Stats, usefull facts and titbits Thread (ryder cup)

Very UN -Scottish when all said and done - Any advantage we could have had isn't there, In fact from the outset i'm starting to think they will be more "at home" than we will - condensed with the fact, they have run of the main hotel!!

`Mind suppose makes sense it is a PGA course!!

an interesting story from the express :-



A lion who saved the Ryder Cup


Charles Burgess - known as "Chay" - has been largely forgotten in the history of golf's most prestigious team competition.

But without the vision and drive of this Scotsman to keep the fledgling competition alive, the Ryder Cup could have died a long time ago.

Burgess - born in 1873 - joined Southern League Millwall Athletic in 1898, arriving in London's East Ferry Road after spells at home-town Montrose, Sunderland and Dundee.

He was to make 62 appearances for The Lions before going on to Newcastle United and Portsmouth where he won a Southern League winners' medal in 1902.

But it was a full 18 years after emigrating to the United States in 1910 that destiny called him to play a pivotal role arose in the survival of golf's greatest competition - to be contested for the 40th time when the continents of Europe and the US meet on Friday at Gleneagles.

In 1927, the first Ryder Cup was played at Worcester, Massachussetts with the USA thrashing Great Britain 9.5 to 2.5. It was felt that a contest in 1928 would be too costly and impractical so it was decided that the event would be played every two years. But in 1929, the US PGA once again didn't have the funds to send a team by liner across the Atlantic to England to defend the trophy.

Burgess, however, was determined to keep the cross-Atlantic competition alive so he arranged an impressive fund-raising tournament involving some of the greatest names in the history of American golf.

Walter Hagen, who was to play a pivotal role in the early history of the Ryder Cup, captaining the USA in the first six competitions, partnered Gene Sarazen. Hagen and Sarazen, the first man to win all the major titles, played against US Open Champion Johnny Farrell and Bobby Jones, who co-founded the Masters Championship. The tournament proved to be a major success - raising the $10,000 needed to send the US team, which included Farrell and Sarazen to the Moortown Golf Club in Leeds and save the Ryder Cup.

Burgess's role has largely been overlooked - but he was also one of the leading golf coaches in the world for many years and a true pioneer of the game when it was a fledgling sport in the USA.

Burgess - who was professional at Woodland Golf Club in Massachussetts - would teach stars like crooner Bing Crosby and entertainer Al Jolson and baseball legend Babe Ruth to play the game.

His first major success was as tutor to Francis Ouimet, America's first golfing hero and the first amateur to win the US Open in 1913. "Whatever progress I have made in golf I owe directly to Charlie Burgess" Ouimet admitted.

Burgess lived in Massachusetts until his death in 1960, at the age of 86, leaving his role in the Ryder Cup as his proud - if not wholly recognised - legacy.

Interesting facts donny .  Assume its correct .  Did associate the initial stages as Samuel Ryder's pet project , and I know he put his hand in his pocket to further golf .  Abe Mitchell was his pro , and adorns the top of the trophy . First golf book I ever read  was written by Mitchell, was given it by a friend of my fathers when I was starting to get interested .

Re form , goes out the window in Ryder Cup , depends on pairings etc and team spirit . I find it hard to pick out value other than in running , when you can see who is playing well ( or poorly ) .

Three strikes against the home team:
1 McDowell and McIlroy might put a brave face on it, but these guys won't be eating at the same table.
2 Westwood. Does anyone need me to elaborate? I thought not.
3 Poulter. Spectacularly arrogant, self-appointed team hero has set himself up for a fall. This 'postman' is out of form and about to get served via air mail.

Three positives for the away team:
1 Tiger Woods isn't playing.
2 Tiger Woods isn't playing.
3 Did I mention Tiger Woods isn't playing?

In 1927, the first Ryder Cup was played at Worcester, Massachussetts with the USA thrashing Great Britain 9.5 to 2.5. It was felt that a contest in 1928 would be too costly and impractical so it was decided that the event would be played every two years.

