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Anyone heard anything? Since Taylor left ( a man unencumbered by any knowledge of dog racing but a decent hocky goalkeeper----you couldn't make it up) there has been a defeaning silence from GBGB Towers.
What do you reckon? Old mates network? Stitch up? Not going tobother with another CEO?
What do you reckon? Old mates network? Stitch up? Not going tobother with another CEO?
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Was thinking the same, no adverts or anything. I think Watkins said that they would take their time and try and get someone who knew a bit about the dogs.
He said not necessarily going to get someone with greyhound knowledge but the right person who would need to learn about greyhound racing quickly. Which = another chinless wonder drawing money for knowing jack sh*t!
TBH, I reckon the fellow who is acting CEO right now should be given a go. Might be a bit too BGRB for some tastes but knows his way around the place. They have a lot to do, very quickly and I really don't think they need to be distracted by getting someone else in and starting all over again.
TBH, I reckon the fellow who is acting CEO right now should be given a go. Might be a bit too BGRB for some tastes but knows his way around the place. They have a lot to do, very quickly and I really don't think they need to be distracted by getting someone else in and starting all over again.
Mr Haylor (secretary) is the current acting ceo, knows the company line, has his own desk and is conversant with all the leading players. Mr Haylor is probably praying he gets granted the job on a permanent basis and judging by the previous bgrb/gbgb disasters he probably will to roars of approval from all his mates currently in office at Holborn.
I dont think it matters much anymore what they do at Holborn, two decades of poor policy and the joint greed of the promoters and bookmakers has taken the sport over the cliffs edge.
Outside of BAGS racing there isnt an awful lot left of greyhound racing as a sport with non bags/begs meetings already being culled at tracks across the country and race meetings being shortened by removing a race here and there.
Owners have cried enough as prize money levels continue to dwindle in real terms.....the bookies and promoters have killed their own golden goose as track attendancess and turnover continue to plummet. Next years figures for the industry will be the stuff of nightmares with the closures of Hull, The Stow and Reading to be factored into the equation.
I dont think it matters much anymore what they do at Holborn, two decades of poor policy and the joint greed of the promoters and bookmakers has taken the sport over the cliffs edge.
Outside of BAGS racing there isnt an awful lot left of greyhound racing as a sport with non bags/begs meetings already being culled at tracks across the country and race meetings being shortened by removing a race here and there.
Owners have cried enough as prize money levels continue to dwindle in real terms.....the bookies and promoters have killed their own golden goose as track attendancess and turnover continue to plummet. Next years figures for the industry will be the stuff of nightmares with the closures of Hull, The Stow and Reading to be factored into the equation.
Great post Basil, but I don't agree with you that the bookmaking industry did not see the terminal decline the sport is now in coming.
Indeed, I would suggest that the current situation is exactly where the big three have strategised for where they want greyhound racing to be. They are only interested in keeping the product pumped into the betting shops in as cheap and manipulated a way as possible, and the weaker the greyhound industry is, the more control they are able to exert - and that is what it is all about for them, the total control of the product.
The long term aim for the bookmaking industry in my opinion is the survival only of the tracks they own, and the ones they control from top to bottom trough BAGS - and this is exactly what they will achieve, unless someone comes along with the courage to let them know in no uncertain terms that they need greyhound racing just as much as greyhound racing needs them...
Indeed, I would suggest that the current situation is exactly where the big three have strategised for where they want greyhound racing to be. They are only interested in keeping the product pumped into the betting shops in as cheap and manipulated a way as possible, and the weaker the greyhound industry is, the more control they are able to exert - and that is what it is all about for them, the total control of the product.
The long term aim for the bookmaking industry in my opinion is the survival only of the tracks they own, and the ones they control from top to bottom trough BAGS - and this is exactly what they will achieve, unless someone comes along with the courage to let them know in no uncertain terms that they need greyhound racing just as much as greyhound racing needs them...
Basil have you taken too many Bob Martins? Haylor for CEO? Funny!
**.......thats my point mate, it would be funny, but surely you wouldnt put anything past the Holborn Accreditation Company.
Millhouse.....we dont disagree either mate, Im also sure the bookmakers saw the demise of greyhound racing coming long ago. Greyhound business in the high street shops is at its lowest ever level in terms of a percentage of turnover and the bookmakers dont seem the slightest bit bothered in arresting that decline. A cynic might suggest the bookmakers are quite happy to have punters placing their bets in areas that are not subject to levy payments which also offer higher profit margins.
