How to bring back greyhound racing from the dead

Excellent posting.

Suggest you apply for CEO of GBGB. Unless you are an expert hockey player.

Amd I not right in thinking for dog races in Ireland you pay an entry fee PLUS there is no run money?

Though I do agree with your points though

RM
Yes. There is an entry fee.
Prize money usually paid 1st , 2nd, 5th and 6th.
Strange but true .

I thought so. Just had a quick look at HC and they paid 1st 2nd and 3rd.

IT CANT BE DONE !!

Great topic and agree with the points raised so far.

Personally I think the current BAGS system is flawed in how it operates. When a track races on a cold, wet Monday afternoon it is obviously going to be a very weak betting market. Only die hard fans and connections are going to be playing and, if I were a bookmaker in those circumstances, I'd not be too keen to lay big bets for such a small "well versed" clientelle.

So weak, nervous markets are much of the problem IMO. Unless you switch off the Internet very few regular punters with a brain are going to bet at tracks that price up at 3/1 the field race after race (like Kins on Sunday PM!!).

Wouldn't it make more sense for the big bookmakers to run a combined tote style market at their tracks and in their shops for BAGS meetings? That way punters know the deduction they have to overcome, the bookmakers get what they want (no losing results) and then they have a real incentive to get people in to the tracks and shops to bet on the sport? Maybe someone should buy the Tote off the Government with this in mind?

If the bookmakers knew they were earning a guaranteed 20% rake from the turnover on BAGS then surely they could make it worthwhile for people to go to the BAGS meetings with decent promos? A Jackpot and Placepot type bet that can carry over to the next days BAGS meeting with a decent "bonus" if it is won on the track, competitions to "own" a greyhound for a year, encourage businesses to hold meetings on site where they can finish off by having a meal and enjoy the racing in the afternoon or evening.....

The OP is absolutely right about poor marketing. I was in business for years and during that time sponsored several open races. But I had to go to the local tracks and ask about doing it! If I hadn't been a dog racing fan I'd never have thought about it because NOT ONCE in all my years did anyone ever come to us and suggest sponsoring races. And when I did sponsor races they often gave me free meals and other gizzits almost wiping out the value of the sponsorship because they didn't have much of a clue how to promote a sponsor!

Do tracks ever think to employ a decent marketing manager? Where are the discount vouchers for evening meetings in the local press? Where are the free and supervised "kids clubs" to give parents a good night out without the hassle? Where are the regular features written for the local press etc. etc. etc?

Personally I think the sport could have a good future if the investment was there and they brought in the kind of people who know how to market an industry to underpin it. Racecourses have survived, non-premier football still pulls in thousands of fans each week so don't tell me dog racing can't attract a viable crowd.

Agreed on this.

These points need raising with the GBGB formally. I previously offered to write a letter from this forum on a similar thread to this not long back where people were complaining that dog racing was on it's way down. My suggestion was that a letter be sent from us as a forum and not as the thoughts of a single person. Nobody responded.

If we group together we'll stand a lot more chance of being listened to.

Quite simply make the big 3 stand at BAGS meetings with their own prices , betting to 120%, and having to lay a dog to lose £1k mininmum. There would be no knockouts or upside down betting, and the punters would flock back. At the moment they have the betting product for nothing and all they do is moan about it.At the horse tracks they are constantly knocking in prices by asking a select few bookies, with say 8to 1 on the boards, to lay 6 monkies and go 5. Outrageous!This happens every single day.I am sure the on course dog bookies would be highly delighted to give up standing at the Bags. then we cpould inforce the original posters new ideas. Rant over.

All very good posts and totally agree that Big Three should look after their prices for their shops and not rely on a few on course bookmakers to do their job free of charge and then have audacity to complain or rush in and forcible alter prices to suit themselves.

Putting up better and more reliable prices on Bags has got zero to do with bringing the game back from the dead - it just please 'us' the punters.

