2017 English Derby

Ffs, stop moaning ,brilliant evening with biggest crowd for many years, great atmosphere.
Big up for Hesketh and Star Sports who have the money and balls to revive, yes revive a dying sport.

You sure deptford took another 150 m to catch the slow boat

It's a really strong dog

Correct

at the end of the day it was the fastest 'slowboat' in the race

4 has shown better (early) early than 1 off similar breaks before 1 has shown late EP and took them round
he's also seen off 5 coming home and yet didn't manage to win a heat

40/1 winner and seemingly no fluke about it

and the stats for the derby show dogs under 2/1 have done well

weird track, you can go round in circles trying to understand the place

I am sure, look through the form, couldn't pick up Bambi

they talked about bluebird but i thought bubbly turbo was the unlucky dog

It was a fluke, good luck to all connections

I did state on here after the draw was made that I would be laying the front 2 and it just shows how important the draw can be in this game.

best dog on the night.
Well done Towcester,also.

exactly what about the run was a fluke deptford?
it hasn't smashed
compare the initial early of the dogs 4 has the best
4 doesn't lead and trouble behind, he shows good middle
and he's seen tyrur shay off on the run in so has seen the trip out

no fluke about the final imo and yet I couldn't argue with a 40/1 SP that's exactly what I thought the dog would be

4 hasn't won it on the draw

Sparrow, thought Shay had the perfect draw and Clares quick enough to offset draw, really

wd on the lays sparrow, any layers of favs who are up during the derby have been v lucky

4 won on merit agreed, but the draw didn't do Clares any favours either.

I was lucky as I hardly had any other bets on the Derby.

Its gone round second to Brinkleys King, ec, from what I have watched I could only see 1 winner off the second bend

Re-run what price Astute?

And I have just watched Paddy lead at Crayford, a funny old game

Paddy ought to win that marathon final.

if you look at the head on, everything bar 1 moves off at the start then halfway up the run in 4 starts cutting in
3 has been absolutely smashed up by 4 but 3 cant go with 4 early that's part of the reason why its been carved up

I just think that 500m start is exactly the same as the other trips @ the gaff...ie a farce

no dog that makes a derby final should be as big as 40/1
anything can happen and only one race counts
prior races mean jack
lot of astute trainers around
seamus being one

only heard 1 person giving a case for the winner @ 40s and that was doc, coming on here after the race saying it was overpriced is fkin pointless

seamus had a little help from upstairs as well imo

Seamus a very good trainer, no doubt about that, if anyone said before the race off second bend 1 was in front of 4 with 5 in third, imo only one winner, but there you go, and we have to make the best of Towcester, we aint got much else

Well done dr

I have to agree with your analysis wonders. A great shame about the running track as the management have made a good effort in all other departments.

everything about towcester is pretty damn good, apart from the only thing that matters to me, the track

never been there but is there any shelter if raining

if they could have a cpl of proper straights on the track instead of having to constantly be on the turn
then it would be OK
but unless trainers and ppl with clout articulate those sentiments
nothing will be done

mesi    01 Jul 17 21:50 
never been there but is there any shelter if raining

thought u were on ur honeymoon!

that's the problem johnny

add another 15m to each straight to make a difference...45m to the race makes it nearly a 550 standard trip
there is too much "bend" to the circuit to meet minimum radius requirements and the consequence is that they cannot have proper straights and maintain a sensible standard trip there

I was harsh, the winner is not a slowboat, a decent and honest dog, but it has never looked a Derby winner to me

backers of the winner.
   wd
   GL.

so who designed the track in the 1st place then wonders?
they basically had carte blanche to design and build a less bendy track surely
on the ground that was available
no way imho it will ever now be re-configured
so i guess it is what it is
i did notice tonight tho' for whatever reason
as opposed to earlier rounds i have seen
that more dogs were finishing from off the pace
and not solely the preserve of fast paced inside dogs

I know they had certain requirements to adhere to johnny but certain things like the width of the track were designed for 8 dog racing

both the 480 & 500 trips have major faults imo and the boxes for the far side start leave a lot to be desired in terms of producing level breaks

all in all an almighty mess, or all is fine, depending on who you speak to

not sure who specifically designed the track in the end johnny...other people on here closer to towcester than me will know for sure

He should have given that 1 dog some of the same

A right ponce of a dog

from a personal perspective just don't like to see dogs basically constantly turning
doesn't appear to be dangerous to any great degree in respect of hock injuries or the like
but just doesn't feel quite right to the eye
and disadvantages dogs who can build up a head of steam
when chasing down leading dogs without meeting a bend all the time
i know Westmead hawk was awesome
but it would've done well to win back to back derbies here if at all

Has Woody produced A winning Ticket For the Missile please ?

