whitecity

Most memorable Derby race was the semi final when Camira Flash, ante post favourite before the start of the competition and OWNED BY THE DUKE OF EDINBURGH, finished 4th in the Semi.
For the first and last time ever, the 3rd Lively Band was disqualified and Camira Flash made the Final.............and WON

Remember all the bookies wooden boxes going on to the track that night.

LIVELY BAND went on to win the Consolation Final in a time quicker than the Final.
Memorable.

Being told to punt Ellas Penguin in an S3, I was about 14, had £40 at 9-4, black cab back to Deptford after, great great place, many happy memories

will never see a trak like it again

Im mid-30's mike. When did it close?

84

Mike lively band was disqualified the year Tartan Khan won,it attacked Shamrock Point Ger Mckennas dog who finished 4th,
consequently the final was a 5 dog race Myrtown was jolly .

Camira Flash was a little early for me.

I'd love to see Tartan Khan's final again. Hare was slowed at the third bend causing Sallys Cobbler to check wide.

My first visit was on Boxing Day 1952. The racing surface was sewn-in straw (no undersoil heating in those days) & I can still remember the two winners that I backed........."Mark Anthony" & "Minorcas Hope"

RothmanMike as i recall MOST semis were faster than the finals

or was it consolations

I can remember a Walthamstow dog called "Polonius" winning the Consolation Final in quicker time than "Daws Dancer"

t

Mr Memory. Interested in your post about the late John White as my father used to clerk for him in the 50s and 60s at White City. Also for his brother Siddy at Stamford Bridge. John as I remember was a decent bloke.

"sparrow".............................I found him to be O.K.
When he & his son used to walk about together on the racecourse, the workmen used to refer to them as "The Sheriff & The Deputy"

Was his brother the top man tic-tac at the White City ?

Mr Memory. I think I can recall my father mentioning him as a tic tac although I am not sure as It was so long ago. My Father did not rate him in the same class as John though as a bookmaker

"sparrow"........When White City had bookmakers stretching from the second to third bends on the cheap side, the main tic-tac was most important. He showed across from just below the restaurant & had men working on the floor in the top rings below.
There were three rings on the dearer side. In the early 1950s, the top ring bookmakers were Philly Earl, Manny King,**McDonald & Ted Craze (Craze & Gibbs).........Tony Hancocks father in law, "Cutface" Ross, worked for Ted Craze.
Admission to the top ring was 12/6d.

In the early 70's I used to work in a Betting Shop for**Mcdonald in Upton Park Market. Their was this Old Guy in his seventies then who worked with me. His name was "JIMMY CROCKET". He did his Tic Tac at the White City mostly for a firm called Martin Huntman, does anybody out there remember him??

this one?

this one?

no the other one

Jimmy Crockett was Gerry Driscolls brother-in-law.Lovely little man.Micheal Tabor started with Martin Huntmans father Ruby.

rothmanmike
must pull you up in the memory stakes

Fin Name Sex**Color Sire Dam Time Dist STime Box Posts SP kg Comment
1st Sallys Cobbler m APR 1973 BK Cobbler Pineapple Jam 29.73 2 5/2
2nd Foreign Exchange m JUL 1973 BEF Silver Record Coolagorna Again 29.81 1 5 8/1
3rd Lively Band * m MAY 1972 F Silver Hope Kell's Queen 29.89 1 3 3/1
4th Shamrock Point * m JAN 1973 WBK Monalee Champion Gruelling Point ?
5th Slippery Slave m MAY 1972 BD The Grand Silver Doon Bridge ?
6th Beara's Magic m MAY 1973 F Monalee Arkle Final Finish ?

as you can see no camira flash in the race that was years earlier

apologies did not see case money had replied

WHEN WORKING AT NORTHAW ,I HAD A DOG THAT I LOOKED AFTER CALLED ....DOUBTFUL SAM ...I HAD ME CASE 2 QUID ON HIM ONE NIGHT AND HE WON AT 25-1 ,I HAD TO NIP ROUND THE CHEAP SIDE AND HAD IT WITH THE FIRST BOOK I COME TO ,DUNNO HIS NAME ....WHEN I DREW ME 49.92 HE WASNT HALF PLEASED TO SE ME .....HAPPY DAYS

