RIP greyhound racing as we olduns remember it,all down to===

dont build another wimbo and turn out the light because mdm has had enough and dont wanna play any more

you must have been up all night writing that

i don't get your attitude at all mad.dog.man, ok you where big into dogs in 'the good old days' and travelled all over to tracks and bet in big sums, fair enough but all you read on here from yourself is negative against the sport and to be totally honest from what you post on here it makes me believe you don't want the game to ever recover

where they going to get the punters from panda reminds me off hackney a lot off people got plenty out of that

building a new wimbledon wont just be about punters, don't be so down and blinkered mdm

if you have 12 races dogs running round a track you could make profit in a place like that just from the bar no bets struck imo

reimerpysatnaf there used to bbc1 and itv now theres hundreds of channels to watch and a lot of popular sports to go to they offer free admission and only a few turn up nowdays sorry to say but gone forever the racing post boys will still tyr sell greyhound racing only they know any more tracks close down some of them could lose there jobs

czechbet how are they going to spend millions and make a profits please tell me

like any good business

they don't want tons of old tramps down there with holes in there shoes being regular small punters

they want A list people from the capital that spend a grand on a round at the bar, put on a spectacle

do you think Wimbledon can attract those people right now?

at the minute dogs is a laughable cheap night out nobody takes it serious, how could you take anyone to a dog track (Ireland apart)

If you offer people top class facilities and a good night out they will return, that is basically their plan.

a good plan in my book lol

they are pretty much the only people in the sport who are willing to take a plunge and decent punt at the product, and i believe they are getting fair value for what they propose

Offer good racing

Offer great facilities

Offer good food

Offer a range of good quality and well priced drinks

Offer service with a smile

Offer a sport with form that can be explained to a first timer

Offer family deals and get kids involved



It can be done.....All we need is a facility capable and a leader with a vision that knows all of the above can be delivered.

Pipedream!

Have the best races on a Sunday morning or afternoon. Free admission, be able to meet dogs, get involved, get a free ticket for a jackpot, get one of six coloured rosettes for under 12s, top trap wins something so they get a run every race. Get the kennel names out there on the card, rather than race names only. The likes of Steve the commentator at Rommers would get the crowd going.

That may not be perfect but I don't get paid to do it and it took 33 seconds.

33 seconds than the melt above you wants to give it DML

I don't think it's just a pipedream tbh, why does it work over here?

Now i am in no way saying the game is flourishing over here, i'm not going to pretend everything is rosy and attendances have been down and even on weekends where down at SPK for a while but non doggy people still come back time after time.

As an example it would be all of 7 years ago when i was working in a place i got a few of the staff to come into SPK on a Saturday night b4 heading into town, yes it was back in the boom when the place was flourishing but they all enjoyed it and i see them back in SPK [i don't work with any of them anymore] every couple of months on nights out with their mates and partners.

On the other side i perstered one of my mates who worked in SPK to come to Wimbledon one year and he finally agreed the year Tipoki won the Derby, well to say he was absolutely shocked with what he found is an understatement, even after i had told him how bad the place was he was shocked by it and has not travelled over with us since.

So the non doggy people who went into SPK one night where the facilities are good are happy to go back regulary yet the doggy man who was born into dogs, his father was one of the top men in Irish racing will not go back near Wimbledon as the place id a ****. Says it all to me, offer good facilities and a good night out and people will come back.

pf, its easier to get to SP than The Don by a country mile. Location has a lot to do with it. I was happy enough to go Hackney when it was a dive and even when they did it up but shlapping across London to Wimbledon is no idea of fun at all. I wouldn't go if they spent 20 million and it looked like the Ritz

would you watch it on tv dml lol

How do ya work that out DML? I've never understood this. I see no problem with the location and actually think it's a good location with a big catchment area.

I've never ever had a problem getting to Wimbledon and i stayed in Ealing most years, there are loads of tube stations close enough to the track, ya can get a bus to leave ya close enough to the track and a taxi costs sfa from Wimbledon town.

someone told me some old pensioner went up to the bookies at shel park opened her purse and he rubbed all the prices off the board

bore off and go somewhere else and whinge about how the good old days where so great will ya

f..k off yourself big

"YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'VE GOT TILL IT'S GONE"  Please guys just enjoy.

Good to see a debate about the game on here, it makes a refreshing change. The fact is that the game needs television coverage now, as going to the track is just hopeless in most cases. I have also been going Greyhound Racing for some 50 years and the old days are just not coming back. Their is next to no atmosphere at most tracks now and while Romford and a few others may suffer an attendance drop, the sport as a whole can only benefit by the TV coverage. Because of the loss of so many tracks, many people have few options to attend a track even if they wanted to.

