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Swinia
08 May 10 22:35
Joined:
Date Joined: 18 Mar 09
| Topic/replies: 9,104 | Blogger: Swinia's blog
Having fallen into the "hype" trap in Cheltenham over Long Run (who may yet fulfil its promise) i'm wondering why Workforce is so fancied for the Dante. Please enlighten me ??????
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Report Ballydoyle May 9, 2010 12:44 AM BST
Cannot understand why this is so short. Even if it wins the Dante, I wouldnt be wanting to back a horse for the Derby thats only had 2 career wins. I think its a suspect stayer too.

St Nick will win the Derby. Forget the Guineas run, that was just to warm it up. Anyone who backed it for that was a bit silly imo give that he had won over 1m on soft ground as a 2yo (and horses like this dont necessarily get quicker as they turn 3) and also the record of 3yo Montjeus over the trip. Another half mile will show what this horse is all about and 7-2 is a hell of a price gicven the opposition - Workforce (see above), Jan Vermeer (will run abroad), Cape Blanco (not regarded as same level as St Nick), Bullet Train (beat poor nags today and even the trainer thinks its doubtful its a derby horse), Chabal (would you trust Godolphin?) The only one I fear is Coordinated Cut who was very well thought of by Chapple Hyam and given a good write up by Kieren Fallon before it made its debut this year. Trained by a man who knows, it will be interesing to see it in the Dante
Report ThunderFromDownUnder May 9, 2010 12:48 AM BST
Zeitoper, snaff.
Report Hussard May 9, 2010 1:08 PM BST
Workforce routed a very sound yardstick fto after being slow away from an unfavourable draw. Michael Stoute doesn't talk up his horses. He is putting a maiden winner into the Derby trial which he uses as a steeping stone to the Derby i.e North Light and Tartan Bearer. The horse has been steadily backed for the Derby from 20's into 8's before it has run at 3yo and the yard know the time of day. .

I'd rather be on this at double the price than a horse that blew out in a very very average guineas.
Report Graeme83 May 9, 2010 1:15 PM BST
Ballydoyle - i don't think your reason for opposing Chabal is much use. Asking 'would you trust Godolphin' isn't a reflection on the horse. To me it looks like a contender if it can stay the trip. Crissford said they can only hope it gets the trip, which is fair enough. I have Chabal as the number 1 non Ballydoyle contender.
Report kirk st. moritz May 9, 2010 2:22 PM BST
Chabal my only bet in the Derby last September 19/1 until taking St Nick recently hope he moves from dark horse to Derby fav however am getting the vibes from Stoutey that Workforce is v good and can see him joint fav with St Nick for the Derby at the end of next week.
Report mythical prince May 9, 2010 3:50 PM BST
if st nick abbey wins the derby i'll give up the gameCry
Report Charlton2005 May 9, 2010 3:58 PM BST
Agreed Swinia. Bookmakers benefit.I willbe laying this one for both Dante and Derby. GL
Report Charlton2005 May 9, 2010 4:04 PM BST
Hussard, the stable DO know the time of day but the two horses you quoted started 6/1 and 10/1 for the Dante. At 2/1 this fav is a no brainer lay.
Report nashy May 9, 2010 4:29 PM BST
Michael Stoute put a maiden winner in a Derby Trial yesterday as well ,look what happened to that.
Report Hussard May 9, 2010 7:40 PM BST
Charlton - Your view and the view of other layers differs from mine on this horse. Respect your views as I see you lay a lot of short priced horses to good effect.

I expect Workforce to win well on Thursday and be Derby favourite by the end of the Dante !
Report santa concerto May 9, 2010 9:23 PM BST
strange that the  stoute camp were playing it down for the derby an saying itd go for the guineas. signs are good for it..
Report Twice Over May 9, 2010 11:15 PM BST
Hope he runs terribly and Bullet Train gets his run in the Derby! How they can even think of not running him after that performance is beyond me. I WOULD BE SICK IF I DIDNT GET A RUN FOR MY 40/1,,,,,,,,,ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED!!
Report santa concerto May 10, 2010 9:40 AM BST
nice price if you geta run twicew over . i had 33s for your namesake in the guineas an they didnt go.
Report johnnyrant May 10, 2010 9:56 AM BST
I've got Bullet Train at 50s Twice Over so I, too, will be SEETHING if he doesn't turn up.
Equally annoyed with what they've said regarding Workforce. What a complete u-turn since this story appeared in the R.Post:

