Memories of Harringay

I vaguely remember the bookie getting killed in a car crash on the way home from Cheltenham.If its the man Im thinking of I think Jim The Ratcatcher worked for him.Billy Chandler,the oldest of the brothers got killed in a car crash on the way home from Salisbury.That was before the war,he was married to a girl called Elise who was in the West End show Anything Goes.

Fantastic thread gentlemen. I've taken the liberty of borrowing a selection of your memories and compiling them into a wee record to go along with other local history stuff we curate on Harringay Online (including some old stadium pics). I hope you'll see this as flattery and not half-inching. It's not for commercial use - just a group of folks who are passionate about Harringay's history.

By the way I wrote the Harringay Stadium article on Wikipedia plus all the other Harringay articles on Wikipedia.

You can see the collection of your memories at http://www.scribd.com/doc/35547815/Highlights-of-Memories-of-Harringay-Stadium. If I failed to credit anyone correctly, please let me know and I'll correct the document.

Okay, that seems to be cutting off half the url. Let me try again. Go the this page and select the obvious article - http://www.scribd.com/harringayo Failing that just Google Harringay Online, but I'm afraid you have to join up to see beyond the front page. I was trying to offer you all a version without the need to do that.

Heres one for you Whitmarsh do you remember - Prince Lawrence the hurdler from New Cross, New Year Hurdles, Haringay two years on the trot. Spotless O'Leer, Adstock, Spider Hill,

I think the most thing I remember about Haringay was the drive back if you worked at the kennels, one night in particular one cold winter back in the 60's they had stopped all the traffic going up the big hill to Potters Bar from Cockfosters, as there was a lorry stuck in the snow, the vehicle I was in, was stopped and said to police two vans coming through with greyhounds on board they cant be left here, we got the go ahead  and we waved them through, drivers foot to the floor (i think) - got the vans straight to the top and safely back to the hook.  with an almighty cheer from the staff. Those were the days.

as if everything about the place was great and then to cap it all off they added a jacket potato wagon on the cold winter nights, luvly jubly

Found this on the Pathe site; a Miss Greyhound 1968 concluding with film of the tote operators at Harringay, and the track. Who knows the Tote ladies?

In relation to Harringay, can anyone remember the betting shop at Manor House where the boardmarker used to write up results in Olde English script? It was very hard to read and a lot of punters who probably couldn't read anyway were totally flummoxed. He was very fast chalking up. I just wish I'd had a camera to take a picture.

I used to work there in late 70's early 80's.....the boardman then was Tony , a mauritian guy but I don't remember any olde english script....

The link did not come out, I'll try again.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=73158   
Good views of the track: at the end.

renember them playing max bygraves records over the tannoy and this was the mid 80s

Not a Harringay regular,the odd night with either Freddy Sabini or Alf Nathan  and some Sat afternoons when the racing was frosted off,recall getting there one night after a bad day at Newmarket,working for about a tenner,had an 1100/400 the first winner with Tom Jenkins who was betting behind us...who the bloody hell are you he asked....anyway he would only have taken about 100 quid on the race so wasnt best pleased...I did thousands of pounds of business with John,we worked well together,it was a shame he fell out with Aaron,who was a friend of mine,so we drifted apart...a bit..dont blame either of them,it just got out of hand

"celticgr".........I was at Huntingdon when the incident occured with Aaron. Whatever justification there was, Aaron was an elderly man.

Mick Harvey told me,over ten years ago,that he had bumped into Aaron who was working as a car park attendant in Harrow.

remember itv showing races on saturday had a retired racer who took notice of the tv when the dog noises came from the traps and the hare was running.he defo heard the click of the trap release.

Mr M
I was there that day also,recall Bill Dent rushing out...I must have been driving Aaron...there was a dispute over the dog derby and a bet,John was out of order,but he got all hotted up,and regretted it I am sure,the consequences were bad for him after,it took some diplomacy to stop it becoming worse,we never fell out but it just wasnt the same.
Aaron never recovered and things spiralled as they do,he did indeed end up working in a car park in North Harrow,my Dad used to drive over and see how he was and probably give him a few quid...the weird thing is Aaron called me last week,I was at a Spurs game,so hard to understand,but the bottom line was things were still not great,now living in what sounded like a bad area...I had better try and find out if he is ok and see if I can do anything..we hadnt been in touch for 15 years
I assume you know his brother Billy...I remember their Dad,sitting outside his house playing dominoes in Harrow Weald...there were a few racing guys from the same area..the name Sid Jacobs comes to mind also,he popped up after a few years away at White City for a while

"celticgr"............Billy Dent gave me a ride to Huntingdon that day & I was standing outside the refreshment room as he came out saying "I saw nothing"
If you drove Aaron, you must know my racecourse companions......Jimmy Green, Billy Dent, Charlie Wilson,"Barney" & Mick Harvey.

