Classics 2016
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Quote from the Sun "Frankel is the best I have owned, including Dancing Brave". I know that it is hard to compare horses over different distances, but I feel a little disappointed if he actually said that.
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I actually personally believe Frankel is better, but I'm not sure he's really proved it yet.
it IS hard to compare horses over different distances,and eras,and being an owner does not make it easier.He dont know if Frankel is better than DB,its just his opinion,and that cannnot be proved either way.
So imo dont concern yourself about it.
So imo dont concern yourself about it.
cryoftruth, he most certainly hasnt proved it especially at 10 furlongs and 12 furlongs thats what i find hard to believe . dancing brave the most versatile freak i ever set eyes on, he could have won over 6 furlongs as well,a big if and we have all been here before but if he had won the derby we all would have been saying he was the greatest horse we had seen, in my opinion he was and thats good enough for me. frankels chasing him good though
He was rather forced into this statement by the questioning of him. He only speaks a little English and found it hard to understand Lydia Hislop's questions. She was leading him with the question as I recall. I don't think he really meant to say this. You can't compare horses from different generations.
I think you can compare hoses from different generations. You have a variety of ratings, generally the most reliable and well respected internationally are thew timeform ratings.
Of course ratings have limitations. Horses can only be really properly rated on what they do rather than what they might eb able to do. so Sea the stars was rated 140 when he might just have been better, as he only ever seemed to do enough. On the other hand hoses like mill Reef and Brigadier Gerard tended to do their best each time; the Brigadier bever idled when he hit the front and when he murders Sparkler, a French champion 5 lengths and Mill Reef 3 lengths, you know that was so good as he could do (a pretty high level though, 144 second only to Sea Bird in the last 5 years).
From memory Dancing Brave was rated 141 on his amazing Arc win. So far at least Frankel is rated 140 by Timeform, although that is a mid season rating likely to be upped or downed as his form becomes better understood as the form becomes clearer by subsequent runs.
Si at present Dancing brave would be a bit better than Frankel, but just look at Frankel's potential. he is bred to get 12 furlongs and now he has learned to settle, 10 furlongs looks a certainty. He is doing a pretty decent impersonation of a monster, or freak. I believe he is capable of a mid 14 rating and could be the best horse ever, maybe better even than Brigadier Gerard and Sea bird. However he still has to prove it.
Of course ratings have limitations. Horses can only be really properly rated on what they do rather than what they might eb able to do. so Sea the stars was rated 140 when he might just have been better, as he only ever seemed to do enough. On the other hand hoses like mill Reef and Brigadier Gerard tended to do their best each time; the Brigadier bever idled when he hit the front and when he murders Sparkler, a French champion 5 lengths and Mill Reef 3 lengths, you know that was so good as he could do (a pretty high level though, 144 second only to Sea Bird in the last 5 years).
From memory Dancing Brave was rated 141 on his amazing Arc win. So far at least Frankel is rated 140 by Timeform, although that is a mid season rating likely to be upped or downed as his form becomes better understood as the form becomes clearer by subsequent runs.
Si at present Dancing brave would be a bit better than Frankel, but just look at Frankel's potential. he is bred to get 12 furlongs and now he has learned to settle, 10 furlongs looks a certainty. He is doing a pretty decent impersonation of a monster, or freak. I believe he is capable of a mid 14 rating and could be the best horse ever, maybe better even than Brigadier Gerard and Sea bird. However he still has to prove it.
It's all irrelevant and needless speculation. You could only tell if Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars and Frankel lined up in the same race over 10f. I don't care much for ratings. Are Timeform some sort of Gods whose judgement must be officially respected? I continue to have a successful career as a pro punter without once purchasing Timeform or making my selections in a race based on ratings.
good post jonny. I too feel you HAVE to strong views away from ratings simply because so many worship them.
A Rating is just a View/Opinion , expressed in numerical form.
Indeed,and that opinion is formed using the same evidence that we use.
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST AND IT|S CONTENTS:
PKA has forgotten more about horses and breeding than the rest of us put together will ever learn
IF the OWNER (NOT some jumped up press oik) says it's the best he's ever had, you have to respect his judgement. When that owner has had the success on the course AND in breeding such as PKA has you sit up and take notice, When he says he is better than Dancing Brave we have to wipe our brows and think what is this horse going to be next year if they already think that?!!