Some fair points there, but I rather agreed with a poster yesterday that said the stadia should be turned into real decent restaurants/pubs with the hounds as entertainment. A bit like the big clubs that have entertainment on stage. The big races need to be at weekends, make them huge entertainment, plus them, offer free entry, the kids can meet the dogs after the races in a plush paddock, attendees get a free quid super jackpot or something worth proper money, or ownership of a dog. something just to liven the game up.

I totally disagree that improving Bags will increase anything other than the pleasure of the regular punter. I hated my dogs running on Bags/Begs on an average wet Thursday in October.

Anyway, sorry if I offend

Greyhound Racing Today:About as inviting as a kick in the OLLOX'S !!

CR*P : Racing.
" " : Food.
" : Stadiums.
Made me laugh last night,only 3 bookies @ Donny last night,one of them was only betting with out the fav !!
I feel sorry for the trainers,owners & the people who work at the dog tracks who rely on the sport for a living.
Can anyone on here give me a reason for anyone to go to there local track this saturday,who has'nt been before or for a long time.
Please dont respond,"there's a good card at so & so,people want to be entertained nowadays,not stand in some freezing ,damp ,smelly room,where the beer is SH!T,the food is BURGER & *****the race card is in a language they dont understand,then they might want to have a bet,first on the tote,the woman or man the other side of the window is about as helpful as a ****,then if they get the courage up they might have a go with the bookie outside, "£2 win please",P!ss off min bet is a £5 or £10 !! I'm not interested in the people eating up top,if you dont look after the people down below,then it will finish for good . And that would be a very SAD DAY.

A) Build the tracks close to Uni's
B) Cheap entry
C) Cheap booze
D) Cheap Food

= packed house

ie.....Owlerton. To the rafters again last night

enable people to view the races on pc's

PoD, some good points, but most of them have already been tried at most tracks. Sunderland and Newcastle offer very good prize money for every graded race and often put up good money for opens. The general public only have a limited amount of money available for entertainment purposes, and they do not want to use it on gambling, no matter what other attractions are put on......

Part of the problem arose a number of years ago, when the price of pups from Ireland went through the roof. Buyers were often conned and the pups were over-priced. Many people who had bought these dogs in works syndicates got their fingers burnt and withdrew from the game. Once again, the greediness of a few spoiled things for the masses. Even now, when there is a recession in both countries, the breeders are still trying to charge very high prices for untried pups - only fools will go down this route now and so the whole game suffers.......

Regular daily televised coverage of the best open race action -

greyhound racing is 95 per cent dead used to love going but whats the point bad percentages bad food used to go about 5 times a week last time i went was about 4 months ago to romford

Bought a hound with a couple of pals in July - not my first venture but still pretty keen.

We've been very lucky in that she's won six races Aug to Oct, all A1's at Wimbledon.

November and we're paying the price likely to get two runs tops so thats about £32 (assuming she doesnt win her other run this month) towards a bill of nearly £250. That swallows up any surplus fron SIX wins in three months plus we will have to stump up.

AND WE ARE THE VERY LUCKY ONES - WITH SIX WINS AT A1


Theres' an almighty amount required to make greyhound racing a sound business prospect for promoters, owners, trainers and all connected with the game either professionally or for fun. If the racing isn't tied to BAGS then the prize money is insulting - if it is then your hound runs at all sorts of ungodly times in front of no-one.

So given it's all so shieeeeet how come I've got back involved - because that surely must give clues as to how to bring owners into the game!! me, being one.

Well first of all - the news is even better than that. Because not only did I return to ownership but brought two new owners into the game with me.

How was it done. Well it's down to one person actually. The trainer. In a class of her own and makes the whole game fun... especially the kennel visits and all things NOT to do with the track. Her team are second to none re hospitality - relaxed and caring for both owners and the hounds.

So adding to the very first poster on this thread - most ownership is connected with the kennel, the trainer and the kennel team. Notwithstanding how shieeeeet the prize money and the track comfort might be - the value can be in being welcomed in the sport even before the hound starts it's racing career.