Mr M
Indeed I do,Jim is very closely related,very!
My first dog job was with Mick,circa Tartan Khan at WC...Denty was always really helpful right from the start,seem to recall he was a junior football club manager in Headstone Lane...

Barney was with the blower,and I often gave him a ride back from Ludlow or the outer regions....think he thought we went too fast,as we did it in about 1 3/4 hours back to Denham,we had Nick Hutchins in the car...the dogs must have been on so it was a big double...Mick has vanished,would love to be able to speak to him and give him an update..and check how he is.

"celticgr"...........I think that I have placed you....I deserve a medal.

It is strange about Mick.....I called in on Steve at Pinner Green just before the takeover & he had not heard a word since his last day at Bushey.

The last time that I rang Jim, he was not too clever.

Very funny...will have one engraved later!

This whole thread came out of a fluke,was trying to get some interest for Jim in names and places,things that happened and so on...it worked the other night and was very lucid...he had an op in Northwick Park on Monday and a blood transfusion on Tuesday,so is a bit all over the place....give him a bell,he maybe be kipping(not at all him)or leave a number and I will make sure he calls back,I pop over every day as do the rest
Had a chat with Albi.....he is amazing,doesnt sound any different,our game got some bad press but the people in it were genuine decent people,he is still nipping out for a bit of good nosh,so promised I would pick him up one day soon
As for Mick...its weird indeed,not a word or clue...honestly

Remind him of the fun that we used to have on the landings at Ascot........he put me in one afternoon to have a sizeable bet with one of the firms.
I made out the slip & gave it with the cash to a young employee. He looked at it & went straight to the phone, rang the Office & I heard him say "a stranger wants £xxxx on a horse" One their older employees said "that isnt a straxxxx" & choked on his words as he realised that it was his money that I was putting on for him.

I will make contact over the weekend. My wife had surgery last Autumn over the same problem as Jim........she is having her follow up treatment at Mount Vernon.
I am still having difficulty in coming to terms with things & use this Forum as a form of distraction & theraphy.......it helps.
When you meet up this evening, give my best wishes to "the best putter on in the business" as Peter would say.
Jim is familiar with my nom de plume.

I will I promise,we just spoke and he is very tired...my best wishes with your wife,he went up to Mount V a lot,Dr Aneyamani....but Chris has had him everywhere(funny enough Billy Dent had him all over the shop with his migraines)lets hope your wife gets the best treatment but mainly the result....the carer it seems to me often gets forgotten

Peter who btw....Peter O?

Are you sure he knows the nom de plume?is there another clue I can give him....please

Glad this forum has or is helping,I rarely bet these days,only on golf,which with 160 runners makes it easy...its something to watch on a Sat/Sun night..long past my party every night days..in fact the dog taking me for a walk is about it...the business keeps me busy thankfully....

I of course appreciate you getting in touch,this computer thing may have killed the game but has some uses

"celticgr"................Yes....the inscription was wrtten on the flyleaf of the signed copy of his book.

I used to see a lot of Jim in Micks Office at the shop where he used to call in almost daily.............Sometimes we would go out to redeem betting slips from shops on double yellow lines or where Jim had carefully had the bet with the relief manager & did not want the regular man to know who had had the bet.

I also gave him the odd box of extra large eggs from our local farm.

"celticgr"... Albie Parsons will know my name. I used to lend him my members badge at Sandown for a Saturday when he was working for Kiki. I would go round & pick it up from Northolt.

When he retired, "Rocky" copped for the badge.

I thought some people might be interested in reading this great thread again or for the first time.

Made me lol some post good times . Nice to read about joe booth without dought the best man to put a lead on a greyhound
Harringay was such a good gallop fair to all .