I, for one, don't start knocking them, from the comfort of my sitting room, thinking I know better! I, for one, go and beg borrow and steal EVERY PENNY I can find and put it on the horse and continue to roll it over time and time again, and if I bottle out, I do it to place... Sodfs law it may get beaten one day: I'd be surprised and it won't be by anything in EUROPE - he'll have to go to the USA, Hong Kong or Japan to get beaten, and even then I'd be surprised...
"Best horse I've ever had..." Phrases like that are four a penny from AOB and Coolmore now - every other week this or that horse is the most amazing beast with astonishing speed that could win a group 1 at any distance... and we've learned to accept it for what it is - hype.
DID PKA actually say exactly that??? Let's set aside the fact his English is not absolutely fluent, particularly when under pressure from journalists and the question WAS framed in such a way as TO ELICIT precisely this response. Setting that aside ... I have never heard PKA say anything like it before... about ANY horse. He is not given to hyperbole and he and SHC are noticably quiet about their beasts - unlike Hannon, AOB etc. For PKA even to consider being quoted as such means they must think the world of the horse.
Let's not forget a few things: obvious, but they bear repeating.
99% of us do not have a hotline to SHC or PKA.
We don't see what they see on the gallops.
We don't see the ways he decimates Bullet Train, giving him weight.
We DO know, as they've told us, they waited until they had a horse of which they were confident of its greatness before naming a horse after PKA's American Trainer for whom they had the utmost of respect.
We DID see the look of SHEER HORROR on Cecil's face in the stands in the last 100y in the SJP when TQ's mid race panic that the pace-maker was getting away (Prompted by the idiot riding the latter looking over his shoulder in a "Come and get me before it's too late" way) led him to do a crazy manoeuvre that only a horse of Frankel's calibre survived
We HAVE seen him BLAST away from the front in the Guineas in a way that was sensational to watch and had all but a couple of the field cooked by the three pole - only those that were held up came through with any purpose
We have seen him accelerate by horses mid race, viz the sjp
We have seen him crank it up from the front, as in the Sussex. The post race analysis on RUK was spot on: he lolloped along using his stride, a la Usain Bolt. Gradually he went through the gears, getting them slowly into trouble, off the bridle and out of the race. The fine horse that he was, CC was never going to live with the stride and gears that Frankel has, particularly giving weight. CC may have been a length or two below his best. I, for one, happen to believe that was all a Coolmore/Hannon rescue mission after their investment and pride and joy resepectively was cooked out of sight. It took a week for a "Shadow" to be found that MIGHT have been a problem in the future. Hannon admitted the horse was sound and fit but the rest might get him lazy and bored and they called time. Hughes did all his increasingly frequent post-race spiel... That's MY take on it, for what it's worth... and I loved CC and made good money from backing him. But Frankel is in a different league.
Talk about Black Caviar is simply that - talk! She is a 6f beast. He is an 8f. He HAS won at 7f and would, IMHO, beat her at 7f. At 6f? Who knows? Not his distance and it IS hers. He has a massive turbo and would run most of the world off their feet, but perhaps not her... 7f would be a fair compromise but why take them out of their comfort zones to prove a point? Let's appreciate them for what they are and look forward to their offspring sometime.
Talk about Goldikova is closer to the mark. On all known PRESENT form, he'd take her comfortably. Would he have done so at her peak? I imagine so. A good colt/horse always beats a good filly/mare, the saying goes. She is a sensational filly, better IMHO than Canford, having done it around the world, but STILL not in Frankel's league... and he would, if he stayed in training to five, probably beat her record of Grp 1s... but that won't happen and, again, let's just appreciate them for what they are.