How to bring back greyhound racing from the dead.
short answere, you cant ,

how many of true dog owners are in the game for the graded prize money-none
how many of true dog owners have ever been in the sport for prize money-none

when i started racing and owned my first greyhound the admission charge was 2/6 old money
top prize money for a1(salford) was£28 simple maths 224x addmission charge work that one out ,
for todays equivalent

for whatever reason you first went greyhound racing you got hooke,
its in the blood
its like a drug its got you and wont let go,

but as much as it saddens me to say so

its gone like the stow and all the others ,never to be the same again ,
all true dog people know this but got heads in the clouds,and hoping for the miracle the will never happen,
if you got a super rich owner to build a super track with everything you could wish for thrown in
that is only one track ,
how you going to get all the tracks up to the same standard impossible,
only way you could do it is like american racing ,
TOTE MONOPOLY,ON SITE CASINO =very large crowns = massive cash imput
nobody realy give a ** about the dogs its a by product of the cassino and window dressing,
how many track owners give a f--k about the owners ?
none its about proffits,
1 bookie 1 punter whos bothered we got bags money we are in profit,
o sorry we own the track as well so we will keep our own money ,
what spend money on our own track why ? nobody comes any more,
hey heres a good idea lets let anybody in for free,
then they will spend money and get**ed most wont have a bet but who cares
we got there cash

How to bring back greyhound racing from the dead.
short answere, you cant ,

how many of true dog owners are in the game for the graded prize money-none
how many of true dog owners have ever been in the sport for prize money-none

when i started racing and owned my first greyhound the admission charge was 2/6 old money
top prize money for a1(salford) was£28 simple maths 224x addmission charge work that one out ,
for todays equivalent

for whatever reason you first went greyhound racing you got hooke,
its in the blood
its like a drug its got you and wont let go,

but as much as it saddens me to say so

its gone like the stow and all the others ,never to be the same again ,
all true dog people know this but got heads in the clouds,and hoping for the miracle the will never happen,
if you got a super rich owner to build a super track with everything you could wish for thrown in
that is only one track ,
how you going to get all the tracks up to the same standard impossible,
only way you could do it is like american racing ,
TOTE MONOPOLY,ON SITE CASINO =very large crowns = massive cash imput
nobody realy give a ** about the dogs its a by product of the cassino and window dressing,
how many track owners give a f--k about the owners ?
none its about proffits,
1 bookie 1 punter whos bothered we got bags money we are in profit,
o sorry we own the track as well so we will keep our own money ,
what spend money on our own track why ? nobody comes any more,
hey heres a good idea lets let anybody in for free,
then they will spend money and get**ed most wont have a bet but who cares
we got there cash

So adding to the very first poster on this thread - most ownership is connected with the kennel, the trainer and the kennel team. Notwithstanding how shieeeeet the prize money and the track comfort might be - the value can be in being welcomed in the sport even before the hound starts it's racing career

Absolutely, and gl to you and yer dogs. Im bored, and you are, of telling you that I have been in the game for years and yet , despite getting cab, train, cab, to kennels each week, was treated like shyt. One day we got up at 4.30am, as always, took the cab (30 quid) the mainline train to 'x', cab from there, walked the dog in the rain, paid the kennel bill, and returned the same way...a round trip of nearly 50 quid a week each to visit our runner (A2/M1). Conversation goes

'Hows it going?'
'Nah, had a terrible few weeks punting'
'Oh, you should have rung me yesterday, we had one last night, got a few quid'

And you want your kennel bill paid on time?

Thats not the main problem, but its all connected with getting the kids involved and encouraging folk to the track and owning them.

Owners have to believe they are getting some sort of advantage otherwise why bother paying the bills and maintenance. If it becomes racing by roulette you may as well not bother.
The occasional winner has to be 'allowed' by the racing manager/trainer so that the owner has the buzz when he invites a dozen friends into the restaraunt/club enclosures even if it is a short priced good thing. They can lose their fair share but too many disappointments to please the big3 and loss of face gets disheartening and the buzz goes out of the game. Racing managers should be artists not technocrats.