Millhouse.....we dont disagree either mate, Im also sure the bookmakers saw the demise of greyhound racing coming long ago. Greyhound business in the high street shops is at its lowest ever level in terms of a percentage of turnover and the bookmakers dont seem the slightest bit bothered in arresting that decline. A cynic might suggest the bookmakers are quite happy to have punters placing their bets in areas that are not subject to levy payments which also offer higher profit margins.
as others have said what of you in charge of nothing
you got
bags
bookmakers owned tracks
whatever the company called that owns wimb/belle vue etc
and thats it, no one in england sponsors greyhound comps any more apart from the bookies
like 3 runs for 2000 quid joke competitions
in ireland as least your actually in charge of a proper product with outside sponsors and decent stadiums etc
you got
bags
bookmakers owned tracks
whatever the company called that owns wimb/belle vue etc
and thats it, no one in england sponsors greyhound comps any more apart from the bookies
like 3 runs for 2000 quid joke competitions
in ireland as least your actually in charge of a proper product with outside sponsors and decent stadiums etc
Ravage
The Irish set up is almost entirely at the mercy of Government as it is so heavily subsidised over there. Why? Because a comparatively large number of people are employed in the game and also it is still part of the national conciousness over there. People are still interested in the dogs. Unfortunately, those days are long gone over here. Can you imagine what it must have been like when there were over 30 viable dog tracks in the London area alone?
With the Irish economy in the toilet, the current levels of support are unlikley to be maintained.
I fear an earlier poster has it right. The "big 3" want only their 6 tracks to survive. I think within 10 years they will probably have achieved exactly that.
Attendances are down everywhere---- who really wants to go to a BEGS meeting starting at 6.30? Some tracks are packed out on Saturdays but there isn't a punter amongst them so the rings continue to decline.
I don't know where it will end but I do fear for the game, whoever ends up running the GBGB.
The only thing that can save it is an injection of money which in turn is passed on as prizemoney. This would help bring in new owbners and provide security for trainers. Welfare would be less of an issue if dogs were not simply seen as a liability.
Logically, the money must come from the shops and Betfair as they are the only people to benefit from the product currently. Unfortunately, there is no method of compelling them to do anything, unlike the horse race levy and, to be fair, the shops already pay the GBGB £11m--£12m a year , although this figure must surely decline bearing in mind the restrictions imposed on over the counter bets on the dogs.
Betfair are entitled to pay a large sum bearing in mind how much dog business they do. But they won't.
The Irish set up is almost entirely at the mercy of Government as it is so heavily subsidised over there. Why? Because a comparatively large number of people are employed in the game and also it is still part of the national conciousness over there. People are still interested in the dogs. Unfortunately, those days are long gone over here. Can you imagine what it must have been like when there were over 30 viable dog tracks in the London area alone?
With the Irish economy in the toilet, the current levels of support are unlikley to be maintained.
I fear an earlier poster has it right. The "big 3" want only their 6 tracks to survive. I think within 10 years they will probably have achieved exactly that.
Attendances are down everywhere---- who really wants to go to a BEGS meeting starting at 6.30? Some tracks are packed out on Saturdays but there isn't a punter amongst them so the rings continue to decline.
I don't know where it will end but I do fear for the game, whoever ends up running the GBGB.
The only thing that can save it is an injection of money which in turn is passed on as prizemoney. This would help bring in new owbners and provide security for trainers. Welfare would be less of an issue if dogs were not simply seen as a liability.
Logically, the money must come from the shops and Betfair as they are the only people to benefit from the product currently. Unfortunately, there is no method of compelling them to do anything, unlike the horse race levy and, to be fair, the shops already pay the GBGB £11m--£12m a year , although this figure must surely decline bearing in mind the restrictions imposed on over the counter bets on the dogs.
Betfair are entitled to pay a large sum bearing in mind how much dog business they do. But they won't.
yer it is/was subed heavy, but at least the stadiums are built now, its just running costs mainly and you still have numerous 20k+ plus evens, i mean look at that recent contest at waterford, it was either 3 or 2 runs(for some) and 34k euros which is like 30k, equivalent in england you get 2-5k, mebbys 8k if a major one
Yes, OK. But go to Clonmel on a cold Sunday night and a crowd of , say ,300 people are watching the dogs. And there are still 2,000 euro A3 stakes finals. It simply doesn't add up does it. The admission fees wouldn't touch the edges of the prize money.