It was Not Flashing that was disq so Camira Flash got into the final.

alby parsons was the fist book outside them days used to bet in the name of sammy davis and was tic tac for john white at the horses

HE WAS THE BOOK NEAREST THE PADDOCK 3RD BEND

did they ever have a going bias there ;-)

thats right john the fruit was the light and dark and shortie was the tic tac

I have updated the news on Albie on the other thread.

cashless did you work for singleton his dogs were always very well turned out

I gave Albie some money for a White City dog when we were at Sandown in the afternoon.
Early next morning, Sunday, there was a knock at the door & there stood Mr Parsons with a wad of money in his hand.
"I dont usually deliver on a Sunday but I want to know where you got the information from" he said.
The dog was called " Brindle Tape" & it was trained by............................Adam Jackson.

yeh white city awesome ,loved the last race ,680M graded.......always about three different
leaders ,no problems getting a bet on ! ,how did the derby go to wimbledon?
if backed few winners ,finish off at golden nugget casino
now go to oxford ,non of the above apply there!

forgot the graded hurdles

WHITMARSH...COLIN WEST WHEN HE WAS THERE

adam jackson graet man to do adog agent aswell always buy you a light ale tragedy he died so young he had a lot of putters on you never knew how big a touch he had very generous man who loved life

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Cashless at the time of the dog you spoke of Doubtful Sam you would have been with Colin West at the time of the good hurdlers Shanneys Darkie and Drish Pat. Did the good hurdler Try It Blackie start with West? I think it went to Harringay. Talking of hurdlers the best i ever saw was Sherrys Prince the year he beat Adamstown Valley Derry Palm and Irish Hedgehog was a very strong Grand Natinal Final.do you remember the Colin West stayers Sole View and dramatic move?

Case Money i remember the great staying dog Case Money it was mid seventies trained at Harringay by Ted parker and owned by Irishman Mr.Paerce

Whitmarsh-are you a relation of the old bookmaker of the same name.

No that was Pat Whitmarsh a good fiddler.He always used to shout six to four the field with six to five on the board.A stampede of punters would run from the big ring to where he bet then he would point to the six to five.Anybody remember Mary Stavin the Miss World waiting for Don Shanks to come back from a Q.P.R away game used to see her by the jellied eel stall.Stan Bowles Henrygobbo and the shrewd punter Minnie all got about together.I met Mary Stavin years later and she told me she married an American and lives not to far from Lingfield racecourse.

Where was the jellied eel stall.

By the entrance................halfway down the back straight........and another one opposite (the finishing line)

Thats right underneath the cheap ring.

Sparrow the late John Whites brother who was on top at White City was Billy.The last time I saw his brother Siddy was in the silver ring at goodwood but that was many years ago.

hard to believe it all excisted ,like some ghost world from a different age.

wish we could go back to white city days!!!! would love to have seen it

Case money and Rothman Mike.The year Tommy Johnstons Lively Band won the consolation final in red was Jimsuns derby final.I backed Ger McKennas Ballymaclune out of trap six. The Irish coursing man Fintan Kerwin had Myrtown in it trained by Eddie Moore in Manchester I cant remember the other runners. It was 1974 because they put the Derby back a week from the fourth week in June because of the world cup.The following year Xmas Holiday was in red Ibacked another Ger McKenna dog beaten in the final called Ballybeg Prim.Natalie Savva had Westmead Myra in six I think she was the first ** pup to contest a derby final.The owner of Ballybeg Prim thought he was unbeatable and it was dubbed the best greyhound in the world until he missed the break and Mutts Silver beat him in the semi final.Mutts Silver was a rocket to the bend.Tartan Khans year must have been later.Balliniska Bands year i backed adog called Pat Seamur at abig price to win a lot of money .It run well but you dont cop for running well.