Talk about SYT is again just talk - the horse is two years older and based on what we've seen in the NORTHern Hemispher, NOT a grp 1 class MILER. He looks lazy now and is entitled to, with his age and miles on the clock. Frankel would chew him up over 8f. And let's set aside the Aussie arguments about Bart this, Bart that... irrelevant - we're talking about SYT today, in Europe, trained by AOB. Over TEN furlongs it would be interesting. DO you think SYT could beat Canford over 8f?? If TQ did the same tactics in an 8, 9 or 10f race I see SYT off the bridle as well... and Frankel took two furlongs to pull up at Goodwood! If SYT tried to kick for home I just don't see him ever getting a length in front, such is Frankel's cruising speed. But again, a largely pointless argument - SYT looks to have peaked now and Frankel is still improving and there is age and WFA and distance queries... The international Federation of Horse Racing doesn't have Frankel on 135, 5lbs clear of the rest of the world, headed by Black Cavier, with SYT back on 127 for nothing - that is their internationaal unbiassed educated opinion. Ridden correctly I cannot see SYT beating Frankel, hut that we'll never know, UNLESS PKA, sporting chap as he is (AND WHO ELSE would have allowed his Derby/Arc winner to take a dent to pride and reputation by running on unsuitable ground over an unhelpful trip in the Eclipse to serve up a good race for us) takes on SYT in the TEN furlong race at Ascot on QEII day... I note bullet train (Frankel's half brother lead horse) is in the QEII. Presumably as a pace maker... but he MAY be there in his own right and Frankel going for the Classic and one of Twice Over/Midday being saved to win a big prize elsewhere... Unlikely that is the case, but just a little speculation...
Comparisons with Seathestars are equally pointless. PERSONALLY, I thought I had seen the horse of my lifetime with STS... To have seen a second, pacier animal, in Frankel, I just thank my lucky stars and record every race and put every penny I have/had on them... STS was a sensationally composed animal that never showed us his true worth. He got out of jail in the Arc in an exhilirating fashion - far superior IMHO to anything Workforce ever showed, fine horse though the latter is. Sts's Irish champion is his top-rated performance, digging deep, but it is was Derby and Arc performances that showed his talent visually. A trajedy he did not race at four, but such is the ownner's right... IMHO they are of similar TALENT, but of very different temperaments, and the fact the latter will run at four and we will get to see the improvement and full potential means he will eclipse STS's ratings and memories, but that is not to say he is better - different beasts, different distances, different trainers, different years...
Comparisons acrossd the decades are virtually impossible to affect accurately and largely pointless, since feed, training methods, style of racing, jockey fitness/strength are all different now. And comparisons with MIDDLE distance horses seem pointless.
Comparisons with MILERS down the ages would have some value, but will be speculative. Frankel is certainly the best miler I have seen but there will be people who go back over the last thirty years who will have strong opinions other ways
Ultimately we have to go on what we have at the moment. On all known PRESENT form, Frankel is top rated horse in the world for a reason. He carries the pace of a sprinter into the intermediate 8-10f distances and for THAT reason he is considered a freak. We will see him over 10f before he retires, and he wasn't stopping at Goodwood, so I have no doubts about his stamina.
A word or two on the breeding... PKA had obvious faith in Kind, the dam - he sent her to Saddlers Wells and she produced Bullet Train. He sent her to Galileo TWICE and she produce Frankel and his unraced younger brother. The dam's dam's side is out of Rainbow Quest blood, and another reason I see no fears about 10f at all. PKA KNOWS HIS ONIONS, having built his racing empire on his dams.
The only notable PREVIOUS Colt by Galileo out of a Danehill mare was TEFILIO - similarly rated as Frankel at two and likewise unbeaten showing blistering speed before being injured and missing his later career. i'd LOVE to ask PKA did he do all that research when he sent kind to Galileo. I BET HE DID!! Subsequently, there has been a rush - I read - of Danehill Mares to Galileo so we shall see what happens going forward. Certainly, MAYBE is looking VERY promising (Similar breeding) whilst lacking the obvious exuberance of Frankel
I referred to Usain Bolt earlier. He has the similar exuberance as Frankel. He is a 200m runner, persuaded to step down to take the 100m crown, whom many believe could win a 400m title if he was prepared to train for it (He has said he won't but we'll see) Frankel is a simlilar freak of nature - blessed with abundant speen but with a stride and frame that carries that speed into the intermediate distances. We have seen what frankel could do over six furlongs at the start of the guineas, albeit that was against largely non sprinters. Do we think he could beat 6f specialists? Given the speed training, I see no reason why not... certainly that speed has made him unbeatable at 7-8 furlongs and as he matures and learns to settle it will see him a world force at 8-10 furlongs.