The Irish Govt are subsidising the whole thing and based on attendances and tote turnover, you could argue that the game in Ireland is at about the same level as in England. A big difference of course is that the IGB operate the tote at all (?) the tracks .
And that money is recycled too as prize money and grants.
What I am saying is that Irish racing just doesn't add up and I think it may well be built on sand.
The Irish Govt are subsidising the whole thing and based on attendances and tote turnover, you could argue that the game in Ireland is at about the same level as in England. A big difference of course is that the IGB operate the tote at all (?) the tracks .
And that money is recycled too as prize money and grants.
What I am saying is that Irish racing just doesn't add up and I think it may well be built on sand.
A superb point.
At the end of the day, this is a sport. Thats all. No one finances fishing - you wanna buy an expensive rod to sit about all day cackling about the American Crayfish and stuff, go ahead. Dont go into dog racing because it pays, because in very very few cases it pays small fry.
At the end of the day, this is a sport. Thats all. No one finances fishing - you wanna buy an expensive rod to sit about all day cackling about the American Crayfish and stuff, go ahead. Dont go into dog racing because it pays, because in very very few cases it pays small fry.
Agree Cupra.
I own several dogs and even if they run and win ( very rare) then I have a kennel bill. I don't complain. It's my choice and it gives me more pleasure than the missus. Don't tell her.
We all must pay for our hobbies and if we don't like it, find cheaper hobbies. You pays your money and takes your choice.
BUT------- how is the above going to attract new owners to the game----- which is of course where it all starts? The answer of course is that it won't . Ergo the game must be in semi terminal decline as its most important stakeholder-----the owner-------becomes an endangered species.
That is the crux of the challenge facing the GBGB. And the only solution is money. So the challenge to the GBGB is to rasie more revenue and then to spend it more wisely. Offices in Holborn at north of £1m was not the best start. Nor was appointing as head honcho a bloke who played hockey.
I own several dogs and even if they run and win ( very rare) then I have a kennel bill. I don't complain. It's my choice and it gives me more pleasure than the missus. Don't tell her.
We all must pay for our hobbies and if we don't like it, find cheaper hobbies. You pays your money and takes your choice.
BUT------- how is the above going to attract new owners to the game----- which is of course where it all starts? The answer of course is that it won't . Ergo the game must be in semi terminal decline as its most important stakeholder-----the owner-------becomes an endangered species.
That is the crux of the challenge facing the GBGB. And the only solution is money. So the challenge to the GBGB is to rasie more revenue and then to spend it more wisely. Offices in Holborn at north of £1m was not the best start. Nor was appointing as head honcho a bloke who played hockey.
yer cos companys sponsor even the stakes races, ie our equivalent of graded races and can still get sponsorship
our graded races you get between 40 and 120 quid
our graded races you get between 40 and 120 quid
Fair point, I was being slightly pedantic. Been there, owned 'em, had vet bills, the lot. What I punted far outwighed the cost of a months kennel bill so really there was never any cause to complain about the end of the month - I loved it.
It changed for me, but people still think the game is the same as ten years ago - it most certainlky is not. First and foremost the owner is secondary, the evening out is the main draw for most attendees and of course the tracks and they have to concentrate on that whether or not morally right. I do think the promotion of the sport has been very poor and that should be opened up to many. Anyway we've had all this discussion before when I was more confortable as dml. The promise of the live television was very interesting but thats gone quiet.
Of course, no real hardcore greyhound man, the one that gets up every Sunday to drive miles to walk his dogs and be lied to by his trainer, wants to see the game sanitised down to basics, but it has to do exactly that, it needs to be on televison, needs massive jackpot exposure that you can put in in your local newsagent, needs people to relate to the dogs, meet them after the races, and needs exciting personalities on telly.
Thats my view, cos the 'hardcore' crowd is not enough to keep it going.
It changed for me, but people still think the game is the same as ten years ago - it most certainlky is not. First and foremost the owner is secondary, the evening out is the main draw for most attendees and of course the tracks and they have to concentrate on that whether or not morally right. I do think the promotion of the sport has been very poor and that should be opened up to many. Anyway we've had all this discussion before when I was more confortable as dml. The promise of the live television was very interesting but thats gone quiet.