Case money and Rothman Mike.The year Tommy Johnstons Lively Band won the consolation final in red was Jimsuns derby final.I backed Ger McKennas Ballymaclune out of trap six. The Irish coursing man Fintan Kerwin had Myrtown in it trained by Eddie Moore in Manchester I cant remember the other runners. It was 1974 because they put the Derby back a week from the fourth week in June because of the world cup.Xmas Holiday was in red Ibacked another Ger McKenna dog beaten in the final called Ballybeg Prim.Natalie Savva had Westmead Myra in six I think she was the first ** pup to contest a derby final.The owner of Ballybeg Prim thought he was unbeatable and it was dubbed the best greyhound in the world until he missed the break and Mutts Silver beat him in the semi final.Mutts Silver was a rocket to the bend.Tartan Khans year must have been later.Balliniska Bands year i backed adog called Pat Seamur at abig price to win a lot of money .It run well but you dont cop for running well.

The above post should read after world cup.....The following year. Apologies.

mutts silver 1st t4 6/1
ballybeg prim 2nd 4/5f
w'mead myra 3rd 20/1
xmas holiday 4th 5/1
jackies jet 5th 7/1
w;mead champ t3 3/1

do you remember Flip Your Top arountd that time.
my 1st ever favourite dog!

cheers

Yes I remember him.If he hit the lids you could fancy him against anything he was a very good dog on the hare. Thank you for the information.

whit,

do you remember a guy called Goody?
used to watch the races at white city on the 3rd bend.

a real character and good judge

I knew a few baddies but not a Goody.

"inside scoop"......................I knew "Goody"......he lived in Greenford.

Any one out there remember Jessie the police woman who used to parade the dogs when off duty ? I saw her outside Loftus Road for a Q.P.R game saturday afternoon saturday night off duty she paraded the dogs.

what year was that rothman mike regarding the duke of edinburghs dog getting in through a disqualification and winning?

Westmead Myra the first ** pup in a Derby final? What about Shady Parachute?

Santa Concerto. I think Camira Flash was 1968.
Inside Scoop. I saw Flip Your Top lead and beat Mutts Silver in an open at White City.It might have been a Derby heat because a dog mentined earlier by Casemoney,Ger McKennas Shamrock Point was in the race.
Hit For Brains.Was Shady Parachute a pup? But you might be right.

The trials for the Derby was always a great morning.Aalways an electric atmosphere of anticipation.The varios newspaper tipsters and the judges with thier stop watches clocking them to the first and third bend.The bookmakers gathering information and forming opinions,in them days you had 29 seconds orl less no videos then.Billy Mahon the south london bookie made a big ante post book.Chocolates,who bet at Park Royal and was with Obie Dyer at Harringay used to bet on the trials and nearly always drew.Graet dog man.There was a bigger crowd at the derby trials than when Iwent to Walthamstowon a Bank Holiday last year to say goodbye to the place.
One year at the derby trialsthe clock men couldnt believe the time a Welsh dog doneto the first bend it run right off it went into it so fast.It was called Coed Canoe somethingand had won a derby plate at Bristol.What a dog up the straights that would have been.Any one ever take dogs up the straights?I took my dog Lucky up Edgeware one sunday morning,he was a good two bender,in afour dog race I had an even fiftythought money for old rope.Hegot beat a length by Pakistani mans dog.They alwys had good dogs up the straights.

Whitmarsh. you seem to have a good recall of the great White City days, I remember backing a few winners there in opens, I wonder if you remember any of these, Stayers = Greenville Fauna.. Movealong Margo.. Hiver Whitenose etc, Hurdlers.. Derry Palm.. Tonys Twister.. Tonys Friend.. Ballintore Tiger.. Halfpenny King.. not forgetting the great Sherrys Prince.. what great days.

Whitmarsh you are certainly rekindling some memories here, I have recently acquired 2 old Greyhound Express newspapers one dated 20th feb 1968 which was a tuesday, the other dated 20th january 1968 which was a saturday, they both contain all the old tracks cards and results and write ups, makes for some great reading.

16.05 22 jan

mr memory

goody -used to get the central line train tgrom greenford with him.

think it was the 2 minutes past 7 !!

