreplaceable lol

Good thread Henry. The contempt these people have for us cannot be ignored. Jock Stein once said that football without the fans is nothing. The same would apply to horse racing.

Henry & Zilzal I agree with you about the punters importance in financing the game but that doesn't mean the trainers/owners/breeders do, the game is tilted in their favour and always has been, that's what bugs me people acting as if this is a new thing.
With regards to the cape blanco affair, playing devils advocate here, O'Brien wasn't at the track and was unaware of how potentially serious (or not) the injury was so letting a bha vet take him for a trot on an injured leg probably didn't sound like the best idea. remember these are stallions with values in the millions and if I was an owner I would be backing the trainer every time.

absolutely they have all become more media freindly for one reason to keep us interested in racing like they are giving us a real insight .........how patronising...does anyone really beleive owners and trainers and jockeys dont lay horses through 3rd 4th 5th parties giving them a wage in the process,yes they are seen to be doing something to clean up racing, wow we are treated like thickos at every turn

Terminal, its mostly my gripe the way Ballydoyle operate now. I have followed racing for around 40 years now and cant remember MVOB running his operation like they do. The most he had in the Derby was three(if i remember rightly in 1977) and i cant remember the who will run saga we have now these days from the yard.

Yep a yards loyalty must be to its patrons, but its a big operation with worldwide supporters and must realise its own importance within the racing world

It's such a game. The way it's presented now they have 4 potential Derby winners. Can't all be champions - most likely they will all be average.

Agree again but for me instead of letting it piss me off I incorporate it into my betting and analysis of markets especially the antepost classics, most of what comes out of these camps is disinformation/hype in order to protect the future STUD value of the horse not to aid the ordinary punter  in winning cash...

Cape Blanco wasnt unsaddled on the track or anything nor was he  mortally wounded so a little trot would surely have not made anything worse big time charlie they would have thrown the library at them if it was dandy nicholls for example

Lets put this another way,do you think the way they behave is good for racing ?

I agree with you but that says more about the yellowness of the BHA than the behaviour of either trainer you mention.

i really detest coolmore, not you SOF AND OTHERS, just their empire of ruling the world,

To be fair though nothing they've done comes close to Bolger's antics with Teofilo and New Appproach.

I personally find it very sad that they screw this game for everything it's worth to THEM and give sweet FA back.

Not surprising given how they conduct themselves in business (just look at Mtchells and Butler most recently)but still disapointing all the same.

By the time the next trainer comes in the eventually replace AOB I would dread to think what state the sport of kings will be in. The sport of paupers more like...

Turnip if you read my previous posts you will see that I think the game is completely distorted in their favour, I disagree with it and with some of their behaviour but I am far from shocked by it, but it isn't anything new so instead of punters pissing against the wind and directing their ire at the aforementioned culprits why aren't they attacking the authorities and system that allows them to flourish..

Imagine what we would have been subjected to if they had Sea the Stars?????  Conections had a superstar and you didn't get this hype and bull from them.  25k bet on here tday on SNA after negative publicity makes me question if the wheels have really come off.

Ballydoyle will do whatever suits their own interests, which they're entitled to do. However, to answer TT's question, then I don't see how the way they operate is doing racing any favours. Ante post betting helps to generate interest in racing, but their shenanigans end up turning many people off getting involved. Personally I don't really care however much they arse about, I will still just back whatever I fancy, they've been chucking horses at the Derby for the last eight years without any success.

TP,totally agree about the Authorities,bunch of gutless w a n k e r s imo,and Coolmore know it,if this was a lesser operation we were talking about do you think they would get away with it,i think not.

what is it they're supposed to be getting away with?

Almost too funny to post.  what a load of tripe.

SNA backers talking thru their pockets.

zilzal1     10 May 10 16:37 
That is the 64k Question, 3yos can suddenly leap forward and bridge a gap. Another question being do you trust SNA's form at his price, we still have the Dante and the Irish 2000 to go yet, and as much as i was taken by him in the RP, i have this nagging feeling that hes going to be one of those two year olds that cost people money at three.


Hardly a SNA backer here

I'm a SNA layer actually.

Not getting their horses in the parade ring in the Derby until the last minute,not allowing vets to look at their horses,etc,they seem to think they can do as they wish,it doesn't look good does it.

Kev,haven't had a bet in it yet.

Figgis - where do you have JV in your speed ratings please?

SNA out . Loving it. Absolutely loving it purely for the anticipated financial gains
However agree with TT. Went to Epsom last year & felt so cheated at the time when 5 horses didn't turn up. In hindsight it wasn't a bad thing to keep looking at the great STS instead

I have him on a good figure when winning the Criterium, Kev, the Gallinule though was a farce as far as times are concerned, as they crawled. I think some people are getting a bit carried away by what was pretty much a non event. Although, I've backed Bullet Train and that trial was also slowly run.