33 secs of simple, clear, constructive thinking about greyhounds, gteyhound racing and greyhound people as opposed to churning out all the old marketing jargon that we read every day about every thing.  That's the ticket, DONE. Innovation is what's required, not tired old thinking.

the point is john(lightbulbs)was oxford on RPGTV,the tracks that are suffering are the ones on RPGTV,alright the tracks
get a subsidy from RPGTV,what would happen if they pulled the plug on it,do you really think the tracks would get those
punters back,the simple answer is NO.lack of foresight

skye, greyhound racing needs a bigger audience. Whilst a handful of tracks may lose on track customers, the wider audience provided by the TV coverage is far more important. It is virtually impossible to get a proper market at the majority of tracks.

TV does not supply the markets,betfair does

Dont think RPTV does much for the sport but then I dont think it does anything against it ,that said people were betting a few winners
at Cov and that was soon shifted so that really lets you know who runs the Sport its the high street books ,thus we having derby finals
being run at 9 pm ,the whole concept  sport has changed I went to white city even in its delapitated state it was 10 time better than
any track we have now ,but the game was on the way out then and that was without evening racing and sports on TV ,I was watching henlow
and thinking of the City wtf ,anyone compaining about RPTV should go to their local track you dont have to watch it ,the coverage I find is ok ,but to basically put Henlow on instead of Cov really shows what is really going on ....

spot on case

skye 05 Nov 13 19:52 
TV does not supply the markets,betfair does




Precisely, betfair would not be providing much of a market if it was not televised. You can surely see that.

peterbrough henlow sunderland Romford Crayford trouble galore on the first bend theres so much trouble on the first bend they are thinking of hireing a couple of doormen

casemoney, much of what you say is true, but what alternative do we have in the present time?

Will do Pompey...I am up in the restaurant on Thursday's but rarely make it outside. Last week looked unbelievably dead from my vantage point, but I trust you are still getting by. Incidentally, it is not a criticism of you that the margins are so high (in comparison to betfair or morning prices)...indeed if you left Hove there would not actually be any market at all. I just find it depressing that having had about 15 years of being involved in a fairly vibrant market 3 or 4 times a week, it has now apparently died totally in such a short space of time (and at a track that is superbly run and straight)...thats progress I guess...and there is no way that it is coming back either sadly

Sparrow RPTV is fine mate how can you improve it? All Im saying is what I believe was the fairest track in the
country running wise was removed from our screens ,of course everyone on there is afraid of their own **** to say the
same for fear of losing their job.. Thats Life ...as we know it ,but **** me it must be hard living a lie

Coventry was obviously superior to Henlow, but are we sure it was just the bookmakers decision and not something to do with Findlay.

could be ,think he prob got hump when they pulled meetings not sure tbh ,who knows with harry

Great read this thread, the OP made a great point yet he was abused just for making his views known.

The people who come on here have a wide experience of the game not just about betting, its so refreshing that instead of having tunnel vision about aspects of the game minds have been opened up and a decent dialogue about the game has ensued.

Forget the abuse lads , who needs it ?

I did rush!

Irish*

Sober and nine hours ahead of you bananaman ! ....... make that *light years

I believe the nine hours bit

Just seen this thread.

Well, I am 53 and dog racing was always my second love after the horses. Over the years I had many lengthy periods when I went to every meeting at Walthamstow and Hackney, plus sometimes to Catford, Harringay, Romford and Crayford.

From 1993 to 1995 I even spent two years as a pro dog punter, going nine or ten times a week to the east London gaffs.

I loved the beaten up old Hackney (its death knell was that foolish rebuild and then the big chains seeing their chance to extinguish a track where the form was just so good and where they couldn't beat the clued-up punters).

I loved Walthamstow even more and cried the last night I ever went there, a month before its final meeting - I could not bear to go on the final night.

I have also owned dogs, and had a book published about greyhound betting, and so I do have a pretty qualified view for this thread.

Hence, why did I stop going and will never, ever go dog racing again?

1/ The end of Walthamstow was the final straw.
2/ Too many drinkers and not enough punters.
3/ Today, the over-rounds are totally mad - I still look at what is now my nearest track, Sheffield, and they rarely dip beneath 135%.
4/ After so many years in love with the game, it started to really bother me about how so many dogs have no future once racing is finished for them, and that is quite apart from the puppies who never make the grade.

The game is all but finished and whether there is the comic-strip RPTV or not, it will be gone completely in another 10-15 years at very most.