Finally, I fervently hope people will stop knocking the jock/horse/trainer etc and simply revel in the horse's colossal talent. Here is a horse that will probably be rated in the high 130s by the world handicappers by the end of its three year old season, and if he stays fit and well and continues to improve may well be rated ove 140 next year. That scares and excites me. A horse that should win over 8-10f the world over, next year, if they see fit to do so. A horse t5hat could take British racing to the world and win in HK, Jp, USA, wherever they race on ground that has grass on it and can hold enough people to get them in to see this beast... and who's to say they won't quietly run it up and down on a bit of sand /fibresand somewhere to see if they fancy a crack at the Breeders Cup CLASSIC. Whether he ever races on sand or not means nothing to me, save for the pleasure of shoving it down a few red neck throats, because he can be the world's best 8-10f turf horse and that will be more than enough.
Right, my bottle of claret is drunk, my bath is drawn, my supper is quietly bubbling in the casserole and my spiel is complete...
Good luck to you all.
F
PS - Anyone wanna give me evens about the QEII?? 5/6? 4/6?? No?!! Oh OK, just thought I'd ask ask!!
PKA has forgotten more about horses and breeding than the rest of us put together will ever learn
IF the OWNER (NOT some jumped up press oik) says it's the best he's ever had, you have to respect his judgement. When that owner has had the success on the course AND in breeding such as PKA has you sit up and take notice, When he says he is better than Dancing Brave we have to wipe our brows and think what is this horse going to be next year if they already think that?!!
I, for one, don't start knocking them, from the comfort of my sitting room, thinking I know better! I, for one, go and beg borrow and steal EVERY PENNY I can find and put it on the horse and continue to roll it over time and time again, and if I bottle out, I do it to place... Sodfs law it may get beaten one day: I'd be surprised and it won't be by anything in EUROPE - he'll have to go to the USA, Hong Kong or Japan to get beaten, and even then I'd be surprised...
"Best horse I've ever had..." Phrases like that are four a penny from AOB and Coolmore now - every other week this or that horse is the most amazing beast with astonishing speed that could win a group 1 at any distance... and we've learned to accept it for what it is - hype.
DID PKA actually say exactly that??? Let's set aside the fact his English is not absolutely fluent, particularly when under pressure from journalists and the question WAS framed in such a way as TO ELICIT precisely this response. Setting that aside ... I have never heard PKA say anything like it before... about ANY horse. He is not given to hyperbole and he and SHC are noticably quiet about their beasts - unlike Hannon, AOB etc. For PKA even to consider being quoted as such means they must think the world of the horse.
Let's not forget a few things: obvious, but they bear repeating.
99% of us do not have a hotline to SHC or PKA.
We don't see what they see on the gallops.
We don't see the ways he decimates Bullet Train, giving him weight.
We DO know, as they've told us, they waited until they had a horse of which they were confident of its greatness before naming a horse after PKA's American Trainer for whom they had the utmost of respect.
We DID see the look of SHEER HORROR on Cecil's face in the stands in the last 100y in the SJP when TQ's mid race panic that the pace-maker was getting away (Prompted by the idiot riding the latter looking over his shoulder in a "Come and get me before it's too late" way) led him to do a crazy manoeuvre that only a horse of Frankel's calibre survived
We HAVE seen him BLAST away from the front in the Guineas in a way that was sensational to watch and had all but a couple of the field cooked by the three pole - only those that were held up came through with any purpose
We have seen him accelerate by horses mid race, viz the sjp
We have seen him crank it up from the front, as in the Sussex. The post race analysis on RUK was spot on: he lolloped along using his stride, a la Usain Bolt. Gradually he went through the gears, getting them slowly into trouble, off the bridle and out of the race. The fine horse that he was, CC was never going to live with the stride and gears that Frankel has, particularly giving weight. CC may have been a length or two below his best. I, for one, happen to believe that was all a Coolmore/Hannon rescue mission after their investment and pride and joy resepectively was cooked out of sight. It took a week for a "Shadow" to be found that MIGHT have been a problem in the future. Hannon admitted the horse was sound and fit but the rest might get him lazy and bored and they called time. Hughes did all his increasingly frequent post-race spiel... That's MY take on it, for what it's worth... and I loved CC and made good money from backing him. But Frankel is in a different league.
Talk about Black Caviar is simply that - talk! She is a 6f beast. He is an 8f. He HAS won at 7f and would, IMHO, beat her at 7f. At 6f? Who knows? Not his distance and it IS hers. He has a massive turbo and would run most of the world off their feet, but perhaps not her... 7f would be a fair compromise but why take them out of their comfort zones to prove a point? Let's appreciate them for what they are and look forward to their offspring sometime.