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/k-abdulla-sir-michael-stoute-teddy-grimthorpe-newmarket-guineas-epsom-derby-derby-bid-ruled-out-for-stoute-s-classic-hope-workforce/684621/
Report santa concerto May 10, 2010 9:59 AM BST
which knowing how  mallet likes to operate makes you pretty much think   theyv always  had the derby an not the guineaas as  the target for workforce johnny rant..
Report johnnyrant May 10, 2010 10:24 AM BST
I don't think Stoute is on a par with Bolger in putting punters away. Only other Stoute incident I recall was when Russian Rhythm was said not to be ready and then won the 1,000 Guineas.
Report FormBet May 10, 2010 12:20 PM BST
Chabal has serious stamina issues for the Derby, far too free-running. O'Brien doesn't seem to have anything special this year and his Derby runners haven't done much in recent years. Workforce all the way - horse is a machine.
Report Twice Over May 10, 2010 3:21 PM BST
I had 33's for Twice over in guineas also SC but thought i was clever by backing it up with my 16's, 14's, 12's 10's and 9's for the derby when he didn't go! Think he got as low as 3's before his flop in dante.

That quote by Teddy Grimthorpe is quite sickening, i hope he's right and is just a miler and gets his ass kicked on thursday!
Report ben10 May 10, 2010 3:36 PM BST
Spotform, how do you figure Chabal has stamina issues and Workforce doesn't based on pedigrees?
Report Hussard May 10, 2010 5:07 PM BST
Grimthorpe really isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

After the Imprudencs he said they'd have to look into whether Special Duty ran in the 1000 Guineas. Does anyone really think Cricquette Head was looking into it ?

He said Workforce was a miler. I doubt that was Michael Stoute's assesment.

You really should look at trainer comments a bit more than Grimthorpe's well that's my opinion anyway !
Report school of science May 11, 2010 8:24 PM BST
Chabal's dam side are primarily milers,her dam was an unraced Zafonic mare out of a decent miler in France
She will have to settle a lot better in order to stay the 12f at Epsom,she raced freely in the Dewhurst over 7f on ground firmer that she had encountered before
Report Far From Trouble May 11, 2010 8:31 PM BST
Chabal is a she now Confused
Report la mallatiere May 11, 2010 8:37 PM BST
might be after thursday Silly
Report school of science May 11, 2010 8:38 PM BST
oops,its been a long day,
there seems to be more stamina on Workforce's dam side,his dam like Chabal's was unraced, but was a full sister to the St  Leger winner Brian Boru
Very interested how he performs tomorrow and looks a most exciting prospect,
Report Horsesforcourses May 11, 2010 8:45 PM BST
The Dante is now tomorrow Confused
Report school of science May 11, 2010 8:47 PM BST
sorry thurs,trying to watch the news,study the oaks and derby,think its time to log out,have fun,
Report Horsesforcourses May 11, 2010 8:49 PM BST
Only messin [;)]
Report Ballydoyle May 13, 2010 7:58 PM BST
Mythical Prince could soon be giving up the game....Laugh
Report Charlton2005 May 13, 2010 7:59 PM BST
mp is saaaaaaaaaaaaffffffffffffffffffffffffffeeeeeeeeeee
Report Far From Trouble May 13, 2010 8:02 PM BST
SNA w@nks up imo Plain
Report Charlton2005 May 13, 2010 8:07 PM BST
Murtagh says if he shows up and runs his race the othera are running for places. Then why is he twice the price he was for the 2000 (in which race HE wasn't even running for places)?

Happy

I have heard this sh1t so many times... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Laugh
Report Charlton2005 May 13, 2010 8:09 PM BST
All we need now is for Gary Wilshire to tell us about a 50k bet to win 100k and the horse is finnish!
Report Ballydoyle May 13, 2010 8:19 PM BST
Couldnt win the Guineas with Montjeu as his sire and winning over 1m as a 2yo on soft, lets be honest. Point two is do Coolmore really give a toss about the guineas in recent years? Point 3, Cape Blanco hoses up today and Murtagh talks up SNA.

Who's gonna beat him? Workforce??LaughLaughBullet Train???LaughLaughLaughChabal??LaughLaughLaugh

With seriousness though, Coordinated Cut will be there or thereabouts over 1m4f...
Report Prima Donna May 13, 2010 8:24 PM BST
^^^^^^What tosh...........thats all 3 points!
Report Ballydoyle May 13, 2010 8:26 PM BST
LaughLaughLaugh

We will see....
Report brandyontherocks May 13, 2010 9:27 PM BST
can't agree with you bally, that coolmore couldn't give a toss about winning the guineas. they would of loved to have been able to do the double sna to have a stallion to compete with sea the stars
Report brandyontherocks May 13, 2010 9:28 PM BST
* with sna *
Report Hussard June 2, 2010 8:57 AM BST
Wish Stoute's 3 yo's were running better but who knows at least we have a chance.