Cheating Americans!!!!!

THE UN-OFFICIAL (official imo) RYDER CUP WAS IN 1921, PLAYED AT GLENEAGLES - 12 USA V 12 BRITISH WHO STUFFED THE 9-3 !!!!!

No wonder they "forgot" that one

America is in trouble, I did think they were overpriced but three pga courses I BELIEVE correlate well with Gleneagles, there team has in the main poor form....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Players	Sawgrass	Par72	7,215yds	E	Honda	Nat Champ Course	Par 70	7,158 Yards	G	Arnie palmer	Bay Hill	par72	7,419yds
name	played	top ten	missed cut	U	name	played	top ten	missed cut	U	name	played	top ten	missed cut
phil m	21	2(1w)	6	R	phil	4	0	2	N	phil	14	4	4
rickie	5	1	3	O	rickie	5	1	2	N	rickie	4	1	1
furyk	19	4	4	P	furyk	8	4	2	A	furyk	13	2	3
mahan	8	1	3	E	mahan	3	0	2	.	mahan	11	1	3
zach j	10	2	1	.	zach	3	0	0	S	zach	11	3	1
reed	1	0	1	A	reed	2	0	0	T	reed	2	0	1
keegan	4	0	2	R	keegan	4	1	1	U	keegan	3	2	1
simpson	6	0	4	E	simpson	3	0	2	F	simpson	7	0	4
kuch	10	1w	2	.	kuch	9	w	3	F	kuch	4	0	1
spieth	1	1	0	T	spieth	0	0	0	.	spieth	0	0	0
bubba	7	0	3	O	bubba	2	0	0	E	bubba	7	0	3
walker	5	1	1	P	walker	5	1	1	M	walker	4	1	1

REMEMBER ONLY MY OPINION THESE COURSES TRANSLATE WELL

it depends how they set up the course, it may be that they set the rough up to stop the americans bombing it past us

theres not too much to worry about in the weather forecast, but some of those coming over late from usa may find it a little cold

14-18 degrees and 15mph westerlies ,

supposedly no changes in the course, mcginley asked for the johnny walker set up, but the outer rough is proper proper tough.
gunna be fun, winds from thurs onwards are apparently going to be 25mph +

Had my first bet - Poulter to be lowest point scorer for europe - Think europe will win but the bubbles gunna burst for poults, just does not seem to handle this type of course - 108 holes played, 33 over par! got to be some record "worst on course" lol

donny osmond • September 22, 2014 12:56 PM BST
it depends how they set up the course, it may be that they set the rough up to stop the americans bombing it past us

You may well be right there - cant find now but read a article said on the par 5 2nd, they have let rough grow over the corner practically in the bunker(?) which will prob stop people going for it in two.

Paul McGinley is pretty shrewd .  But so is Tom Watson .  However Paul has the last say on course set up , so that is a nominal advantage .

I dont think the Americans set as much store by the Ryder Cup as we do , evidenced by some attitudes apparent over the last number of years . They have no bad players in their 12 , but not many "go to " winners . Always like a good buckle myself , hoping it turns out so , but expect a home victory .  The odds have gone though .

there should be plenty of twitter stuff from today,

captains are being interviewed today for tv ....according to bbc

Westie doesn't like the course, playing cr@p....still picked???

Garcia never played here....i'm surprised.

US 1 up after McGinley wore that jacket this morning!