Millwall,my post to cashless on 20 jan mentions Sherrys Prince and Derry Palm
Derry Palm done me a few favours I might tell you.Another good hurdler of the time was Pier Hero a blue and white dog trained at Harringay who held the clock atWhite City in the early seventies.He was still winning opens at five Millwall,he was owned by Danny Mack who had a betting shop in Bermondsey
by the Catholic church and another by Kidbrooke station

Ive gotta say this is one of the best threads ever on this forum and should be compilled in to a book.I will be first to buy it. mr memory and whitmarsh your storys are great.

"sous"...............Never mind the stories..........they were great times.
I played cricket at Laleham a few times against a chap called Percy Brown...................the bookmakers at White City made a presentation to the Racing Manager when he put 2000 graded races on the card without an odds on chance..........Major Percy Brown.

"sous".........................consecutive races.

"inside scoop".....................I used to get on at Perivale.

whitmarsh i never went till 75 so never seen the 74 consolation

but I can assure u lively band was slung out of the 75 derby after

coming 3rd in the semi ,He attacked Shamrock point Ger Mckennas

Dog, who came 4th, leaving a 5 dog final alot of me people including

my self thought shamrock should been given the place in the final.

for those who have not seen this site

http://www.greyhoundderby.com/history_of_the_derby.htm



http://www.greyhoundderby.com/1975-greyhound_derby.htm

love this thread.
please allow me a few more experiences.

late 70's , i was about 17.used to go to the cheap side to begin with ,then they'd open the gates to the posh side for the last 2.
i was about £25 down with 2 to go but spun up a £2 double
to unbelievably win on the night.
decided to teach myself a lesson so walked home to greenford,
along the A40 about 7-8 miles.
it was a baking hot night and i was knackered by the time i got to hanger lane but plugged on in true Dorando style.
amazingly,i came back on the bridle by the time i got to hoover factory in Perivale and walked past my house on to the Oldfield Tavern for the evening disco. didnt pull sadly!
i've loved stayers ever since!

:^0 pmsl Id walk 50 miles to and from it ,if it were still there :-(

Casemoney.Amate of mine has told me Jimsun was 74 Tartan Khan 75 and Mutts Silver 76.Not mutts Silver derby after Jimsun like I said. You would be right.

if u have a look at the link i posted whit u can see all the derbys some even have the programme :-)

"inside scoop".................................I lived just behind the Oldfield at that time. I used to walk to Wembley sometimes during my keep fit campaign...........it failed.

The GRA were the leading promoters after the War. Their tracks were Powderhall, Belle Vue, Manchester (White City), Hall Green, Stamford Bridge, New Cross, Harringay & White City.
Their track strength was maintained by breeding their own dogs & either leasing them out or selling them to new owners.
Each year of whelping was denoted by a pair of letters ie. I go back to 1948 when the letters were WW........"Wild Wolf", "Westmoreland Wilfred" etc.
1949.....MG........"Mobile Gwen", "Mobile Gendarme", "Mountain Greek"
1950.....WM......."Willies Mazurka". "Wimpole Mark", "Wimpole Maple"
1951.....GC........"Grimsby Captain", Grimsby Casterway", "Grimsby Coast", "Generous Captor", "Gulmarg Chinchilla"
1952.....RC........"Rocs Courtier", "Racing Countess"
1953.....PL........."Prince Laurence"........began running at New Cross & I believe that it may have ended up winning the Grand National.

All a bit boring, but it brought back many associated memories to me.

mr memory - Their track strength was maintained by breeding their own dogs & either leasing them out or selling them to new owners.
Each year of whelping was denoted by a pair of letters ie. I go back to 1948 when the letters were WW........"

--------------

that is an amazing story. how did they come to choose the letters - was there any reason, or was it just random?

somebody really should write a history of this sport, before details like the above are lost forever.

Casemoney.
Lively Band was sent to stud in Australia.Years later he was sent back to the Cork man Jack Murphy who bred him and trained him before being sent toTommy Johnston but the dog was found dead in the crate when the plane touched down at Heathrow.Regarding Shamrock Point.He should have been in the final but following the Camira Flash business they changed the rules!!

hitforbrains 23 Jan 09:25


Westmead Myra the first ** pup in a Derby final? What about Shady Parachute?

both of them were 23 months old when running in the final
does anyone remember a bookie called steve griffin?