Backed at 16's laid out at 7's. Don't truly believe he can win it after the Dante but maybe the Workforce we thought was very good just didn't run his race at York.
Report Howellsy June 2, 2010 10:21 AM BST
I think he did "run his race" when you think that it was only his second start. If Ballydoyle make the mistake of sending CB to France, Workforce becomes favourite in my eyes. My admittedly subjective speed figures gave him an 87 at York, only a point slower than Midas Touch, but with much more to come.
Report Graeme83 June 2, 2010 10:23 AM BST
He lost his reins in that race and will be better suited by the trip. Good chance.
Report johnnyrant June 2, 2010 10:25 AM BST
I think Workforce is ridiculously short. Will accept he'll likely come on a bundle for his Dante run but this is a colt who really needs cut and he's not going to get it - next few days will be pushing the high 70ºC and the track will be quick come the Derby. I can't see him enjoying it.
Report santa concerto June 2, 2010 10:46 AM BST
yeh would want cut in the ground good at least.
Report bring on chelt!!! June 2, 2010 9:20 PM BST
Someone has seen something the public hasnt yet! That must be for sure and I am on at 14's.
Report Graeme83 June 2, 2010 9:23 PM BST
^^^^^^ 'someone' saw something nobody else did for the guineas as well. Don't believe these so called gambles all the time, but yes i believe he has a big chance going by the Dante.
Report bring on chelt!!! June 3, 2010 9:14 PM BST
2 run, needs cut....and how do you know that?
Report santa concerto June 3, 2010 9:23 PM BST
because its a shouldery horse that hits the ground hard thats why.
Report custardcream64 June 5, 2010 4:09 PM BST
ttt .
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:11 PM BST
Do you think this horse was ever going for the Guineas, I dont.

To remind everyone to NOT back any of Stoutey's Derby winners for the King George as they dont go there though the bookies will talk it up and Stoutey as always wont help you out either.
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 4:25 PM BST
Shergar did
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:35 PM BST
How much you having on him the King George then zilzal1? Post it up.
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 4:35 PM BST
And Shahrastani, and im sure North Light injured himself when second at the Curragh
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 4:36 PM BST
Thats a bit silly Kirk, i dont even know the price yet, or the field
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:38 PM BST
Ha ha you back his Derby winners the King George you may as well flush it down the bog .. take it you are a layer wanting easy money from punters on here?
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:39 PM BST
He wont deny it isnt going there until late as always and by then punters will have done a lot of money to the layers.
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 4:41 PM BST
I very rarely back anything in the King George, you said that his Derby winners dont turn up there, yet 50% have and one of the others was injured and put away for the season after the Irish Derby

Thats hardly accurate
Report Hussard June 5, 2010 4:43 PM BST
Well that will shup up Ballydoyle and their supposed superstars cos SNA would have been in the smoke behind him too.

He'd have ripped the Dante field apart without the bit problems.

Well done to Freemason Lodge. No screaming superstar let their horse talk not their big mouths !
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:44 PM BST
I am not going back that far that should be obvious the race has changed in significance since then. Derby winners dont go there but the layers ALWAYS play the race up as a target for free money now. You know it I know it.
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 4:45 PM BST
Well done to Freemason Lodge for misleading everyone over Workforce's Classic target. Stoutey is as bad as Ballydoyle for that.
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 4:51 PM BST
Actually Kirk you are completely wrong

Kris Kin was third to Alamshar, i didnt recall it as i lived on Crete at the time


So basically, all his fit ones ran at Ascot
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 5:01 PM BST
Have a lie down for a while............
Report Hussard June 5, 2010 5:03 PM BST
They did not mislead anyone over his targets imo I reckon he'd have gone for the 2000 if he'd been ready but he wasn't. The horse was late coming to hand.

I backed the horse for the 2000 and that is just part of ante post betting.

When you believe in a horse you keep the faith. I think they may go Eclipse next but Khalled Abdullah will have plenty say in what the plan will be.
Report Graeme83 June 5, 2010 5:03 PM BST
Ultra impressive performance.
Report A_T June 5, 2010 5:24 PM BST
Hopefully take on Fame and Glory in the King George
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 5:59 PM BST
I would strongly advise you wait until the day to back him as 3 yo Derby winners rarely turn up in the King George.