Iv'e heard that alot kelly - about usa not as crazed about it, but everything i watch they are as psyched as europe, maybe it's the fact in the past the team element has been lacking a touch, but definate changes in america the last two years, they seem much more united to me.
As i said b4, i was set to favour the americans until i saw imo, bar spieth especially a real lack of golfers suited to the type of course.

you just have to watch them trampling all over olazabals line to know their true feelings on how much it means to them

dont be kidded how many americans have won the open anyone that thinks they cant adapt to course is kidding themselves.i have studded the teams and both have out of favour players.monry has said it will be close.america massive value at 15-8 get on

Hmmmm,unsure what to do now Vegas after reading your stats.
I must admit I was going to back Poults to be Top European(I wasn't that worried about his form, as from memory this won't be the first time he's played in a Ryder Cup when he's been out of form going into it) but that course form is hard to ignore.
I may need to have a rethink

out of form players oops

Why will Mcllroy and Mcdowell not be sharing kippers for breakfast then?

stewardsenquiry - Same, I mean, iv'e been guilty of overplaying stats, quite often tbh, but that's just shocking for him, i hope europe win because i think he is going to have a mare but still might hang on to his Ryder cup hero status if they do.
Seems to transfer over to the U.S events as-well, putting all his events together, he's played in 26 Times - had 2 top tens - and his overall score is a staggering 63 over par!!!

Remember tho, the courses are of my choosing and what i think equate, in other words a proper course/stat man hasn't verified it.

every chance poulter may play with rory

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Why will Mcllroy and Mcdowell not be sharing kippers for breakfast then?

McIlroy left McDowell's firm Horizon in 2013. Trial date to sort out how much Rory is entitled to has been set for February 2015.

McDowell, BBC blog: "It's been a rough time over the last couple of years on the business side of things for both me and Rory because he has been involved with a lawsuit with my management company, and it certainly has put a stress on our relationship, but we have put those things behind us this year. If anything, our friendship has been strengthened by what we have experienced. We have talked about it, and we would certainly love to renew our partnership again."

McGinley: "I've got lots of options with them, but if I don't decide to play them together, it would be for tactical reasons. It won't be for any other reasons".

i've heard some bollox in my lifetime but i laughed pretty hard at the headline, 'united states to target poulter'.

they make golf sound like a feckin contact sport. what, they gonna rough him up with a few hip and shoulders? ffs.

http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/2/9484046/golf-the-united-stat...

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rory and Sergio heading out together in the first match on Friday .  Alternatively Rory and Gmac .

Can see Rory playing 5 times .

hills have a market on the lowest european pointscorer.

don't get why europe have gone out in 3 balls this mornings practise?

Interesting what Gmac has said about Rory this morning.

'The dynamic between the two of us has changed forever. I found the betterball with him at Medinah very difficult.'


I presume this is about McIlroy having such a longer/better game to him than any legal wrangles?

Ashleigh,

I don't think it's a bad thing going out in threesomes today. Reckon McGinley will already be 90% decided on partnerships, this way it gets the players out playing the course and concentrating on their own game for a day rather than getting in matchplay mode. It's a long week.

got one season ticket for sale if anyone is interested.

I liked the quizzical look on Watson's face when some journalist asked him if he was thinking of getting some major sports figure in to give a motivational speech to his team as Sir Alex Ferguson is doing for McGinley.

That's the difference between the two captains. Watson is a major sports figure.

could have gone out in 3 fourballs rather than 4 threeballs

more team bonding etc

more chance to mix and match, but hey ho, maybe they were playing for speed

I saw that headline too Pokeron, its a complete non-story (or the only story is that tom Watson talks total blollocks). They have no way of knowing where Mcilroy and poulter are going to play, after the draw is made and players are opposing Mcilroy and poulter, what are they supposed to do? - try harder - a totally meaningless headline that deserves no respect whatsoever

maybe they have some usa reporters targeting him with noisey cameras !

MORNING FOURBALLS.

Having a pop at predicting the line up, I'm going with less golf style and more what they need mentally.

Rory - Poulter - Rory is all grown up now, no inspiring needed and can carry poults if my suspicions are right and he struggles.

Sergio - Gallacher - Seems perfect, One experienced, one a Newbie in the Ryder cup, But heres the kicker, In course knowledge it is the polar oposite, stevie being at home literally! Just seems a no brainer for them to carry each other.