To be frank, acknowledging the blow it would be to the people who still work in the sport, I sometimes wish it would go now, as it hurts me to see it struggling on as just a terribly, terribly pale shadow of its former glorious self.

This approach pi55es me off tbh

I'm in Australia and there's a greyhound race on every 7 minutes minimum
There's excellent t v coverage , the dogs are well looked after and the prize money is fantastic

What you are meaning to say is "The game is fecked in the U K "

Elsewhere a few decent ideas, a bit of invention and an open minded attitude coupled with a government that realises the income potential of the sport provides a booming game

Now then, look at your society, do gooders rule, animal rights banned fox hunting , you absolute British fools , you now have foxes attacking babies in your houses, primitive beyond belief .

Greyhound racing is not politically correct, so the government  that you voted for hesitate to get involved.
That's the fact of the matter.

Now along comes Pascal, tells you he is willing to finance it, full of good ideas, put good dosh into it .... but the local council , biggest set of non-English snakes in London are about to do an about turn and give out a welcome mat to a football team they deserted twenty years ago and is a pale shadow of the crazy gang cup winners.

That's the situation now mate nothing to do with drinkers/punters/bookies/greyhound welfare .

"Forget the abuse lads, who needs it"







"You absolute British fools"










As stated, the difference between the op sober and pished is unfortunately glaringly obvious.

irishone

Using the topic of dog racing (or the demise of it) to knock the UK generally, as compared to Australia, is a bit blo*dy daft, isn't it?

Yes, the game is 'fecked' in the UK and I stated why I don't go anymore.

'Nothing to do with 'drinkers/punters/bookies/greyhound welfare' - so, you say. Doesn't leave us a lot else to work with, does it?

Well, to fix something you generally look at what is wrong to start with and then act accordingly. IMO, and I think I know enough about it to have a considered view, is that if you don't make betting at the track more attractive - IE more reasonable bookie over-rounds and lower Tote deductions - you are never going to fix things. But without the crowds, that isn't possible so it is a vicious circle.

Sure, let's have dogs on the TV every 7 minutes, let's have better prize money etc. etc. but, in the UK at least, it will all end up like a Ponzi scheme.

How come? Well, you attract newcomers to our tracks and they start to go a bit more and a bit more. BUT, the appeal of drinking at the track will wear off sooner rather than later and they will then notice that they are losing money through their betting - even if it is small amounts.

Once, they realise the latter, they will soon stop going. AND - with 135+% books, they will lose money in all but perhaps the very short-term, guaranteed! Doesn't matter, though, let's just attract some more new people to the game - hence the likeness to a Ponzi scheme.

As for your other insults, well it looks like you were ranting and not thinking through any arguments.

One last thing, BTW. If you really think that any country in the world where dog racing takes place doesn't have an unwelcome amount of dogs 'retired' in less than ideal circumstances, you must be very innocent.

When it comes to animals and cash, humans can be relied upon to look after themselves first - and I am definitely no animal rights 'do-gooder' either. I found good homes at my own expense for the dogs I used to own but I know from first-hand experience that the wastage among retired dogs and puppies who don't make the grade is not acceptable in the modern world.

Signed - An Abosolute British Fool

The books were fine until the BF era. There was money flying about and you could lay a good portion of the dogs - Open racing at least. Okay, I'm a bit anti-exchanges as I feel its done more harm than good but there we are. That said, people will go out every Sat night for a good meal, and the restaurants have to do deals to welcome them in during the week - and often they arent full. Cinemas dont get anybody in during the week...it isnt just dog racing, its the way it is now, and especially after the financial crisis, rising bills etc.

The other thing is that the only people who care are now past it. We are talking with the 40+ generation here, nobody is joining this conversation who is 18-20, like the massive groups on the terraces at Rommers et al when I was that age. We do not count, face it, the game needs to appeal to the younger generation, not just Tina the emailer. How is it doing that? It isn't. And quite honestly, just because we love the sport, punting, dogs are the old camaraderie (it isnt there any more, the only cliques are the rich owners who come across like ****s), does not mean that it appeals to todays 18 year old.

I believe the late opening of betting shops had the most detrimental effect on greyhound racing

bananaman .... always sober here ...

even pisched I wouldn't have gone to town on trying to tell all the golfing forum how Mickelson couldn't win the open !

donemylot and eyeball

Agree with you both and you both beat me to what I was going to say next.

So, what is the solution for dog racing? I am afraid I don't think there is one.

