Woody - Shelbourne

lee h2

I thought the atmosphere was better than it has ever been and particularly enjoyed Farloe Warhawk's magnificent run.

The racing was pretty damn good but the value was very thin on the ground. However compared to Harolds Cross the night before, the books were playing Santa Claus.

We don't even try and get a drink nowadays until after the last and they shut the bar at midnight for some reason, so even that got pretty hectic.

It's not a patch on Derby Final night at Wimbledon though.

I enjoy it every time i go Lee. My only dislike is there's nowhere really to sit down until towards the end. Probably not possible, but would like to see more seating for old fogeys like me! .

Some tremendous performances on the track, making the trip well worthwhile.

I went for coffee the race before the final lost my place on the stands, so i ended up with a bit of room on the terraces near the 550yds Derby start but the atmosphere was more subdued down there. The winning line is up the home straight, so we didnt know if Puma had got up or Cougar held on, no nearby screen.

Didnt and wouldnt bet at the track. They seemed to be docking best early prices. Future Boy, God, Razl Apollo and Snow results didnt go my way, so the night and the Derby as a whole, proved an expensive business.

Still probably hoping to go back for the meeting December 1st though.

PS, all those Irish lads knocking back all that Guinness made the crammed pubs in Temple Bar smell not too sweet, if you know what i mean!

what out of interest guys were BF prices for warhawk and maestro? easily and continuously available on course warhark 4/5 and maestro 4/6

lee h2, agree class atmos and racing. packed but not uncomfortably so.

re facilities before racing the ground floor sit in/take away 'cafe' restauramt had massive queue, but I went as race 2 finishing and there was no queue

re bars, for next time, if you go up one flight of stairs to formal restaurant floor and use the main bar there, set back 5 metres, easy, we used it three times and never a queue, anyone can use it. The main ground floor bar from what I could see was 10 deep all night

dunno about warhawk but i put mnoney uo to back Sparta maestro at 1.83. I only got some of it matched so tha must have been the top price.

there was no money on betfair all night, unless you bet in pennies

Sep 11, 2012 -- 2:43PM, MALAY wrote:

there was no money on betfair all night, unless you bet in pennies

correct

nah most of the races were ok.

I got 120 on tibetean sky at 2.74 and bigger.

100 north bound at 3.25

and I laid 100 usual story at 3.4!!!
and 75 another in that race at 3.0

the markets weren't massive but they were much better than the Hegarty mafia!!!

ok, cheers guys

what I would say about Ted Heg is that for a long time he was the only one that took 4/5 on warhawk, and he appeared to take loads of bets (dont know quantum of money) and he stood there taking it for some mins before wiping it off. after a few mins some of the others (prob 30 books there)went in and out 4/5. and Ted went again.

based on the best being 8/11 in the books earlier in the day, albeit shower.com flashed up 5/6 for a moment before going, I thought that was decent price imo for Warhawk in T1 with decent first trial under his belt and against far less experienced pups..similar with Maestro position. obv I could not compare to BF as did not have phone on, and some of the other prices were not good e.g power of god 7/4 open, then 6/4 etc, but by and large for the few big guns races I thought the books were ok, certainly against the firms anyway

at least hegarty will lay a decent bet............try getting anything on with off course books

yeh NGU, was like being at the horses, most of 30 odd there took good wedges...totally different to going dog in UK now, what were there at Don derby this year 4 bookmakers? and take 200 and change the price and they all follow

yeh NGU, was like being at the horses, most of 30 odd there took good wedges...totally different to going dog in UK now, what were there at Don derby this year 4 bookmakers? and take 200 and change the price and they all follow

dont know where your getting the 30 book's from,i can only think of 8 or 10

12 i think

perhaps they put additional on for final night

There are 9 Bookies Standing in Spk at the moment,(9 sat night as well)
B Barry,
E Hegarty
Y Barry
F Finnigan
S Farrell
Ted Hegarty
JP Moran
S Mulvaney
Tadgh Hegarty

the doc ?

packed it in about a year ago.

Sep 11, 2012 -- 11:18PM, 4 In A Row wrote:

packed it in about a year ago.

ah ok,he obviously didnt get a buyer for his pitch then ?

no amazing really, was a good pitch

remember seeing the 2 pitches of his advertised in the r post

did jim mc cann ever get a buyer 4 his ?

I think Jim sold his pitch to Chronicle, who lasted about 2 years.

Sep 11, 2012 -- 11:29PM, 4 In A Row wrote:

I think Jim sold his pitch to Chronicle, who lasted about 2 years.

ah,yes,remember now.thanks

There were 10 or 11 books on Saturday.

Look at the SP returns - most races were 130% ish.

unnacceptable - No wonder you can get a lump on at those odds

Only 4 books at Wimbledon but there returns were excellant (around 115%)

Dont go spoiling PF's holiday now Lee!

the best prices available at different stages on track and the s.p returns are two completely different things

Yes, you and PF of the same ilk NGU. Dont think the prices fluctuate that wildly though and you would have to go in at precisely the right moment, are you and PF Mystic Meg's boys? .

SP is supposed to be the farest overall guide after all bets struck. At Belle Vue, you can sometimes get what they call fair odds, so if it drifts you get a slightly bigger payout.

If you say Saturdays Shelbourne Park books at biggest prices on all 6 dogs is greater than than the 130% return, so it would have been better at Wimbledon's 115% over-round also!

so farloe returned at 4/7.............63.63%...................but everyone could have got 4/5.....55.55%............the s.p returns mean nothing

NGU

I wrote down most of the price changes on Saturday. They didn;t fluctuate massively.