Every track should provide one greyhound per track to run for a year for children in need, get all the local bbc news programmes involved,each time the said greyhound was running you could have one pound out of the entrance money donated to children in need, get a website up so people could follow each dog ,run competitions for tickets or chance to go walk the dog, school visits with pudsey bear in tow, " can we go see josie race , please dad"
if it was only for a year we might hook a few ,who enjoy the night out

Publicity is the key....marketing, couple of high profile famous faces

when greyhound raceing was in its prime 40 + years ago
there was very little night time entertainment black and white tv -if you could afford one
so if you where a gambler and wanted a bet you went to the track
remember the days 3/400 gamblers -10/15 bookies to pick from
and only 8 races- this left you time for a few bevvies near home

now you have bookies open till 9.30 the internet to bet on and cans of beer at home

how the hell will you get sufficent gamblers to the track when they can stay at home in comfort
no 6 packers - and all the other things that annoy you
for bookies to exist at a track they need loads of mugs to throw money at them
then they will accomodate the few that win
but you need large numbers through the turn styles who bet
cant see that ever happening again

how many of the 6packers are gamblers not enough to support extra bookies
its a viscious circle but you need large numbers through the turn styles first
and theres to much competition out there now colour tv-sky sports live horse racing
2-3 nights a week
also not enough spare money because of all the highstreet bookies
with 3-4-and maybe 5 race meetings per day 8 races per meeting add on 2 greyhound meetings
with 12-14 races
fruit machines roulet machines-micky mouse races
by the time mug gamblers leave the betting shop they have no money or inclination
to go greyhound racing

sorry but the games is dead as we know it - rest in peace










and there roulet machiens

How was it done. Well it's down to one person actually. The trainer. In a class of her own and makes the whole game fun...

Second to none, u having a giraffe?

I am really impressed by the number of replies to this thread and the ideas that have been put forward. I believe it shows that there are a large number of people who are out there, who love the sport and would love to see it come back to life again. I also believe that there are even more people who, if they knew the sport was taking place on their doorstep would become keen fans.

A few replies to some people on this thread:

The Racing Manager: I offer my apologies with regards to the prize money structure in Ireland. I have never been greyhound racing in Ireland yet, although I hope to do so at some stage.

Barking mad: You raise some good points and I believe you have hit the nail on the head with regards to marketing. It is not that difficult to target prospective customers and make them aware of the attractions of greyhound racing. I have loads of ideas in my head, such as theme nights. Wimbledon is close to Earls Court, hold an Australian night. London gets thousands of American tourists, hold a Thanksgiving race night and hit the hotels.

Cupra: Spot on re the pub/restuarant idea. If a pub can attract 50/60 people to attend a night with a singer and therefore get more people in than say Hove on a tuesday night, why cant Hove put on some Cabaret. In fact, pubs that hold race nights showing old horse races for charity get more punters in than a tuesday night at a dog track. This only happens because the pub has marketed the event and the dog track has marketed zilch.

Buzby: your idea is blatently obvious but spot on!! Student nights where they get free admission etc... but also coupled with students paying a couple of quid to sponser a dog that night. If there dog wins they get to present a trophy to the winning connections, receive a trophy themselves and a framed photo of the presentation.

Gunghadin: I take your point about how some people have been ripped off. However, my idea is that being part of a greyhound syndictate that only costs you £7 a week has a very limited downside.

Feedingthego: I agree the trainer has an important role to play to, and am pleased you are still involved in the sport. I think the whole process of buying a greyhound needs to be more acesible to the general public, even by putting in the racecard an advert in the racecard advertising that you could become a greyhound owner from just £7 a week.

Yorkie: the charity idea is cool. There are some many possibilities, with this, that I do not have the time to expound on them here, but it isn't rocket science !!

I think track managements need a big wake up call. All I ask is everyone keep on putting ideas on here and hopefully someone will listen.

I am really impressed by the number of replies to this thread and the ideas that have been put forward. I believe it shows that there are a large number of people who are out there, who love the sport and would love to see it come back to life again. I also believe that there are even more people who, if they knew the sport was taking place on their doorstep would become keen fans.

