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17 Jun 19
14:20
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Date Joined:
15 Dec 04
Thought I'd have a final rant after a really disappointing US Open. Was having a look at the winning scores from the last few years of the Pebble pro-am. Obviously not a direct comparison as two other courses are used but if anything they make it easier.
2016 - Taylor 270
2017 - Spieth 268
2018 - Potter 270
2019 - Mickelson 268
Woodland won the US Open on 271. In all four of the above tournaments that's good enough for 2nd place. In the pro-am the course is deliberately set up for mid-handicap amateurs to get round, in other words they're deliberately making it easy. I know the USGA maybe didn't have the weather to make it super-tough but they could have certainly made it more challenging what they gave us was basically no different to, or maybe even easier than, what the PGA Tour would give us if they were setting up the course for a proper pro's only event.
The players almost to a man seemed thrilled, but if they think that's a good barometer they've totally lost the plot.
2016 - Taylor 270
2017 - Spieth 268
2018 - Potter 270
2019 - Mickelson 268
Woodland won the US Open on 271. In all four of the above tournaments that's good enough for 2nd place. In the pro-am the course is deliberately set up for mid-handicap amateurs to get round, in other words they're deliberately making it easy. I know the USGA maybe didn't have the weather to make it super-tough but they could have certainly made it more challenging what they gave us was basically no different to, or maybe even easier than, what the PGA Tour would give us if they were setting up the course for a proper pro's only event.
The players almost to a man seemed thrilled, but if they think that's a good barometer they've totally lost the plot.
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I actually enjoyed the tournament (apart from the time difference!!) but I completely agree with you that the course should be set up harder. It's the US Open for God sake...if they can't have it hard this week then when can they? I think the USGA just buckled under the pressure and adopted the mantra of "we can't get this wrong" off the back of Shinnecock and Chambers bay to some extent. I think the sight of Mickelson chasing down a putt was enough to ensure we wouldn't see super-fast greens this year...they were even watered at Pebble.
The players need to get over themselves and stop whining when things don't go exactly their way....they can throw darts on many weeks with usual PGA Tour events, the US Open should be incredibly tough and need some winning. The players with the "winning" mentality accept it for what it is don't tend to moan too much. I'm sick of watching golf where an errant drive is 20 yards off the fairway and the players just walk up to it and knock it on the green out of the "heavy rough".
The players need to get over themselves and stop whining when things don't go exactly their way....they can throw darts on many weeks with usual PGA Tour events, the US Open should be incredibly tough and need some winning. The players with the "winning" mentality accept it for what it is don't tend to moan too much. I'm sick of watching golf where an errant drive is 20 yards off the fairway and the players just walk up to it and knock it on the green out of the "heavy rough".
How do you set it up to be any harder though TB? Im not sure what they could have done myself... think the weather was the biggest factor in making the course easier this weekend. Had it been dry and fast and hard, it would have been a different scenario imo.
There wasn't significant rainfall in the run up to the event, the reason it was soft and receptive was they turned the hoses on in the days before. And then it wasn't sunny enough to dry out over the weekend.
Alan Shipnuck tweeted this on day one:
@AlanShipnuck
I was afraid the USGA would overreact to the players’ endless carping and make Pebble too easy. It’s so short for the modern game it needs to play firm/fast to be an Open test. In recent days the USGA was putting on 400k gallons of water per day - that’s nearly twice the norm.
Alan Shipnuck tweeted this on day one:
@AlanShipnuck
I was afraid the USGA would overreact to the players’ endless carping and make Pebble too easy. It’s so short for the modern game it needs to play firm/fast to be an Open test. In recent days the USGA was putting on 400k gallons of water per day - that’s nearly twice the norm.
The funny thing about the pro's all saying how happy they were with the setup is that the setup probably took most of them out of it - the moment the hoses go on the big hitters benefit, as the leaderboard shows. Turkeys voting for christmas.
Ah apologies TB.. I hadn't seen that. Totally assumed it was the weather.
Agree entirely then, thats a joke! Didn't they have weather forecast apps?
Agree entirely then, thats a joke! Didn't they have weather forecast apps?
Pebble Beach (linksie on holes 6 thru 10 + 17/18, with no sand dunes so otherwise a ‘glorified’ parkland course around expensive real estate) is a different beast when the WIND BLOWS (just a pity it didn’t imvho) 
Gimme Spyglass, Spanish Bay or Cypress Pt any day 
photos on twitter before event showed greens being hosed and wide fairways.
next year might be different...
next year might be different...
USGA need some new leadership. One howler after another in recent years, totally bottled it at Shinnecock last year rendering the final day a shootout. Erin Hills a terrible venue. Chambers Bay was great viewing but the management the differing tee angles day to day and changing par on holes was a farce and the greens were horrendous.
Need to get back to basics and stop paying attention to the instagram accounts of Kevin Na and Patrick Cantlay.
Need to get back to basics and stop paying attention to the instagram accounts of Kevin Na and Patrick Cantlay.
The fact the players all loved it doesn't bode well for the future. Literally the only thing that saved them complete embarrassment was changing the 2nd to a par 4. If they played it as the par 72 it's meant to be you've got a winning score of -17 and a bunch of guys -10 or better and I think there'd be more of an outcry.
if you made the last a par 4 then woodland is -9
and only 11 guys beat par, with 3rd place being -3
lots of these tournaments looking at par 70s
and only 11 guys beat par, with 3rd place being -3
lots of these tournaments looking at par 70s
Just had a look at recent winning scores.
2011 Rory -16
2012 Simpson +1
2013 Rose +1
2014 Kaymer -9
2015 Spieth -5
2016 DJ -4
2017 Koepka -16
2018 Koepka +1
2019 Woodland -13
A few obvious ones stand out. When Rory won the place was battered by rain so not much you can do, still not that easy 2nd place was -8. Kaymer was a 2000 Tiger-esque performance, second place was -1. 2017 a very poor venue. This year a big mistake with the hoses. I forget Brooks was over par last year, if they didn't make the changes on the final day winning score might've been +5/+6.
Add to that 2015 was an experiment of sorts and rain made Oakmont in 2016 much easier that it would have been otherwise and it's not as bad as I thought.
Hopefully Winged Foot lives up to its history next year.
Still not a USGA fan, the whole not knowing what DJ's score is in 2016 remains the most ridiculous thing I've seen watching major championship golf and him winning by a distance saved their bacon in a big way.
2011 Rory -16
2012 Simpson +1
2013 Rose +1
2014 Kaymer -9
2015 Spieth -5
2016 DJ -4
2017 Koepka -16
2018 Koepka +1
2019 Woodland -13
A few obvious ones stand out. When Rory won the place was battered by rain so not much you can do, still not that easy 2nd place was -8. Kaymer was a 2000 Tiger-esque performance, second place was -1. 2017 a very poor venue. This year a big mistake with the hoses. I forget Brooks was over par last year, if they didn't make the changes on the final day winning score might've been +5/+6.
Add to that 2015 was an experiment of sorts and rain made Oakmont in 2016 much easier that it would have been otherwise and it's not as bad as I thought.
Hopefully Winged Foot lives up to its history next year.
Still not a USGA fan, the whole not knowing what DJ's score is in 2016 remains the most ridiculous thing I've seen watching major championship golf and him winning by a distance saved their bacon in a big way.
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