Sadly, not enough of today's younger generations have the attention span and interest to study dog racing form and punt on it accordingly. It is all about a quick fix today with everything and, boy, do we suffer as a nation because of that. Trouble is, when it finally comes on top for the 'live now, pay later' attitude we will all be in the sh*t!

Anyway, by all means let's make dog racing appeal to the younger generations. But that appeal will almost certainly not involve any serious betting and without that the levy suffers. The latter mean less and less money going into the game and so it continues its decline.

Hence, I don't see a way to arrest that decline. When tracks close, the younger generations just find another amusement where drink can still play a big part.

The most crucial point of all, though, is that dog racing has no future unless betting on it is revived in a big way.

Somehow, the horse racing tracks have found a business model where betting is not really important to them anymore - IE Ladies Days etc. etc Dress up and pose about - but dog racing will never have that 'glamour' to fall back on it.

Perhaps the horse racing tracks will eventually find out the hard way that attracting a short-term audience doesn't work long-term but dog racing is already well beyond that point.

All very sad but then Music Hall had its day, as did the Circus and a host of other old entertainments....

donemylot is right about betfair only hope I can see for greyhound racing is get a casino license nice meals slots greyhounds racing racing roulette all cards games the slots will pay 1k a winner for a graded race and also ran £200 each

I agree with you irish - spot on.

The sport died in London due to people relocating the current diverse community have little interest in dog racing ,u get  binge drinking mobs attending on fridays and saturdays,bad but true  publicity regarding greyhound welfare has not helped over the years,
add to that prize money being practically worthless at some tracks wtf would anyone get involved in ownership ?
Agree with Eye evening opening of betting shops another negative ..


Ownership is now for syndicates or people who have a few quid ..
what will probably finnish the game off will probably be the dogs themselfs or lack of,
the amount of litters being bred in this country has dropped dramatically within a year
or 2 I can see there being a shortage of dogs at most tracks ...

ladsbroke and hills would bring a few dogs in from portman park if a dog shortage

As for the exchanges being blamed, that is absolute rubbish. The off course bookmakers have down far more damage. How many tracks have closed that were previously owned by them?
The fact is that many of the older generation would no longer be playing at all if not for TV coverage and the exchanges. I am certainly not going to bet in 135% markets and I also like to play place only and be able to lay.

The organisation which has closed most tracks down has been the Greyhound Racing Association - a fact that always seems to be conveniently forgotten. I'd be interested to see in detail exactly what the "off course bookmakers" have done to kill the sport and close tracks.  So, it is the bookies and old people who have done in the sport of greyhound racing, is it?

We all know about the GRA damage, that will not be forgotten. Off course bookmakers have consistently manipulated the on course markets. You might care to remember Oxford and why Gary Wiltshire was removed from there. As for old people I have no idea what you mean, unless it is their fault for getting old and no longer able to attend whatever tracks are left.

loyal honcho, regarding off course bookmakers and your interest in details. I submit the following submission from a House of Commons debate that took place in 1989.


All off-course greyhound betting takes place on the results of racing at NGRC-licensed tracks. It amounts to more than a £1 billion turnover for the off-course bookmakers. In betting offices the same 10 per cent. deduction is made for a bet on a greyhound as for a bet on a horse. That permits the bookmaker to recover betting duty and levy. Since greyhound racing has no levy, however, that part of the money taken from greyhound punters, supposedly to cover the levy, is not passed on to greyhound racing. The bookmakers keep it and the punters do not know that. In effect, the bookmakers make a levy charge on greyhound punters and keep the proceeds to boost their own profits. Because the bookmakers are able to exploit greyhound punters in that way, it makes sense for them to maximise their greyhound racing betting, which is what they have been doing. Between the years 1977 and 1988 the amount of off-course betting turnover on greyhounds increased from 18 to 27 per cent. of the total. Betting on horses went down from 82 to 72 per cent.

As long as bookmakers are able to charge greyhound punters for a levy that does not exist, the composition of off-course betting will continue to change to the detriment of horseracing and therefore to the detriment of the horseracing levy.

The statutory 8 per cent. betting duty applies just as much to off-course greyhound betting as to off-course horse betting, so the Government have an equal interest in both. But the greyhound betting public is not being protected in the same way as the horserace betting public because greyhound racing has no levy income to help fund veterinary work, or to improve security and dope testing, particularly in the increasing use of steroids. It has no equivalent to the equine research centre or the Racecourse Security Services companies, both of which are funded by virtue of the horserace betting levy. Why should the punter who bets on a dog and pays 8 per cent. to the Government not be protected in the same way as the punter who bets on a horse and pays 8 per cent?