Talk about Goldikova is closer to the mark. On all known PRESENT form, he'd take her comfortably. Would he have done so at her peak? I imagine so. A good colt/horse always beats a good filly/mare, the saying goes. She is a sensational filly, better IMHO than Canford, having done it around the world, but STILL not in Frankel's league... and he would, if he stayed in training to five, probably beat her record of Grp 1s... but that won't happen and, again, let's just appreciate them for what they are.
Talk about SYT is again just talk - the horse is two years older and based on what we've seen in the NORTHern Hemispher, NOT a grp 1 class MILER. He looks lazy now and is entitled to, with his age and miles on the clock. Frankel would chew him up over 8f. And let's set aside the Aussie arguments about Bart this, Bart that... irrelevant - we're talking about SYT today, in Europe, trained by AOB. Over TEN furlongs it would be interesting. DO you think SYT could beat Canford over 8f?? If TQ did the same tactics in an 8, 9 or 10f race I see SYT off the bridle as well... and Frankel took two furlongs to pull up at Goodwood! If SYT tried to kick for home I just don't see him ever getting a length in front, such is Frankel's cruising speed. But again, a largely pointless argument - SYT looks to have peaked now and Frankel is still improving and there is age and WFA and distance queries... The international Federation of Horse Racing doesn't have Frankel on 135, 5lbs clear of the rest of the world, headed by Black Cavier, with SYT back on 127 for nothing - that is their internationaal unbiassed educated opinion. Ridden correctly I cannot see SYT beating Frankel, hut that we'll never know, UNLESS PKA, sporting chap as he is (AND WHO ELSE would have allowed his Derby/Arc winner to take a dent to pride and reputation by running on unsuitable ground over an unhelpful trip in the Eclipse to serve up a good race for us) takes on SYT in the TEN furlong race at Ascot on QEII day... I note bullet train (Frankel's half brother lead horse) is in the QEII. Presumably as a pace maker... but he MAY be there in his own right and Frankel going for the Classic and one of Twice Over/Midday being saved to win a big prize elsewhere... Unlikely that is the case, but just a little speculation...
Comparisons with Seathestars are equally pointless. PERSONALLY, I thought I had seen the horse of my lifetime with STS... To have seen a second, pacier animal, in Frankel, I just thank my lucky stars and record every race and put every penny I have/had on them... STS was a sensationally composed animal that never showed us his true worth. He got out of jail in the Arc in an exhilirating fashion - far superior IMHO to anything Workforce ever showed, fine horse though the latter is. Sts's Irish champion is his top-rated performance, digging deep, but it is was Derby and Arc performances that showed his talent visually. A trajedy he did not race at four, but such is the ownner's right... IMHO they are of similar TALENT, but of very different temperaments, and the fact the latter will run at four and we will get to see the improvement and full potential means he will eclipse STS's ratings and memories, but that is not to say he is better - different beasts, different distances, different trainers, different years...
Comparisons acrossd the decades are virtually impossible to affect accurately and largely pointless, since feed, training methods, style of racing, jockey fitness/strength are all different now. And comparisons with MIDDLE distance horses seem pointless.
Comparisons with MILERS down the ages would have some value, but will be speculative. Frankel is certainly the best miler I have seen but there will be people who go back over the last thirty years who will have strong opinions other ways
Ultimately we have to go on what we have at the moment. On all known PRESENT form, Frankel is top rated horse in the world for a reason. He carries the pace of a sprinter into the intermediate 8-10f distances and for THAT reason he is considered a freak. We will see him over 10f before he retires, and he wasn't stopping at Goodwood, so I have no doubts about his stamina.
A word or two on the breeding... PKA had obvious faith in Kind, the dam - he sent her to Saddlers Wells and she produced Bullet Train. He sent her to Galileo TWICE and she produce Frankel and his unraced younger brother. The dam's dam's side is out of Rainbow Quest blood, and another reason I see no fears about 10f at all. PKA KNOWS HIS ONIONS, having built his racing empire on his dams.