A few replies to some people on this thread:

The Racing Manager: I offer my apologies with regards to the prize money structure in Ireland. I have never been greyhound racing in Ireland yet, although I hope to do so at some stage.

Barking mad: You raise some good points and I believe you have hit the nail on the head with regards to marketing. It is not that difficult to target prospective customers and make them aware of the attractions of greyhound racing. I have loads of ideas in my head, such as theme nights. Wimbledon is close to Earls Court, hold an Australian night. London gets thousands of American tourists, hold a Thanksgiving race night and hit the hotels.

Cupra: Spot on re the pub/restuarant idea. If a pub can attract 50/60 people to attend a night with a singer and therefore get more people in than say Hove on a tuesday night, why cant Hove put on some Cabaret. In fact, pubs that hold race nights showing old horse races for charity get more punters in than a tuesday night at a dog track. This only happens because the pub has marketed the event and the dog track has marketed zilch.

Buzby: your idea is blatently obvious but spot on!! Student nights where they get free admission etc... but also coupled with students paying a couple of quid to sponser a dog that night. If there dog wins they get to present a trophy to the winning connections, receive a trophy themselves and a framed photo of the presentation.

Gunghadin: I take your point about how some people have been ripped off. However, my idea is that being part of a greyhound syndictate that only costs you £7 a week has a very limited downside.

Feedingthego: I agree the trainer has an important role to play to, and am pleased you are still involved in the sport. I think the whole process of buying a greyhound needs to be more acesible to the general public, even by putting in the racecard an advert in the racecard advertising that you could become a greyhound owner from just £7 a week.

Yorkie: the charity idea is cool. There are some many possibilities, with this, that I do not have the time to expound on them here, but it isn't rocket science !!

I think track managements need a big wake up call. All I ask is everyone keep on putting ideas on here and hopefully someone will listen.

I am really impressed by the number of replies to this thread and the ideas that have been put forward. I believe it shows that there are a large number of people who are out there, who love the sport and would love to see it come back to life again. I also believe that there are even more people who, if they knew the sport was taking place on their doorstep would become keen fans.

A few replies to some people on this thread:

The Racing Manager: I offer my apologies with regards to the prize money structure in Ireland. I have never been greyhound racing in Ireland yet, although I hope to do so at some stage.

Barking mad: You raise some good points and I believe you have hit the nail on the head with regards to marketing. It is not that difficult to target prospective customers and make them aware of the attractions of greyhound racing. I have loads of ideas in my head, such as theme nights. Wimbledon is close to Earls Court, hold an Australian night. London gets thousands of American tourists, hold a Thanksgiving race night and hit the hotels.

Cupra: Spot on re the pub/restuarant idea. If a pub can attract 50/60 people to attend a night with a singer and therefore get more people in than say Hove on a tuesday night, why cant Hove put on some Cabaret. In fact, pubs that hold race nights showing old horse races for charity get more punters in than a tuesday night at a dog track. This only happens because the pub has marketed the event and the dog track has marketed zilch.

Buzby: your idea is blatently obvious but spot on!! Student nights where they get free admission etc... but also coupled with students paying a couple of quid to sponser a dog that night. If there dog wins they get to present a trophy to the winning connections, receive a trophy themselves and a framed photo of the presentation.

Gunghadin: I take your point about how some people have been ripped off. However, my idea is that being part of a greyhound syndictate that only costs you £7 a week has a very limited downside.

Feedingthego: I agree the trainer has an important role to play to, and am pleased you are still involved in the sport. I think the whole process of buying a greyhound needs to be more acesible to the general public, even by putting in the racecard an advert in the racecard advertising that you could become a greyhound owner from just £7 a week.

Yorkie: the charity idea is cool. There are some many possibilities, with this, that I do not have the time to expound on them here, but it isn't rocket science !!

I think track managements need a big wake up call. All I ask is everyone keep on putting ideas on here and hopefully someone will listen.