Was Obie Dyer the bookmakers real name?..I remember one night a particular punter.. worse for wear rushing down the steps from the Panarama Bar to the main ring..totally out of control with the "good thing" in mind and fell flat on his face in front of Obie's pitch. Quick as a flash Obie laid evens he would not get up.

I remember 'Obie', the pitch allocator at lots of Southern Horse racing tracks. To see him at a big meeting like Glorious Goodwood, strutting up and down the lines; a virtual 'Pied Piper' with a trail of Bookies awaiting their turn to grab the best pitch!  I did not know his name, but assume that Dyer could be correct, and we could allow some licence for 'Obi'!

Sad thing about this thread is that I personally haven't seen anything from Mr Memory or Whitmarsh for a while. I hope it's only bercause they've given up Betfair; such mines of interesting historical information.

A lovely thread, such a terrible shame that Mr.Memory and Whitmarsh no longer post, who without doubt were the sages of the forum. I fear the sands of time have taken their toll on them both.

Agree slippy, the two White City threads were also classics.

expat/slippy

I used to love their threads as well, especially the new cross thread. Sat many a night with a bottle of red reading it

not much of a dog fan myself (although the other half would disagree if we were talking about the ex) although used to go to Teesside Park races and if I won nip over to the dogs.

went to Wembley once the year playschool won the Hennessey at Newbury, other than that been a few times Sunderland dogs on a Friday night.

sparrow

I also was there when Granog Bet won the Oaks

She was the best bitch I ever saw

I think she was ante post fav to win the Derby if I remember right

The first and second bends needed banking as they were far to tight

seaside, Cranog Bet certainly was a great bitch. I was at Clapton when she broke the track record in the Scurry Cup. That record was never broken.

Sparrow

Do you remember a dog 'Greek Lady' ?

Run in the Oaks if I remember right and went to Clapton for a long Distance Com

They all said this will not stay

I know it won every race at Clapton by miles

I think Clapton was one of the first tracks to have nets put over the track so people could not lob something on it

For people who don't know there bends were also banked.

Stan Barratt a local bookie bought a graded dog called Glenochill Boy, renamed it Lucky BoyBoy. Backed itat odds of a 100 to 1 downwards it won the greyhound Derby at 2to 1. I think Dave Basset trained it. Paddy keane was also at Clapton the same time who trained Buckwheat which Barry Dennis discussed on another thread.

seaside, Can't say I remember Greek Lady. My time there was all in the 60s.
mandown, Are you sure Paddy Keane trained Buckwheat. Also in that famous race at Dagenham was the very popular Clapton bitch Handsome Lass. Bassett did train Lucky Boy Boy. Another great was Lucky Hi There trained by Jimmy Jowett at Clapton who won the 1964 Leger.

Anybody see the race between the Cheeter and Grayhound that took place at Harringay

Maybe Whitmarsh's might know if he is still around.

He might have passed on.

Anybody know ?

Here you are, seaside.

The industry faced a similar crunch in the 1930s, when the enthusiasm for going to the dogs was, in fact, going to the dogs. Promoters were faced with a glut of venues, including some recent purpose built stadia, and not enough punters to fill them. Novel entertainments were introduced including motocross, speedway, stock car racing and amateur athletics.

As exciting as these attractions were, surely none could compare with the spectacle unleashed on Londoners on 11 December 1937. It was a Saturday night and Romford Stadium was packed. It had rained heavily days running up to the event, making the going particularly heavy. The race card featured three additional races and there was palpable excitement in the air. The promoters had blended the best of greyhound racing, the zoo and the circus to develop the cheetah races.

Surely the speed, athletic grace and sheer exotic danger of the racing cheetahs would make this a winning proposition. The promoters had high hopes; they had invested heavily in the scheme and would stage races at both Romford and Harringay.

Greyhound racing not exciting enough ... By AngMoKio (Own work) [CC-BY-SA-3.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0) or GFDL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html)], via Wikimedia Commons

And the initial crowd response and press attention seemed promising. In the first race involving a cheetah, a female called Helen was instantly proclaimed ‘Queen of the Track’. The Times reported that: “Helen raced against two greyhounds but did not appear to like their company a great deal, for she left them far behind and made them look slow. She covered the 355 yards in 15.86 seconds, easily a track record, and at a speed of 55mph.”

The crowds were astonished, and the article went on to report that: “Most people had never seen a cheetah. At first people were apprehensive, but the moment the trap opened they were amazed by the flash of the cat. They were just so fast and, if you looked round all the mouths were open.”