Steve Griffin made a book in the cheap ring at White City.When it closed he went to Harringay,helived in Brighton and Iwas told he had betting shops and a nightclub in Brighton.He would lay a substatial wager.

Whitmarsh. You asked about getting this thread back up so here it is.
One way of printing these out is to use the full page forum link rather than the pop up and print from there using the icon at the top of your page.

Sparrow,Very kind of you,thank you so much

Whitmarsh. You are welcome

whitmarsh stevie certainly did have shops in the brighton area one in portslade in particular was a cess pit opposite the battle of trafalga mental on a friday he also traded as kismet happy days

Wedge,I seem to recall Steve Griffin either having shops or an SP in the name of Kismet or was that the name of the night club he owned?Did you know Kismet was a film that was out in the twenties.

Thank you also Sparrow, I missed this originally; must have been away. Saw lots of those dogs there, and the eel stall on the chep side with the pie, mash and eel liquor! A delicacy and location much missed!

Camira Flash failed a dope test but was ALLOWED to run in the final

Camira Flash failed a dope test but was ALLOWED to run in the final

ah whilte city TWTD
I saw a yank called Paul Pennell break the World Pole Vault Record there in the late sixties.
In the seventies I saw Patricias Hope win her second greyhound derby there, Trap 5 9-2. Sweated in the TOTE queue... no change there then,
TWTD

I was privilaged enough to have been at White City to see Haymaker Mack smash the clock in the Derby consolation final, the best run ever from any dog that I have ever witnessed and I have seen all the greatest dogs run in the last 30 years or so.

Balliniska Band winning the '77 Derby was memorable for me. I was on early at 16s.

Watch it again here on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKnvfM7kc-U

is this it?

Mr Memory and Whitmarsh
this has been great reading your memories....I have to ask you one brain teaser...at both White City and Wembley there were two putter onners who worked in the restaurant,one shorter and looked not unlike Harry Carpenter,the other larger with glasses...both real gents,would pop onto Ebbys table,much to Vernons chagrin(the restaurant manager)
To my shame their names have completely erased from my grey matter
Another bookie in the cheap ring I recall was Wag Shaw,nice quiet guy.
Last little story,there was an odious Irishman on the cheap side who hated bookies....Pay the punter...Pay the punter...Pay the punter...on and on...one night,Noel Furlong who now works for Ladbrokes on course nicked his hat.....it was the best  race of the night...now Noel was a brilliant footballer and Gaelic and super fit....1/10.......every time Pay the Punter  caught Noel he would nip away...the crowd went mad,he was up and down the stairs and escalator.....Im sure the race went by and everyone was more into this duel...I wont say what Noel did to the hat but I wouldnt have put it on.....he did though.....Noel got plenty of respect after that...and a bit of credit....I have a picture somewhere at the end of night where Noel showered under a leaking gutter outside as an encore....god know what his mum must have thought!

"celticgr"..........Vernon was superb at Wembley & after he later left the GRA at Wimbledon, their restaurant performance went downhill fast.................he was almost in the Bertorelli White City class. The heavier built putter on was Reg Deller....I can picture the Harry Carpenter lookalike now, but he was pretty discreet & I never found out who his governor was. Reg put on for the Greeks.

He was indeed brilliant,I went to Wimbledon one night and was surprised to see him working,he did however looked lost,as if the world had passed him by...he had the WC restaurant under his control and was quiet strict with some of the diners,you had to have either a different colour card to get in or a stamp,Ebby was always switching the cards to get people in,so you could see the issue....he loved it when a star or Princess Margaret turned up
Reg Dellar....bang on...and yes he put on for Nik and Greeks,I will get the other name somehow
Alby loved his food,once a month he would dress up and go off to Roux Bothers and eat the best...he also loved Topo Gigio in Notting Hill...he described it as painter in Piccassos class cooking for you,he was right

For the attention of Wood Lane.

many thanks sparrow

No disrespect but the best white city thread has to be this one !