"seamus had a little help from upstairs as well imo"

Do not know how they held it to gether at the Presentaion ,rainbows the Lot appearing  Unreal ,

Really makes u wonder sometimes  ,G luck to all connected

Droopys Ward, Droopys Roddick, and the biggest con ever, the hare being jibbed to let that old ponce get Farloe by 3rd bend, the final has become like a selling race at Brighton, totally unfathomable

the hurdle race as well case, acts of god they can and do happen

twice in 1 night is a bit fkin greedy like but fair play to them, nice to see smiles on their faces after the sadness they've had recently

Ch4, Last Vegas, finish the night with a smile

Tyrur Shay has been a superstar tbh very exciting any race he is in ..

Said Astute fast split but didn't expect him to do that. Although running well, no heat win and 40/1 after the draw saw the market give him little hope. Cant believe it really. Was struggling to lead in 6 bend races at Romford and Harlow. Pet hate of mine when the rank outsider wins the Derby. Roll on the Sunderland Festival!

PS I lost loads on the Derby, Case

People still spouting a whole load of uninformed c rap about the track.  There has never been a greyhound track in history, including White City, which was perfect in conformation and which didn't favour inside runners, and Towcester is no different.  If top, top trainers say it is great then that is good enough for me.  And many do.

It was basically supposed to be a two-dog race between Clares and Shay with an obscene amount of money riding on that pair, but bookies made a killing, scooped the lot. The good thing is the sponsors will probably be back next year

Honcho, I don't mind the track but it's obvious it wasn't designed for 500m racing with the starting traps at an angle. Unusual to see head on shots but sure dogs don't all swerve wide at other tracks?

Semi Final, Shay outruns Astute for second, Astute ec, its a funny old game

I watched the final last night, what a dissapointment, could of been watching an A6 from any track in the country just not the same with no atmosphere and no Derby roar, never been to Towcester whats the problem it seemed devoid of any life.

Unreal wins 1 race in the Derby and cops the lot. So many stars over 4 bends on show tonight Bluebird, Bruisers, Wildcat 3 best English dogs at present.
Select stakes could put on the greatest race of all time

Bluebird
Bruisers
Wildcat
Astute Missle
Murrays Act
Woohoo

I've been quite cynical about a Derby being run at Towcester, but they should be congratulated on the effort they've put in.  The streaming on Towcester TV is great, the sectional timing another innovative idea and their PR in promoting this Derby should be applauded.
I'm old school and a traditionalist, and I still yearn for the White City finals where the atmosphere, as the hare began it's journey to the traps, would send a tingle down the spine.
However, that can't happen anymore and, as many have stated, Towcester seem to be the only people trying to promote the sport.
It may not be Greyhound racing as I know it (the circuit just looks odd compared to more traditional tracks I've known), and the gravy train brigade have, imo, gone overboard in their praise of the place, but over time, I hope that, the more I watch the racing there, I become more used to seeing it presented this way and eventually embrace it..

close but no cigar! typical that a dog which didn't win a single heat, wins the final...I did think shay would win as they entered back straight but the winner stayed on very well.

I went racing in early 90s when I lived in Catford and late 90s when I lived in Portsmouth but not been for many years and therefore I'm not expert enough to give an opinion on the towcester track and how it may or may not affect results BUT trap draws, speed from traps, stamina etc are probably (maybe even definitely) more of a factor. 

towcester is home of the derby for the foreseeable future so lets not have a brexit remainer approach and accept it and move on, and hopefully tailor your selections accordingly..good luck all until the east anglian derby

Loyal you're a bit naive ain't you

If your a top trainer or even an average one you ain't gonna say publicly what you really feel about the track

Your dogs would not get picked for opens if the tracks decision was close as to which dog to pick

Plus with tracks closing you might one day want or need to be a contract trainer at the track

If you ask 10 top trainers privately to give a honest opinion if the track is a well designed running track to test a greyhound and produce a fair race in a six dog contest

I would say eight or nine would say it is not and the others would probably be contracted to Towcester anyways