Stoutey is horrific at clarifying targets and leaves it late normally to rule them out so you have nothing to gain antepost backing this horse for any race until the day. Take that advice or dont as a backer.
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 6:06 PM BST
Well all of Stoutes fit ones turned up, contrary to your 16-11 post
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 6:10 PM BST
We'll see if Workforce turns up to face Fame and Glory. Will be a terrible antepost bet to find out and I wont be handing the bookies my cash while Stoutey keeps stumm until the last minute.
Report unclepuncle June 5, 2010 6:17 PM BST
By the sound of all the posts you've made since the Derby you don't have any cash left to give the bookiesLaugh
Report zilzal1 June 5, 2010 6:18 PM BST
Cue another nine hundred post thread...........
Report kirk st. moritz June 5, 2010 6:20 PM BST
Dont understand your post unclepuncle ... I do understand you are not a player yet have lots of opinions you dont back up with hard cash and are a timewaster on here.

You dont have to worry about my positions but god help if you started backing horses properly instead of Cheltenham going.
Report unclepuncle June 5, 2010 6:23 PM BST
I'll just stick to making profits Kirk - ta ta
Report Hussard June 5, 2010 6:27 PM BST
Stoute is no different to any trainer. He knew this was a good horse and I'm sure he wanted to go for the 2000 but the horse was simply not ready.

Running the horse in a Group 1 mile race with no prep could potentially have ruined Workforce for the season.

Instead they are toasting Derby glory and he answers to Khallid Abdullah not punters. I'm sure Abdullah is happy enough with the trainer.
Report Charlton2005 June 5, 2010 10:37 PM BST
WD Hussard. Hope you stuck with him.
Report elisjohn June 5, 2010 11:09 PM BST
stoute loves kg workforce will be there
Report Steeplechasing June 5, 2010 11:11 PM BST
Workforce routed a very sound yardstick fto after being slow away from an unfavourable draw. Michael Stoute doesn't talk up his horses. He is putting a maiden winner into the Derby trial which he uses as a steeping stone to the Derby i.e North Light and Tartan Bearer. The horse has been steadily backed for the Derby from 20's into 8's before it has run at 3yo and the yard know the time of day. .

I'd rather be on this at double the price than a horse that blew out in a very very average guineas.


Posted almost a month before the race - a superb call for which Hussard deserves enormous credit.  Well done.  I hope you made plenty H
Report bring on chelt!!! June 6, 2010 10:20 AM BST
santa concerto Joined: 11 Jan 06
Replies: 956 03 Jun 10 21:23   
because its a shouldery horse that hits the ground hard thats why. 

Blimey imagine if had soft ground...LOL. Alays amuses me people forming opinions about horses ground preferences after 2 runs.
Report blind boy of brighton June 6, 2010 2:40 PM BST
Being blind with limited visual skills i tend to take these comments too seriously.This put me off somewhat.
Report kirk st. moritz June 6, 2010 2:42 PM BST
You have to laugh at Ballydoyles contributions on here .. total guesser Laugh
Report kirk st. moritz June 6, 2010 2:46 PM BST
The bit moving through his mouth was a big smokescreen in the Dante for his Derby chances in the end. Would have been fav for the race if that hadnt happened imo.



Ballydoyle Joined: 23 Feb 02
Replies: 99 09 May 10 00:44   


Cannot understand why this is so short. Even if it wins the Dante, I wouldnt be wanting to back a horse for the Derby thats only had 2 career wins. I think its a suspect stayer too.

St Nick will win the Derby. Forget the Guineas run, that was just to warm it up. Anyone who backed it for that was a bit silly imo give that he had won over 1m on soft ground as a 2yo (and horses like this dont necessarily get quicker as they turn 3) and also the record of 3yo Montjeus over the trip. Another half mile will show what this horse is all about and 7-2 is a hell of a price gicven the opposition - Workforce (see above), Jan Vermeer (will run abroad), Cape Blanco (not regarded as same level as St Nick), Bullet Train (beat poor nags today and even the trainer thinks its doubtful its a derby horse), Chabal (would you trust Godolphin?) The only one I fear is Coordinated Cut who was very well thought of by Chapple Hyam and given a good write up by Kieren Fallon before it made its debut this year. Trained by a man who knows, it will be interesing to see it in the Dante


kirk st. moritz Joined: 04 Feb 07
Replies: 714 09 May 10 14:22   


Chabal my only bet in the Derby last September 19/1 until taking St Nick recently hope he moves from dark horse to Derby fav however am getting the vibes from Stoutey that Workforce is v good and can see him joint fav with St Nick for the Derby at the end of next week.
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