Apparently these races also took place at Harringay.

Thanks for that Sparrow

What a sight that must have been

Wonder what odds the Cheetah was in the race

Broke my heart when I went pass Harringay a few years back to see it now

Sparrow. Just to add my liitle bit to this great thread. I think Buckwheat was trained by Charlie Smoothy. A great stayer who holds the 770 yards track-record at New Cross and its not likely to be beaten now !!!

Wasn't a regular to Harringay but do remember Harrys Oppo who I think beat the mighty Yellow Printer there one night and the marathon bitch Kingdom Come.

Green Pride, I think you was right about Charlie Smoothy. I knew all Keane's dogs then and was pretty sure he never trained Buckwheat.
Yellow Printer was a winner of the Irish Derby, trained by Bassett at Clapton.

Yellow Printer was one of the fastest dogs ever to race

I think I am right in saying the speed which he run at one time has never been beaten

I have the figure of forty odd mph in my mind ( could be wrong )

Such a long time ago now

Seaside I thought super Rory  held fastest dog own by friend of my father . never try to find out sure someone has both fast Hounds

You could be right there Super Rory was also a very fast dog

I think he went around White City in something like 28.60 odd

So many years ago now

I am lucky to say I saw both dogs race

Both favs to win the Derby at one time

When white city close I think that was darkest day for dog racing  . The derby was so good you would get a good crowed for pre derby trials . The best in Ireland came over it was the hardest race to win only the best dogs made the final
Dolores rocket strong bitch patricia hope beat super Rory came back to win again after going to stud even try to win. Third .
Tartan khan look a lucky winner to beat the great myrtown but won the st leger own by a lovely man d law very fast Ballinska band in 6 hard to lead.  lacca champ will always remember his first race we had a fast dog racing manger rings up do you want to run your dog on weds joe booth had one in there but we thought we can beat him didn't no the dog in 5 ran as brads boy was lacca champ he went off at 9/2 won by 7l ran second next year to sarahs bunny with the fast desert pilot behind
Had a runner in the last white city derby went out in 1/4 final behind the great whisper wishes lucky enough to Have a winner on the last derby night at white city

question about the legendary punter les swaby was his main era at Harringay 1950s or 60s.Also was the sixties much different to the fifties in terms of bookmakers turnover and or attendances.

Noflapleft

You came up with some great dogs there everyone I am happy and lucky to say I saw run.

In my opinion the dogs you have named would have beaten every dog around in the last twenty years

A man would be hard pressed to pick a winner from them

I loved going to the derby heats and trying to pick a winner for later rounds

Saw a T.V program the other week 'Man in a Suitcase' clip was filmed in the white city track

Could have cried

Went to Wimbledon derby twice broke my hart how could we ever go from w c to this hole
Every thing at w c look smart always fresh paint for derby
Germckenna dogs look like someone had paint them in paddock weigh in you turn round 5-6 of the best looking greyhounds you will ever see by a million miles happy days

I would have loved to be around in those days,I find them fascinating,white city, catford, hackney,harringay,places packed to the rafters,I am so envious.

i used to get the old train from barking to harringay,the best track i went to was white city when i was a kid just used to stare at the lights when it was raining what a running track that was

best one anyone ever went to DR

In 1972

Super Rory won all rounds and semi-final of the Derby (TR28.26 in SF) - got beat in final by Patricias Hope.

on to Scottish derby - Super Rory wins all rounds and SF - gets beat in final by Patricias Hope.

on to Welsh Derby - Super Rory wins all rounds and SF - gets beat in final by Patricias Hope

1972 my first year at the Derby ..no place like White City

great thread

Lee I was there a year later, also my first derby, captured from that day, patricias hope was in 5 , hit the third bend in front, got 9/2 went off 7/2, massive crowds, never to be forgotten.

this is one of the best threads ever put up on here, wonder if whitmarsh is still going he'd be about 82 now

soz 92 I meant

Whitmarsh was the best poster we shall ever read on here. An incredible memory.

irishone he was 88 4 years ago sadly i think he and mr memory have passed on

shame really , lovely old fellah , my granddad and him could share a few stories I bet they crossed paths !

Whitmarsh and Mr Memory were the best posters on the doggie forum ever. Sadly both must have left this mortal coil.

Always been surprised that no one on here could identify either poster.