All the rest of the other parts of Towcestor is great

I do not think the track will be modified now

But could maybe get around the rules as say you can't build a new track unless a minimum bend radius of x

Well Towcestor ain't a new track now it an existing one

Let's hope make the straights 20 to 30 m longer
Track a few meters narrower
Have the traps start on a straight not a bend
And a 490 to 500 m trip

^agree completely ravage

and knock the 8 dog bollox on the head ffs

what happened to people around the track, marquees etc
seemed on TV like everybody was kept away from the track

agree with who said just like watching an A6 bags race...in daylight as well pmsl
nothing special about it

Well done to connections of winner,some points i would make. The track at towcester is not built to promote excitement as the stands are too far away, any track where there is an atmosphere, is confined and close to the public.This race (derby) must be the pinnacle of the greyhound game,im afraid the apathy of true duggie men tell its own story. My final observation was in the gross revenue in the betfair market,ante post aside,the day of the market was £269,000 (approx). Compare this to the class 5 handicap at doncaster at same time of £380,000 (before in running) im afraid the stark reality is punters are not interested in betting on eqine lotteries any more.

sorry for error for equine read canine

i think the final result was destined to happen as anything can round there if it gets up with the pace at the bend and turns in a pitch,i am fed up saying this but everything towcester are doing is as jack says fantastic but the track layout and the way races are run is terrible ,

re the 8 dog races.if people dont bet on them they will disappear.

as for the final,best dog won on the night.simple as,it trapped the best,went up the best and finished the best.on the night which counted,it was the best.fair play to all connections.

It's dog racing Jim, but not as we know it!

40/1 for the final, what was best price Astute at the start?

woody i used to enjoy your sunday bags thread as it always gave me a laugh after my breakfast can you do a taking stock thread for your derby bets so i can have a laugh after my lunch

If anybody on here does not appreciate the Astute Missile was a deserved,convincing and merited winner of the Derby, I suggest you start watching virtual races.
Got a good break couldnt quite resist Hiya Butts early round the bend, stuck to its task forced its way up the inside of Hiya Butt at 3rd and resisted one of the strongest 4 bend dogs in training off the last. Run the race again you could probably get an equally convincing different winner.....but that my friends is greyhound racing.

By all accounts the noble lord is currently doing 5 figures per week in supporting the track.

Without a year-round media deal how can it continue?

Stowhound, beforehand virtually nobody saw him as the Derby champion. Won when it mattered, yes, but sure time will tell, down the list when it comes to great winners, just like Kinda Ready and Salad Dodger. Wouldn't it have been so much better if it had been Fear Zafonic and Mind The Net?

Astute little demand at stud, I'd say, unlike Shay and Clares. We got to keep things rolling

if they don't do the media deal it will close before 2020

Nothing better than a fancied, popular winner. Read someone at the track said you could hear a pin drop when Astute crossed the line in front

Race 11 - EHS Catering at Shelbourne Open 575 Final   (Grade : AA0) Flat 575 Video Available
POS.    TRAP    GREYHOUND    PRIZE    WT.      WIN TIME    BY    GOING    EST
TIME    SP.    GRADE    COMM.
1.    Trap 2    ASTUTE MISSILE
Sire Name: KINLOCH BRAE

Dam Name: CHINA DOLL
€2000.00    71    31.35         Sand    31.35     4/1    A0    EP,CmAg
2.    Trap 5    VIVARO SWIFT
Sire Name: DROOPYS SCOLARI

Dam Name: COOLBEG GEMMA
€500.00    73    31.35    1.5L    Sand    31.45     4/1    A1    ChlBS,DspLd
3.    Trap 1    ARDRAHAN ZINDI
Sire Name: HEAD BOUND

Dam Name: ARDRAHAN ESPRESO
€300.00    69    31.35    nk    Sand    31.47     6/1    A1    Dsp 1,Ck 3
4.    Trap 6    BALLYDOYLE HONEY
Sire Name: BRETT LEE

Dam Name: KILDALLON MAID
€150.00    61    31.35    0.75L    Sand    31.53     6/4    A1    Imp 1,NvShw
5.    Trap 4    TYRUR SHAY
Sire Name: BIG DADDY COOL

Dam Name: BLACK EYED BOSS
€150.00    72    31.35    hd    Sand    31.54     3/1    A1    FAw,Ck 1
6.    Trap 3    GLENQUAIN IVY
Sire Name: TULLYMURRY ACT