The only notable PREVIOUS Colt by Galileo out of a Danehill mare was TEFILIO - similarly rated as Frankel at two and likewise unbeaten showing blistering speed before being injured and missing his later career. i'd LOVE to ask PKA did he do all that research when he sent kind to Galileo. I BET HE DID!! Subsequently, there has been a rush - I read - of Danehill Mares to Galileo so we shall see what happens going forward. Certainly, MAYBE is looking VERY promising (Similar breeding) whilst lacking the obvious exuberance of Frankel
I referred to Usain Bolt earlier. He has the similar exuberance as Frankel. He is a 200m runner, persuaded to step down to take the 100m crown, whom many believe could win a 400m title if he was prepared to train for it (He has said he won't but we'll see) Frankel is a simlilar freak of nature - blessed with abundant speen but with a stride and frame that carries that speed into the intermediate distances. We have seen what frankel could do over six furlongs at the start of the guineas, albeit that was against largely non sprinters. Do we think he could beat 6f specialists? Given the speed training, I see no reason why not... certainly that speed has made him unbeatable at 7-8 furlongs and as he matures and learns to settle it will see him a world force at 8-10 furlongs.
Finally, I fervently hope people will stop knocking the jock/horse/trainer etc and simply revel in the horse's colossal talent. Here is a horse that will probably be rated in the high 130s by the world handicappers by the end of its three year old season, and if he stays fit and well and continues to improve may well be rated ove 140 next year. That scares and excites me. A horse that should win over 8-10f the world over, next year, if they see fit to do so. A horse t5hat could take British racing to the world and win in HK, Jp, USA, wherever they race on ground that has grass on it and can hold enough people to get them in to see this beast... and who's to say they won't quietly run it up and down on a bit of sand /fibresand somewhere to see if they fancy a crack at the Breeders Cup CLASSIC. Whether he ever races on sand or not means nothing to me, save for the pleasure of shoving it down a few red neck throats, because he can be the world's best 8-10f turf horse and that will be more than enough.
Right, my bottle of claret is drunk, my bath is drawn, my supper is quietly bubbling in the casserole and my spiel is complete...
Good luck to you all.
F
PS - Anyone wanna give me evens about the QEII?? 5/6? 4/6?? No?!! Oh OK, just thought I'd ask ask!!
How can anyone compare 2 brilliant horses that excelled over different distances, Frankel is a top miler that will definitely not stay a mile and a quarter, unless it is in a horse box, and Dancing Brave was at his best over a mile and a half.
@ BurnageBoyo
Plenty of people ARE seing fit to compare them... I think my points are valid in trying to debunk some of the hot air being spouted in some quarters.
As to Frankel staying 10f - I don't know how many times you've seen the horse in the flesh, how often you've watched it on the tv or why you think you know more about racing than Cecil: perhaps we shld reconvene in a few months and see - either after he wins the 10f race on QEII day or after the Juddmonte next yr :O)PP
It took TQ a full two furlongs to pull Fr up at Goodwood, he has Rainbow Quest blood from the dam's side as well as Danehill and his stride and physique show nothing to suggest he won't stay 10f.
JUST because he has the speed to burn and TQ made a few tactical errors earlier on in the horses career doesn't mean the horse is not capable of laying up and kicking from the one pole in a 10f race.
I have yet to see an 8f horse get him off the bridle and I am damned sure there isn't a 10f horse that will. BUT we shall see...
Plenty of people ARE seing fit to compare them... I think my points are valid in trying to debunk some of the hot air being spouted in some quarters.
As to Frankel staying 10f - I don't know how many times you've seen the horse in the flesh, how often you've watched it on the tv or why you think you know more about racing than Cecil: perhaps we shld reconvene in a few months and see - either after he wins the 10f race on QEII day or after the Juddmonte next yr :O)PP
It took TQ a full two furlongs to pull Fr up at Goodwood, he has Rainbow Quest blood from the dam's side as well as Danehill and his stride and physique show nothing to suggest he won't stay 10f.
JUST because he has the speed to burn and TQ made a few tactical errors earlier on in the horses career doesn't mean the horse is not capable of laying up and kicking from the one pole in a 10f race.
I have yet to see an 8f horse get him off the bridle and I am damned sure there isn't a 10f horse that will. BUT we shall see...
That above is a very good post Frankelstein,though presumably your forum name tells us where you are coming from. I think the jury is still out on Frankel at the VERY top level. I have a suspicion the best miler he has beaten is not CC but Excelebration. We MIGHT see. I`m sure he would beat SYT over a mile but it won`t happen. Over 10f I`m not so sure. His dam SHOULD have stayed at least 10f on breeding but she was a 5f sprinter and therefore a bit of a freak. Frankel certainly SHOULD stay 12f IF you take Kind`s racing record out of the equation but I don`t think you can.
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