This wasnt the puppy derby at HX =young dogs no form, unexploded bombs = 135% acceptable

The books had all the early morning prices to check against. Nearly all exposed dogs. Lots of form and a massive betting crowd.

130% is frankly very bad, and I have emailed the SP management so they are aware.

surely sp means just that the starting price ie what was on the board when the race went off?

never give up     12 Sep 12 13:36 
the best prices available at different stages on track and the s.p returns are two completely different things


100% correct

Sounds very like county colours and his defence of the scandal in Limerick.

never give up     12 Sep 12 13:36 
the best prices available at different stages on track and the s.p returns are two completely different things.

Of course that is 100% correct but it is not the point. If the bookie is shorter on one, he should longer on another. You cannot run around and pick the best prices that happened to appear at any particular point and say this is more indicative of the betting. If the SP is slightly flawed that is one thing, but you most certainly cannot put up a defence that such as that posted above.

Sep 13, 2012 -- 12:52AM, Bassanio wrote:

Sounds very like county colours and his defence of the scandal in Limerick.never give up     12 Sep 12 13:36  the best prices available at different stages on track and the s.p returns are two completely different things.Of course that is 100% correct but it is not the point. If the bookie is shorter on one, he should longer on another. You cannot run around and pick the best prices that happened to appear at any particular point and say this is more indicative of the betting. If the SP is slightly flawed that is one thing, but you most certainly cannot put up a defence that such as that posted above.

nobody can defend what is happening in the ring in limerick...............but  i maintain the s.p returns means absolutely nothing

lee h2

Bet you had loads of friends at school.

Firstly you complained to the Gambling Commision because Sheffield asked you to leave for using a device to arb while stood in front of a bookmaker. What became of that? NOTHING.

Now you have emailed someone about the SPs at Shelbourne on a Derby night. You know what will come of that? The same.

How can sp mean absolutely nothing? Those are the settled prices after all bets have been struck?! Youre right, slightly better odds may have been available but only marginally. Warhawk was 4/5 for ages, bookies tried to stand it but couldnt, i saw 4/6 at the off steady, no idea why it was returned 4/7, was it? But that isnt what normally happens for 12 races! A dog can shorten or drift, it's very hard to predict and points of better odds being avaiable is no excuse for 130% books on a night like that!

Alot of the problem is how the PS is returned.

Some tracks, when the Sporting Press dont return the price, go the best price on the boards (Most tracks only having 3)

When the Sporting Press are there, its best price on 2 boards. So someone could be 6 and not getting any takers and the other 2 5 and they would return 5

Maybe in Ireland its the price on most books, I dont know; but even the returning of SPs isnt consistent

Agree with that Rumpole. Some of my former colleagues became sp men and wanted me to get trained up, but i declined. Didnt fancy running from Kinsley to Sheffield to Wolverhampton and back to Belle Vue etc. I know it is a fine art and important job because so much money is settled on bets off-course. Dont know the precise workings but do know a bit more goes into it than you would imagine and decisions like the actual sps, joint favs etc have to be made

Woody

Not at a dog track when theres 3 books. My 11 year old can do it to the same criteria as the SP men do.

Hey Rumpole

If your happy betting at 135% - then good luck to you.don't complain.

If you're happy going to Sheffeld (where they are the worst books in the country) and dont want to bet on your phone = again good luck to you - you must be a very happy man!!

Personally I want to get the very best price I can get - whether thats with an on course book or on the phone.
I think getting better prices is good! - but if yo u don;t, well im not here to persuade you


Good Luck

Sep 13, 2012 -- 8:38AM, woodmanchester wrote:

Agree with that Rumpole. Some of my former colleagues became sp men and wanted me to get trained up, but i declined. Didnt fancy running from Kinsley to Sheffield to Wolverhampton and back to Belle Vue etc. I know it is a fine art and important job because so much money is settled on bets off-course. Dont know the precise workings but do know a bit more goes into it than you would imagine and decisions like the actual sps, joint favs etc have to be made

a fine art?????????all u need is a pen

Interesting book last night at Shelbourne

4/5
4/5
3/1
3/1
3/1
3/1

It is misleading as well as Ted was 1/2 the Larry Dunne dog right up to the off when he was 1/1 & 4/5 Jimmy Barry's.

The flip side is that Ted was simply avoiding the Dunne money and nobody was punting at that price.

The only dog that was laid was Droopys Carl and Ted laid plenty of it from the owner and a few others.

I don't think another dog was punted in the race and certainly not with either Ted or Barry while Farrell just shouted a bit as usual and was generally ignored by a Wednesday night crowd that would know him.

what about hachiko..........improved 28 lengths last nite

They were called in after that - Another Phoenix Paddy.

He was the only one for money in the race as well so they knew what they were at.

Quite a good A5 comp!!

PJ did not really fancy his two bitches and said they were very green and mainly for breeding. No dogs in that litter either. I thought the first of the two ran very well though and will improve a lot.

Maybe sp returning is quite simple but i still reckon it's a big responsibility. When i've spoken to sp return men, i've heard contradictions, you've got to be confident what youre doing, or youre out of a job!

I remember at York or Donny races once. I said to Johnny Broadway if you had returned those top two joint favs i would have won the placepot. They could have been joints to my mind, but dont think he was too happy.

woody.....serious.....shut up mate. it really really really isnt hard, but truth of it is, youll do well to find one that will give the punter a chance. benefit of doubt will always go in books favour, cos if they are losing, theyll ask questions, like why the lad returned 7/2 when it was either that or carpet. them boys want it everyway they can have it, this is no different, its honestly not a science.

Addy_D • September 14, 2012 9:17 PM BST
woody.....serious.....shut up mate.

.............. for a second there ....i thought it was just me

in the nicest possible way of course

I'll put a sock in it then!