Greyhound racing here in ireland is part of a way of life.There are signifcant tax breaks for breeding greyhounds and the social life around the tracks is highly commended and part of the community. The tote is unbelievable, a 50 euro bet totally distorts the market and 150% over round is common place with the few bookies. There are many backyard trainers who do there best to foil the local racing manager, as per UK, but the difference is there ain't too many so called "do gooders" running the government or the state. The banning of fox hunting was the start, steeplechasing, greyhound racing and fishing are next on the do gooders agenda, meanwhile if you are ever passing through galway.....

Prophet: In my younger days I spent way too much of my time at Hove (when they had a cheap side!). Attendance was good even mid-week and they did put on cabarets etc. Alas it seems many tracks now are driven BY their customer numbers rather than trying to actually drive their customer numbers.

However people get involved in dog racing - be it as punter, owner, fan etc. there should be someone at each track who has the budget, ideas and clout to be constantly improving things for every type of potential customer. The trainers are also, effectively, independent businesses in their own right and as such they too need to promote their business to attract owners and runners for the sport.

The editor of the Racing Post in todays issue saying he fears the end for Wimbledon and the sport in general. If he gave a bit more space to dog racing instead of all the stupid things like x-factor he might see an improvement. Trying to make out he's a dog man. Must think were green.didnt get much sympathetic coverage when Walthamstow closed.

Whilst Im no fan of the Rp coverage, that is slightly blinkered. the paper wll still only be bought by the hardcore fan. What the Rp ahould do is help market the sport nationally. Ive mentined the Stow Festival money.....that could be diverted to market the sport. Oh well, theres too many decent fans of the sport, but not enough actually paid by the game

Not having been to a Greyhound race track for about fifteen years I have read this thread with interest.Fifteen tears is not quite true as I did attend Catford with a pal who had runners there about six years ago. Having been a regular there in the 60s and 70s I could not believe the poor facilities/ lack of bookies etc/ . However one point did strike me. WOMEN. They loved it, got all excited about THEIR dog, cheered screamed all for very poor graded fare.

All the suggestions given in this thread have merit however they all appear to be male based.


Focus on the women and they might come.

Offer a form of bingo based on the nights results.EG race 1 result 6-3 means numbers 16 63 13 36 or whatever ( would need some thought but it is possible) . Raffles between races with prizes attractive to women, free nail treatment etc, anything girlie and they will love it.

Perhaps as all the promos aimed at men appear to be failing a shift in focus to the female side might produce some positive results.

Focus on the women and they might come.

And the men would follow,classic marketing technique that always works in the Leisure industry.

Good point! As simple as FREE entry for ladies even.

If only B'fair would buy a track and run it with video for b'fair users... ;-)

Its going to be very hard, esp in the next few years as economic times could get very scary.

The whole outlook of entertainment in the last few years has changed as well, Take 20 years ago, Betting Offices were only open until 6.30, we didnt have the Internet, Computer Games, Social Network sites, etc, home entertainment is now big business, we can now bet on anything just by clicking a button but we pay a price for that via the tracks closing down because we dont go out(same for the pubs) so the story is that we CANT have our cake and eat it.

As well as all that Gambling has been dumbed down, its only 15 years since the lottery was started, people will spend money on that because its a (very small) chance to change your life, The Scoop 6 is now popular because you can win big sums. You aint going to get rich when there's only about £150 quid in the tote f/c pool!!

I dont know the answers, but i dont think that time is on the industries side

I'm not so sure. I can recall people heralding the death of numerous racecourses a few years back but, while acknowledging the fate of Great Leighs, the well established courses have continued and many have improved out of all recognition by a combination of raing their game and marketing themselves better.

I'm tending to think GBGB or various tracks should consider doing a deal with At The Races to expand their coverage/service by including greyhounds. IMO they ATR can claim to have woken up the UK to participate in American and Irish racing so couldn't they increase the awareness and following greyhound racing currently has?

To become a fan of a sport you need to see it.

Offer a form of bingo based on the nights results

Its called Belle Vue Bags!

lol