A levy for greyhound racing would provide the necessary financing to improve protection for the public. Annual betting turnover on greyhounds now exceeds £1£3 billion and a levy for the sport similar to the horseracing levy would yield between £10 million and £11 million. It would also remove the bookmakers' incentive to exploit betting on greyhounds at the expense of the horseracing levy.

Many people are now beginning to question the fairness of the present situation, which leaves greyhound racing out in the cold. In the absence of a levy, much thought has been given to some alternative funding mechanism to provide a proper balance between the supplier and the retailer of the betting product. The ideal alternative would have been the control by the greyhound racing and horseracing authorities of the satellite communications company which distributes betting information and live television picture commentaries from the greyhound stadium to the off-course betting shops. But here again there is a marked imbalance. Control of Satellite Information Services Ltd., known as SIS, rests with the 679 bookmakers, who appear to have no intention of relinquishing that control, or of allowing greyhound interests to have any stake in the company.

In the first placement of SIS shares the big four bookmakers took 45 per cent. of the 60 per cent. which were allocated, the Horserace Tote took 5 per cent. and the Racecourse Association 10 per cent. This put the bookmaker in the driving seat during the vital period when the company was being established. The result has been, as we see in the latest announcement relating to the imminent placing of the remaining 40 per cent. of SIS shares, that the big bookmakers are calling the shots once again. They are saying that none of the unplaced shares will be allowed to go to horseracing or greyhound racing, at least until 1992, when there is the vague promise that the company will go public. That means that if bookmakers have their way, racing will have to join the queue for shares with everybody else.

Good research and well done but there is no betting tax now so I'm not clear on your point. I'm always willing to listen and learn though so please explain if I am missing the point. Bookmakers have ALWAYS been involved in the sport TO SELFISHLY MAKE MONEY ( but that's what any business endeavours to do so nothing wrong with that ), but recently, however much we like or dislike it, have ostensibly kept the game alive, at the lower level certainly.  Many people are now employed within greyhound racing, virtue of their presence, and we all know how much they do to sponsor our Classic.  They are massive players in the industry and we should be engaging ( and not alienating ) them and their business acumen/expertise in standing up for the sport with all the politicians who seem ( quietly as well as openly ) hell-bent on dismantling it, namely dog-racing.  Greyhound racing has withstood huge financial stricture and shrinkage in recent years but nothing can survive political opposition allowed to dictate the agenda.  I smell it in the bureaucracy which seems to be swamping the plans for the "new" Wimbledon, and it stinks, and we as an industry seem unable to stand up for ourselves.

My point is that the damage has been done over a number of years and is not something which has suddenly happened. I have to agree that as an industry we have done next to nothing for ourselves and this has enabled the GRA and bookmakers to bleed the game dry. It may have course happened anyway but we shall never know. The younger generation no longer see the sport as a gambling medium and only attend the tracks in stag parties or similar. My last visit to Sheffield saw the bars packed with these people and just a handful outside in the ring. It was soul destroying to watch all this.

a casino license at greyhound tracks is the only way forward get a casino and they will come

I could visualise that being very demoralising sparrow.

I was probably spoilt in the 60s with Clapton, Harringay and the rest, but when I moved to Yorkshire there was some decent crowds and markets here. I used to like Leeds especially but all these tracks no longer exist and going to the tracks now is indeed demoralising, loyalhoncho. People often talk about White City but for me Clapton was something else. 6 Derby winners trained there between 1956 and 1972 and one of the strongest markets you would ever see. At least I experienced something which others will never do.

sparrow Clapton was the first track to show video recordings and replays sparrow my fav track was Hendon only because I live there

One thing I love is when you go in a betting at night to watch the dogs, all of them are empty

All the MUGS that go on the four machines are now plotless have no cash left to throw on these bookies cash cows

It's great the bookies are heading for such a crash in the next 2-3 years in which many shops will shut

mad-dog-man, remember when they introduced the videos around 1966 I would guess. I used to arrive at the stadium half hour before the first race to watch the previous meetings races. Hendon was one of the only London tracks I never went to. I liked the nearby track Park Royal which was one of the first betting shop services.

used to go to Clapton in a ford popular, park royal was in the afternoon when I went

I have been reading your topic with great interest as I have been a regular greyhound punter for sixty years.
Solutions you have suggested have been tried to improve dog racing in Australia for the last twenty years. None have succeeded.