Some people definitely knew who they were. But they would be of a certain generation.

Some feat being at Harringey 1927. If they have passed on, hope theyre backing lots of winners above the clouds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSvAlBONbE

this link is worth taking a look, sad to watch but brings back great memories

i often go on the old dog track site & it makes you sick thinking what it used to be,  when you look about
at all the foreigners around that area i bet a high percent wouldnt have a clue
what went on there 30 + years ago.

............. how things have changed

when the ITV 7 was fecked , they had Harringay dogs lined up as substitute 

never forget watching it ....

In the eighties I saw the "Killing Fields" , about the same period in Cambodia's primitive history involving switching cultures by force.

What's happened in the UK is the same thing but its been done peacefully by liberal politicians.
What are you as a country if you desert your traditional sports and values ?
Why has a country which is forever pushing its history and its roots given up on greyhound racing ?

I often see the question "has political correctness gone too far ?" and my response is "YES".
For me its a primitive country that allows foxes to roam its cities eating out of bins and attacking kids.
For me its a primitive country that switches its culture because its guilty about what it did in the past.
For me its a primitive country that allows foreigners to come in, take your jobs and undercut your wages.

If there is one country in Europe I'd back to get Ebola it would be the UK , "tolerance" can go too far imho and Ron you are 100% right there probrably ain't one foreigner in that area who knows or CARES about the history of Harringay ! Disgraceful  !

Ernie ( The Hat ) Farrant worked his socks off to keep Harringay ticking along and in the media forefront.  Huge loss when it went.

Millwall 66 - you'll probably enjoy this one too.

Here it is lads.

thanks a very good read

Nv forget the walk home to Tottenham after a bad Friday ?????

I walked in the opposite direction to Stoke Newington.

white city to hendon 55 min i was quick then

My father clerked for Johnny White senior in the 1950s at White City.

My first clerking job at dogs clerking for Georgia knight at stow nxt stand was mccrickic tic tacking think bookie was Leslie Norris ?

I remember George Knight making a book at Clapton in the cheap ring.

Last night all the regulars did a lap of honour and they took souvenirs, chairs, mirrors, tables the lot Only time I went to Harrringay was the last night and had to pay 50 quid to a taxi driver to get me home.

This thread is Greyhound history and should never be lost.

I'm sure someone will be here to keep bringing it back, seaside.

Wouldn't it be lovely if whitmarsh or Mr memory were stil alive be a great end to a fantastic topic x

It would indeed, gal.

Lpve this thread, also a great thread about Catford memories, I'll try and dig it up.

There is a Catford thread from 5 years ago available, slippy.

whitmarsh would be 93 now

yeah mad dog I thought he would be in his 90's.

Joint best thread ever.
Happy days

Whitmarsh last posted in 2012

The good old days 8 races plenty of bookies Paul gilliat top bookie in the big ring

paul gilliat did he kill hes boyfriend

Heartbreaking to read this thread again ..The game nowadays is a shadow of its former self. .In all sorts of ways

the games gone sorry to say just being honest

Loved going there as a youth, same as White City, Walthamstow, Wembley etc, horrible journey from Deptford but well worth it

The Biggest disaster in the History of Greyhound racing was the sale and Closure of the City
but looking at things since Hardly Surprising

For those of us who attended the City back in the day ,the suggestion that the derby  could
End up at a gaff like  TOW ,would be beyond Fckin Belief U have to fckin  larf  tbh ..I remember when the Pagan Dog won the first one at Don , I thought WTF has happened ? At least we did go on to see some great Derbys there ,I hope the fck I am wrong but what we will end up with at TOW is frightening to any
purist of our great sport

As matso said,  it's "heartbreaking when you read this thread".  So many great tracks Clapton, Harringay, Catford, Hackney, White City etc.

i was there i nite the little big got on fire , some one said put more wood on it

total respect whitmarsh,Ijust I was around when the sport had its glory days,not like now ran by bookies just to keep the shops open on a night for the poor fobt fkers

White city was my local track and this thread bring back memories of Sherry's Prince when he ran in the chases at this venue. The chases had 2 or 3 extra hurdles which obviously put a premium on jumping, and Sherry was peerless at this discipline.

when the forum was at its best none of this woody bo11ocks

Spot on doc

I think Lacca Champion won his first round Derby heat at Harringay the year he won it unbeaten at White City.