Of course, no real hardcore greyhound man, the one that gets up every Sunday to drive miles to walk his dogs and be lied to by his trainer, wants to see the game sanitised down to basics, but it has to do exactly that, it needs to be on televison, needs massive jackpot exposure that you can put in in your local newsagent, needs people to relate to the dogs, meet them after the races, and needs exciting personalities on telly.
Thats my view, cos the 'hardcore' crowd is not enough to keep it going.
Overboard; to be fair, Betfair do pay into the Fund.
it really doesnt matter whos in charge, unless they have the bolux to totally rip it all up and start again.
ive owned dogs for 20 yrs, but im down to my last 2 and when they go, thats that. i cant justify it anymore. ive got no problems with the concept of paying for a hobby, but to be treated with total contempt from start to finish really shouldnt be an option.
the GBGB are totally inept, in fact most of the people who are in charge of this sport would struggle to earn any sort of living outside of it, they are so incompetent.
the hardcore dog fan is dying out and not being replaced. the promotional aspect of this sport is single-minded and consists of capturing the general public by 'getting 'em pi55ed and feeding 'em filth'. the best advertising priduct this sport has is the dogs themselves. get them into the schools, on the premis of some careers lecture and hand out tickets to BAGS meetings in the school holidays.
the sport, if u think about it, is easy to televise - how many other sports need so few cameras for an OB? how comparatively cheap is it to make, compared to horse racing, motor racing or football?
but nothing different will ever be done, whilst the bookmakers are running the show. all it needs somebody with a little bit of money and a little bit of brains and the courage to tell the big 3 to go feck themselves.
ive owned dogs for 20 yrs, but im down to my last 2 and when they go, thats that. i cant justify it anymore. ive got no problems with the concept of paying for a hobby, but to be treated with total contempt from start to finish really shouldnt be an option.
the GBGB are totally inept, in fact most of the people who are in charge of this sport would struggle to earn any sort of living outside of it, they are so incompetent.
the hardcore dog fan is dying out and not being replaced. the promotional aspect of this sport is single-minded and consists of capturing the general public by 'getting 'em pi55ed and feeding 'em filth'. the best advertising priduct this sport has is the dogs themselves. get them into the schools, on the premis of some careers lecture and hand out tickets to BAGS meetings in the school holidays.
the sport, if u think about it, is easy to televise - how many other sports need so few cameras for an OB? how comparatively cheap is it to make, compared to horse racing, motor racing or football?
but nothing different will ever be done, whilst the bookmakers are running the show. all it needs somebody with a little bit of money and a little bit of brains and the courage to tell the big 3 to go feck themselves.
Quite correct Toteboard, Betfair do indeed pay their whack, unfortunately along with the high street shops that whack is nowhere near the correct price for the product, the issue incidentally that instigated the New Deal fiasco some years back.
New Deal was in fact the most radical attempt at getting a fair deal for this sport that we are ever likely to see, the meek will never inherit the earth, thats a total myth The meek will however be offered lip service and tea and biscuits at headquarters in Holborn.
The only half decent decision to have come about since Lord Donoughues review report was the reduction in the gbgbs capital grants budget this time round, capped at 200K. However, with nothing but increasing costs coming the way of owners, trainers or breeders under the guise of welfare the sport will ultimately continue its rapid descent into oblivion.
Cant help wondering just how long it will be before the big three get their heads together and decide they can save themselves in excess of 20 million pounds a year by canceling non bookmaker Bags contracts and just supply pictures from their own tracks on the assumption that sometimes less is indeed more. Its no secret the bookmakers would dearly love to see the back of the GBGB, and I actually sympathise in that regard as the promoters hold far too much power at that level.
New Deal was in fact the most radical attempt at getting a fair deal for this sport that we are ever likely to see, the meek will never inherit the earth, thats a total myth The meek will however be offered lip service and tea and biscuits at headquarters in Holborn.
The only half decent decision to have come about since Lord Donoughues review report was the reduction in the gbgbs capital grants budget this time round, capped at 200K. However, with nothing but increasing costs coming the way of owners, trainers or breeders under the guise of welfare the sport will ultimately continue its rapid descent into oblivion.