Greyhound tracks in the sixties and seventies had 80 bookies working with crowds of up to 6,000.
ON COURSE BOOKIES HAD CONTROL OF 95% OF THE GAMBLING DOLLAR.
Along came the casinos and the crowds fell dramatically to around 200.
In about twelve months bookies were down to about 6 because of poor attendance.
Lotto was introduced along with the cursed poker machines. Bingo halls came and other forms of legalised gambling.
All in a small space of time the bookies only controlled 5% of the gambling dollar.
Today there is only one bookie at both metropolitan tracks in Victoria australia. Sandown park is the capitol of greyhound racing in aus and they have tried to encourage people back with numerous promotions (like most of your suggestions) WITH NO SUCCESS.
Free admission all year round, good quality cheap meals, promotions like a punters club for twenty dollars a ticket and should the club loses a refund is given. Family nights especially for the kids with free show bags admission, and prizes of six bikes was up for grabs. First class facilities with a poker machine venue on track where more people attend than the dogs.

ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS HAVE FAILED IN AUS, SO WHY WILL IT SUCCED IN UK.

Dog racing is booming in aus with unbelievable prize money succeeded by a business approach, having Sky racing channels of live dog racing throughout the day on about 12 meetings daily. A large portion of tote profits are injected back into racing and bookies including corporate are taxed 1.5% of turnover.

I do believe that the UK owned bookies who have bought out aus bookies have destroyed the gambling for the more knowledgable punter by banning them and only keeping mugs.
On Australian races on course a bookie is compelled to bet the odds to lose a certain amount (racing 5k, dogs 1.5k), or they cane be fined up to 20k ,yet rules for these scumbags, they can bet nothing and you cannot make a complaint.
We have the same problems as you in the UK

BTW

Sandown park dogs will run their Melbourne cup in a couple of weeks for 64 selected greyhounds to compete in eight heats with winners running in final for 250,000 to the winner alone. Total prize money for this event is $500,00.

LUCKY TO BE 1000 PEOPLE IN ATTENDANCE.

Yer if greyhound racing in the UK was just tote betting only and small percentage taking in tax then we would still have like 40-50 stadiums and game would be flourishing, but we all know it's never going to happen.

The games dead it's on the live support machine and the vultures just keep pecking away for any scrapes of meat left on the carcasses.

tote monopoly,you must be jokeing,the atmosphere at the dogs has always been created by the
bookies and the crowd in the ring,can you imagine the conversation,what have you backed john,
had £100 on trap 4 jim,what price did you get,end of conversation.I do speak from first hand
knowledge,first made a book at southall(flapping track,1961)8 bookies ring heaving,plenty of money about.then progressed to hendon,mondays and fridays,betted on the 1st bend,6 bookies,12bookies in main ring,plenty of people and money,had a tic tac,when was the last time
you saw one of those,helping to create atmosphere,then betted on the 3rdbend at wimbledon
5bookies,bookies also on 1st and 2nd and 4th bends and back straight,then you had the main ring
over 40 bookies in all,then went to bletchley,aka milton keynes,was there for45 years until it sadly closed a few years ago,usedto take £1000 arace,also served many years at another track
but packed in when RPGTV started,which originally why i started this forum,i am pleased with the response by people who care about the game,I am not bitter because i have had a good living out of the game,Ijust feel that RPGTVwas the final nail in the coffin,the game overcame mant setbacks
betting tax,opening of betting shops in the evening,prize money not increasing with inflation,6 packers discourageing real dog people from going,RIP sadly

6 packers discourageing real dog people from going

So are you blaming Betfair, RPGTV or 6 packers?

I have to say your above line is almost comical

read it properly i am not blameing 6 packers i said we overcame that problem,but once again i am saying RPGTV is detering people from going to the tracks,surely you must at least agree with that,
which is my main point

Interesting to read that Truthful
I was in Flinders Street Melbourne looking to go to the Meadows
I went in a TAB and asked the counterhand how to get there
He started off by saying "You are joking mate , I wouldn't send anyone to that area"
I said No , I really want to go , I'm interested in seeing the races, love the dogs etc etc
He said "Nobody goes mate, there will only be 50 there at most and its a dodgy area, its a walk from the station etc... save yerself for Sandown Park in a couple of weeks"... FFS
All right I said and stayed in his betting shop, air conditioned, clean, comfortable and still did me bolleaux !

Usual constructive comment from bannahan - well done again.   sparrow, send me a PM with your email - I have something to send which I think you would appreciate.