Dam Name: DYNAMIC TREND
€150.00    64    31.35    2L    Sand    31.68     20/1    A2    BmpSt,NvShw

Ffs woody the best dog on the night won it is a middle runner like t4

Won well out of t5 at Swindon

I am kicking myself for not backing it after backing it in the QF and SF

But was a good few quid behind on final night and decided against it

But that's been the story of my year

Just accept it and move on, it was the best dog on the night

But not the best dog in the competition

But I tell you one think astute missile in much better dog the salad dodger

Well miss wales

£20 times 5000 is £100k

That's 10 weeks worth

If you were a few quid down ravage, and at that price, it couldn't have done much more harm.

O dear your right

If I would of had on the amount of money I had on it in the SF at 35-1 to 40-1 I would be level for the year now

But as I say if a way of cocking it up I do it or find a way of doing it this year

I'm sure you will return to form.

Maybe

Maybe not

Had 200 quid double

Danzey exception

And astute missile in the QF

Woody moans about astute missile winning the final

How do I feel about it just about leading up in trap 1 in the QF moves off cos it a middle runner not a railer and trap takes it's back legs

Then fails a neck to catch a strong runner off the last

It's a cruel game at times, but I've seen much greater shocks in the Derby final. It was a worthy winner.
Talking of tough luck I just backed that 4 dog in the last at 10.5 to place. 

greater shocks?that was the biggest
priced winner for years.

Regards to an earlier post
Implying that if nobody
  Bets on 8 dog racing it will disappear.!  I may be
Wrong but the Asian market it was meant for ain't going
Anywhere.

penzance    02 Jul 17 21:31 
greater shocks?that was the biggest
priced winner for years.




The price of a dog does not necessarily reflect his chance of winning.

Yes, thought 40/1 too big coz of its faster split than Butt in the semis but thought would have been swamped by Butt and Clares before the bend. Must have been some training performance looking a form before Derby and the fact two lengths quicker than any other winningless run in the Derby, despite third bend bump. Almost a stewards!

You fail to answer the question as to whether there has been greater shocks in the final, woody.

Said, Kinda Ready and Salad Dodger. Biggest shocks I know. Also said, pet hate when big outsider wins greyhound racing's supreme accolade. Would be favourite for Greyhound of Year now! Almost certain cant maintain form shown in final

Will towcester still be here next year

It will NO OFFERS.

do you get free binoculars with racetrack card

A Derby winner is really only the DOG who has Coped with the Slog of the Comp ,and who's trainer has managed to prepare the best the week running up to it

When you Look at the massive Price winners Tartan khan , Allen Gift ,Slippy Blue who I think was available at 20s in the Morning,
Kinda Ready ,Salad ,Missile they are all of Simular Running Styles  Dogs who Stay well enough ..They may not need to find an awful lot in the Final after the War of attrition they have all been through .

4 of the 6 Also Broke a lot better than they had been doing

As For Seamus A man I have Known since his Wimbledon Days ,He can certainly Get a Dog ready

TBH Allens was a Shyte Derby and Final  but still on the Night he was The Dog .

PMSL I FORGOT THE PAGAN ,SAME AGAIN A DOG THAT STAYED OK

if you want to spend a bit of time trying to fathom out what really happened in this derby go to the betfair data site and download the "other data" info for the last six weeks. It reveals for example that you could of backed every dog in every race on bf and still come out winning, that's 378 bets ,  the winner was backed on here at 180's two weeks before the final .

the six runs in five weeks is never a true test  of a greyhound , its a mugfest for the bookies and the stats are there for all to be seen.

the reason i bring this thread up is the comment by miss wales at 15.22

been rumoured a long time doc...tooth fairy economics imo

So hes done at last half a million , thats peanuts to him .....

its more than 10k a week for a year irish...what I heard its over double that and its been open 3.5 years
plus there is the initial investment (which was partly funded by horse race fixture sales but still a cost to the balance sheet)

what I can't work out is why not just keep ploughing the money in if he is that loaded
or is it the realisation that the return just aint ever gunna be there??

harry said when running coventry that he was needing to win on betfair premier league footballers wages every week to cover what that was losing at cov

built in the middle of nowhere what did they expect it was built on far east markets which never took off

if I had a pound for every time I heard that chestnut about the riches from the foreign markets

Like early morning prices wonders. Ficticious.