Slow run debut good for JV though, maybe?  Wouldn't want him throwing up a big number two weeks before the Derby imo..

Criterium was stunning.  Sunday just proved he had trained on.

Praying for no bounce!

Kev, horses shouldn't bounce off races run that slowly.

I still don't get the Midas touch gamble. Apparently inspired by someone close to the stable. Wonder if SNA was disappointing even then & a likely NR?

Kev, do you not find it unusual for a horse being talked of as a Ballydoyle star, that he didn't start fav on any of his 3 starts last year and that his sp was as big as 10/1 in the Criterium?

He wasn't unfancied on his first two runs, there were much more fashionable names in the Criterium (including the unbeaten winner of the Marcel Boussac) and as a Montjeu he was always going to be a better 3yo than 2yo.

To make betting pay we must do our own homework. Trainers and owners always over rate their own horses anyway. VJ has twice finished ahead of Midas Touch, yet everyone, even it seems Ballydoyle, seemed to happily ignore that. And this I can say - if Midas Touch was their No. 1 fancy for Epsom there is no way he would have raced at Chester which was the plan until suddenly they had no one available for the Derrinstown.
Hawk Wing started fav. against High Chaparral. When is the last time the Ballydoyle stable jock picked the right one at Epsom anyway, so we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves if we pick the wrong one too.
Are all those critics of Aidan O'Brien as quick to lash out at Paul Nicholls when there is a change of plan?

o'brian and murtagh are both two bandits
I only hope that all the colmoore and their mafia may lose the derby

Think you've answered it pretty well there ballhopper.

Lot of rubbish on this thread imo.
People seem to want to know the result of a race now before they consider having an antepost bet!

Like last year Ballydoyle have the winners of a lot of the major Derby trials in their string, what is expected? Build a course of the exact contours of Epsom at home, have them race on it and then just send over the winner?

Surely the winner of the Racing Post Trophy deserves his place in the field if fit and well? ditto the Dante, Derrinstown, Criterium International and if they had the Chester trial winner too then him aswell.

Why declare their hand before its absolutely necessary? Things can change in a moment. If Aidan had come out and ruled out Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco last week saying that they go to France, and St Nicholas Abbey trod on a stone and wasn't 100% there would be uproar too.

All of this is the exact same as last year all the hullabaloo over who Murtagh was going to pick. His mount finished 4th but the stable saddled the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, all finished within a length of each other. They don't always know before a race which one is going to win.

Pay your money, you take a chance, if you're going to cry about it then wait until the day of the race.



St Nick backer signing in!

All of this is the exact same as last year all the hullabaloo over who Murtagh was going to pick. His mount finished 4th but the stable saddled the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, all finished within a length of each other. They don't always know before a race which one is going to win.

Very good observation TJ. I personally don't have anything against the Ballydoyle way and think that they are actually fairly forthcoming in general. GL for next week.

its very easy to forget that all the hype surrounding the ballydoyle brigade meant that the best horse in the last 20 years was sent off the very generous 11-4 for last years derby

Figgis I hope all is well my friend, it's been a while

I thought he was visually stunning on Sunday, as he was the last day there in France and to me he looks every inch a Derby winner. When you get up close to him in the parade ring he's a truly beautiful racehorse, a fine athletic looking colt, much more full in his frame than last season and it's clear he's developed well during the winter.

I know he didn't impress you on the clock at the Curragh, but he'll improve massively for the run and you'll see an even better Jan Vermeer at Epsom.

Good point well made Mr Prince!

thx [smiley:crazy]

is it possible that jan vermeer (who incidentally i believe is named after the dutch painter who did that girl with pearling painting, loved the film with scarlet johansson and colin firth) is too slow to win a derby?

after all he went the same route as a two year old as fame and glory and soldier of fortune did. i always wonder when they send a two year over a mile ballydoyle see them as a bit of a plodder.

I think everyone has forgotten that his blinding time in France came on soft ground and that he doesn't look to have been trained for the race ie: held up and running in the Gallinule ain't the usual route to the Derby.
I like Midas Touch much more; a fast time on fast ground in his trial, looked to have a turn of foot too.
Jan Vermeer looked decent last week but with doubts he's not for me.

A fast time in france means zero their races are slow then sprint not many quick times run to compare with JVS RACE

STATING THAT SNA +MIDAS ARE EPSOM DEFINATES AND NO DECISION ON THE OTHER 2 LEADS US TO BELEIVE WHAT.?....IF THAT AINT PUTTING US AWAY I DONT KNOW WHAT IS

Sounds like a Binocular scenario here, then it pished the Champion Hurdle!

Why dont they just run them all and cut the bullcr@p? Just a thought.