Will do that, LoyalHoncho. First I have to go to the dreaded new site to do that.

prize money not increasing with inflation

NOR WAGES

just got to get over this good old times bollox

its 2013 inbrace it or die i say

Fattie, we have to get over yesterday at Carrow Road as well.

all over them first half

in the **** mate we have to buy ba as soon as the window opens

and you know my feelings for big sam they aint change a bit

want him gone asap

Don't agree with you about Sam but the transfer window will be vital in January. We must spend money on 2 strikers. Will reserve my judgement until the end of March.

Loyal Honcho, I have sent the PM.

Good man - check your email.  I hope ( and think ) you'll enjoy it.  Be interested to hear from you.

Not having a go here skye but this is what you typed.

6 packers discourageing real dog people from going


If that is nolt what you meant fair enough, but it seems a strange thing to say considering your thread began by blaiming RPGTV?

Either way no drama

The gargoyle foetus has developed another brain cell 

LoyalHoncho, email received and thank you. I will email back later with my thoughts.

blame the GBGB
They have made the cost of ownership to expensive.
More young folks getting into the game at flapper tracks than GBGB tracks.

Of course it may be that we are all talking shyte. WE mixed with punters, whether in the shops or on the terraces, we lived the game. We didnt ask our mate who was a manager at Rumbelows (!!lol) whether he was into the dogs etc etc. It may be that it has naturally died out. The problem is that there would still be punters on the terraces if they could only play ep's and with the track bookmakers. What happened to the ring at The Stow when they banned Betfair, or tried to? You could see it with your eyes. What happened in shops when the Crayford mob sat there with the i-phone playing and laying a **** book? I NEVER EVER saw that in fifteen years or so of regular greyhound racing all round the country. Yes, you could see the game was fading away but HOve was packed every major event whatever the night and the ring was half-decent.

It is my firm belief that RPGTV would not have needed to exist, whether funded by 'rip-off' bookmaker firms or not, if the exchanges had not wiped out the majority of money from the tracks. People lose the will to travel. Perhaps they couldn't nowadays - I certainly could not get from work to Reading/Hove/Posh etc before the first race like I used to - but when the ring is dead (witness Tony Byerley taking a score a race on a Friday night)why go? Therefore I can see RPGTV as the start of a resurrection of interest in the game, but at the risk of repeating myself, where is the appeal for anyone non-doggy to tune in for 4 hours?

Anyway, we'll have this same conversation next year, but I'll have probably chucked it all in by then anyway

at the end of the day if the products good people will come if its a **** hole no one bothers you need good facilites simply as that

Not that simple panda in my view.  Ask any football fan what he'd prefer - sparkling new stands, heated seats, comfortable bars etc; etc; or a decent team on the park.  Only one answer and it's not the good facilities.  We have fallen asleep and the world has changed, to our detriment.  Firstly, politicians ( and the do-gooders who rattle their cages )don't want greyhound racing or anything associated with it, and sadly, I believe we are about to ( very painfully ) find that out.  Our PR has been ripped to shreds over the last two decades consequently, new generations don't want to touch "the dogs" and, because their parents weren't interested either ( where did we pick up our lifelong passion for the game?, it is never talked about within their households/lives.  I looked up GBGB the other day and a menu item caught my eye - "Key Personnel", so I looked it up.  It featured ONE PERSON, and that was Maurice Watkins - Chairman.  You ever heard of him?  I haven't.  Ever heard reports of him lobbying anyone in Parliament or Merton Council about the issues surrounding the future of greyhound racing or the future at Wimbledon?  I haven't.  Ever seen him leading an initiative of any kind, to publicise, promote, market and sell greyhound racing?  I haven't.  One "key personnel" we have within our sport, if GBGB is to be believed, and he is so invisible as to be known to none of us.  With leadership like that what chance does any industry have?

where did we pick up our lifelong passion for the game?, it is never talked about within their households/lives.

No idea. My Dad hates/ed gambling. I was taken along by a friend's father once and got hooked. Maybe it was the oioi-ing on the terraces, maybe it was that I thought the 'form' could be studied (I quite liked that). Maybe it was because I was a gambler in my blood and there was little else to bet on in the evenings - don't really know.

If I had my youth again, would I rather be at the dogs (where I had many splendid years) or gigging in North London, or actually socializing away from gamblers? Sorry to say but yes. I would, of course, take the odd leisurely night out but that is pretty much it I reckon

I picked it up from my dad.  My mates picked it up from theirs and we reinforced it by getting together and going!  The tracks tolerated us - we were too young really - as long as we were sensible and thus the future customers were nurtured and developed.  The excitement was magic, there in your-face type stuff, and as we learned we moved along with and grew into the sport.  That's gone forever!  We live in a world dominated by TV, the internet and on-line activity, so turnstile income will NEVER recover.  Of course at Derby meetings and other big meetings the crowds will come but the bread-and-butter of attending the dogs is about done.  Somehow we need to tap into that in a revenue way but I think we've missed the boat! I don't know where we go from here but, without a clear plan from those who effectively run the sport, we'll go nowhere.