Cant help wondering just how long it will be before the big three get their heads together and decide they can save themselves in excess of 20 million pounds a year by canceling non bookmaker Bags contracts and just supply pictures from their own tracks on the assumption that sometimes less is indeed more. Its no secret the bookmakers would dearly love to see the back of the GBGB, and I actually sympathise in that regard as the promoters hold far too much power at that level.
I agree with much of what you say wolsey and it is such a sad state of affairs.
What I would say is I think this 'paying for your hobby' line has as much to do with the decline as anything else, because of its spillover into keeping down levels of prize money.
I am happy to pay for all my hobbies, but when someone else wants to make money from it then I want a reasonable slice of the action too. I am happy to take a very small slice from those visiting a track because they are giving me something valuable back (a decent atmosphere, a viable stadium, a strong betting ring/tote). The trouble starts when my hobby is transmitted to 1,000s of people to bet on. They and their agents (LBOs/internet) just do not contribute enough for me - like you - to see the point in subsidising their hobby (betting) any further. Voluntary levy my A**e
What I would say is I think this 'paying for your hobby' line has as much to do with the decline as anything else, because of its spillover into keeping down levels of prize money.
I am happy to pay for all my hobbies, but when someone else wants to make money from it then I want a reasonable slice of the action too. I am happy to take a very small slice from those visiting a track because they are giving me something valuable back (a decent atmosphere, a viable stadium, a strong betting ring/tote). The trouble starts when my hobby is transmitted to 1,000s of people to bet on. They and their agents (LBOs/internet) just do not contribute enough for me - like you - to see the point in subsidising their hobby (betting) any further. Voluntary levy my A**e
Good post Wolsey End.......the GBGB and their predecessors the BGRB have made a complete horlicks of the sport. Unfortunately in many cases owners and trainers have stood back ( as have the press) and allowed it too happen, and even worse have actually called for the support of these types of clown.
oh and i forgot to add that the sprts trade paper is a total sham. between 6-10 pages a day and they cant be bothered to report any half decent stories.
imagine what a sensible and competent investigative reporter would be able to uncover. the sport is rotten to the core and all we get from the post, is 2 lines of form and reporting which wouldnt be good enough for a secondary school rag. u think im overstating things - have a peek at birchys blog and say it aint so.
imagine what a sensible and competent investigative reporter would be able to uncover. the sport is rotten to the core and all we get from the post, is 2 lines of form and reporting which wouldnt be good enough for a secondary school rag. u think im overstating things - have a peek at birchys blog and say it aint so.
basilbrush, greyhound racing decided ten years ago that it was better to be thrown a few scraps from the bookmakers' table than fight for the future of this great sport.
Subsequent events have shown without any question that men like Geoffrey Thomas and Jim Reynolds, who put themsleves and their careers on the line for greyhound racing during New Deal, were 100% right to do so.
The annexation of greyhound racing by the bookmaking industry has continued unabated - and until someone has the courage to stand up to the big three, the only possible fate for this great sport will be to slowly fade away until it exists only as manipulated betting shop fodder whose only function is to remove money from hapless betting shop punters...
Subsequent events have shown without any question that men like Geoffrey Thomas and Jim Reynolds, who put themsleves and their careers on the line for greyhound racing during New Deal, were 100% right to do so.
The annexation of greyhound racing by the bookmaking industry has continued unabated - and until someone has the courage to stand up to the big three, the only possible fate for this great sport will be to slowly fade away until it exists only as manipulated betting shop fodder whose only function is to remove money from hapless betting shop punters...
wolsey end, the chief correspondent for the Racing Post greyhound section was appearing on William Hill's voice network when I went in there the other day.
It suprised me, because he's never been afraid to show his teeth in the past, but how he is able to remain impartial while doing this is beyond me...
It suprised me, because he's never been afraid to show his teeth in the past, but how he is able to remain impartial while doing this is beyond me...
Have to say that I had a few letters to the RP (when it was okay) about the bigging up of certain bookmakers - they never got printed. The usual blurb that you cant slate em as they pay the advertising, which I suppose is correct.
As for the getting something back from the sport, it could happen, but unfortunately it does need to be widened out to more people, and that, in return, means that the hardcore get more peed off cos of the people that it then attracts.
Good arguments tho.
As for the getting something back from the sport, it could happen, but unfortunately it does need to be widened out to more people, and that, in return, means that the hardcore get more peed off cos of the people that it then attracts.
Good arguments tho.
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