LH - and you never took a smartphone to the terraces.

No, I haven't.

loyal i dont understand what footabll has to do with this, i have 2 local pubs near me that i spent a lot of time in 10 years ago then went in them a few years ago and all that was left was a few diehards and drunks no atmosphere no real food to speak of and very run down then 1 shut and the other had a total makeover serving proper food and lovely decor with a kids part an its packed every weekend and the atmosphere is buzzing and very busy in the week and has been for the last 18 months since its been redone just goes to show things happen if you put effort in ,by the way my local track is swindon and that in terms of decor feel good factor is horrible and i just cant bring myself to take me my family or friends near the place, also been to monmore a dozen times and that got a realgood buzz about the place always packed and must be making good money who cares if its all graded or all opens doesnt matter ppl will come if the product and place is good

I get your enthusiasm panda and respect it.  If this thread proves anything it is how passionate we all are about greyhound racing, which is terrific.  Personally I've never taken my "family" to a dog track in my life and I have little or no interest in doing so.  I've taken individual members of my family, when the situation and time was right, but wife and kids as a group - naw.  To be honest I don't know how many people would want to either.  I might be wrong.  However, Ireland enjoyed a bit of a boom a few years back when many of their stadiums and facilities were refurbished and updated but as far as I can make out it hasn't maintained that initial boom - maybe someone from Ireland could comment.  My point is that there is a massive amount of revenue generated by OUR product, which is greyhound racing, and the gambling generated from it, which simply evaporates and is never seen again by the industry.  Bookmakers and Betting Exchanges are coining it in, virtue of on-line betting on dog racing, and precious little of it finds it way back in, to pay the wages of kennel staff, or the expenses of trainers, or the refurbishment of stadiums, or the replacement of equipment, etc, etc, etc.  That's what needs sorting out first, in my opinion, and that's what I am saying.  Bookmakers at least are involved in bags and sponsoring major races - for which we should we appreciative - but the likes of our current host, who at present put nothing into greyhound racing, need persuaded to do so.  That means leadership, not redecorating a bar or restaurant, and at present, sadly, we don't have any.

You are of course correct about betfair no longer contributing to greyhound racing, loyalhoncho. This is a great pity and the present board should be ashamed instead of blaming other offshore bookmakers for doing the same. Prior to this they were making a contribution of some £800,000 last time and they have now lowered themselves to the level of those other offshore bookmakers. I can remember when betfair teamed up with Eurosport for a few months to sponsor racing at Sittingbourne on Sunday evenings. But that was some 8 to 10 years ago when the board was far more enlightened.

reading this brings back many memories.

but in my opinion the real reason for the decline of our great sport is down to progress and technology

in my early days of gambling betting shops close 1/2 hour after the last race (they did not open for night racing)
there was no such thing as the internet (sport on tv your having a laugh)
mobile phone f-c me my grandma would think aliens had landed,

so you ended up paying a visit a dog track
guess what you found a winner(go on bobby)my first winner at a dog track,
now you where hooked a prisoner for life,
for some you progressed to ownership,

but at the end of the day technology/progress took over,
and crowds started to decline,

promoters/bookies wanted to protect profits hence prize money down
book %up, spend money on facilities(what and make less profit)

think about it how many kids even know how to play these days,
they spend there time on the phone texting/playing comp games or the computor itself,

when was the last time you saw a bogie/hoola hoop/many kids dont know what it was like to go round collecting wood for a bonfire,
how many times did you answer the door last week to kids asking for a penny for the guy
carrol singers(they do that in church dont they)

do they realy still play cards/dominoes in the tap room of your local
no sorry for me progress has a lot to answer for,

is it good or bad?
sorry to say but for greyhound racing at the present time
it is f-c-ing disasterous

That's a pretty close account of the history of greyhound racing in the UK.....

......  fortunately its not the same in the rest of the world !

The Exchanges have totally ruined Greyhound & Horse racing, especially on course...Plus any of the older gang who remember the old days, could'nt possibly be interested in the present day Dross, which in my opinion is a total Bore.

being honest I do watch sky and rpgt but I would not go if someone paid me you cant get on so why go

7-2 track or 5's + the machine ill take the machine all day long.

When I do attend, I am always on here via my phone.... Hardly ever play with the books.

Don't see why anyone would take unders on any price