Rose - stenson - so solid a pair, no way to break through.

McDowell - Duibisson - Again experience and irons teamed with a Novice with a Driver.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beaten 14 - 13 in penalties  :((( :( :( :(

PAR posted something on another thread, which i think needs to be here as well, just in case anyone's influenced by my posts...

par • September 24, 2014 1:45 PM BST
man at course today said Poulter is playing awesome golf in practice, he said he was outscoring and outplaying everyone else.

Mickelson comment slightly below the belt???

:) :) lol had to look it up :) :) - quite witty imo, he does not seem the malicious sort to me - seen him many times lose but be applauding his opponent - i'm taking it as it was prob meant, a fun dig...

mickelson confirmed he is playing with bradley.

Lets get one thing straight here
The so called hooligan behaviour in the Ryder Cup began with the EUros
Tony Jackass and his like dancing round the greens in the 80s
Guys like Jack, Watson, Trevino were paragons of sportsmanship on the course

With the news that McGinley (with McIlroy no doubt instrumental) invited that colossal pr1ck Alex Ferguson into the camp, the fact that McIlroy and MCDowell are braggart Man Utd fans, Poulter is an obnoxious Gooner
Well it has to be
U-S-A
U-S-A
all the way for me

Also have to factor in that the last 3 editions, the US have acquitted themselves very well
Just one bad session on sat night at Celtic Manor cost them
And how they didnt win at Medina i do not know
By and large Pavin got the better of Monty, Davis wiped the floor with Olly til the singles (out of his hands)
McGinley v TW is a mismatch of Bruno Tysonesqe proportions
15/8
I'll be a yankee doodle dandy at that price

lol - Have you seen fowlers new hair-do!!!

HAS USA SHAVED INTO THE SIDE lol pretty sure it's a giggle, dunno why i like Fowler is amusing.

http://t.co/Om3GPkOjEN

wonder if one of the europeans will ask is Phil still one of the most hated players on the PGA Tour or whether his team mates still call him figjam behind his back?

my tissue is:
1.95
1.95
10

my tissue is:
1.95
1.95
10

my tissue is:
1.95
1.95
10

I think it was a superb little quip, obviously only he could have said it, with his own headlines recently, prob thought of it ages ago.
Little needling here and there is brilliant as long as everyone is careful and it's pride not anger

Here's who played with who in practice...

12-man team split up into four groups of three

McIlroy, Martin Kaymer and Sergio Garcia

McDowell, Victor Dubuisson and Henrik Stenson.

Justin Rose, Ian Poulter Stephen Gallacher,

Thomas Bjorn, Lee Westwood and Jamie Donaldson

Think were going to see alot of Gallacher, People generally see him more backseat, But i see him playing in the morning, and if he gets a win, maybe 3-4 matches. Grew up and had 7 top tens here, thats important stuff imo

THAT WAS TUESDAY - WEDNESDAYS NOW...

Rory McIlroy, Martin Kaymer, Victor Dubuisson and Graeme McDowell.

Ian Poulter ,Justin Rose, Sergio Garcia and Henrik Stenson.

Thomas Bjorn Lee Westwood Stephen Gallacher and Jamie Donaldson - in the final quartet.

soon know i suppose, does seem the last 4 are contenders as the ones to miss day 1.

USA WEDNESDAY PRACTICE ROUND PAIRING'S

Zach Johnson, Hunter Mahan, Webb Simpson and Bubba Watson.

Keegan Bradley Phil Mickelson, Rickie Fowler and Jimmy Walker.

Jim Furyk, Matt Kuchar  Patrick Reed, and Jordan Spieth.

Vegas, I think Gallagher's course form is a bit of a red herring as this course wasn't even there then! Will have played it plenty in the last few years of course, but not as much as is being made out IMO. How many of those top tens were on the Centenary course?

Tarps is right .im usualyy europe all the way .but at that price me n mate have went a grand between us on usa usa usa.someone give me a stat .out of both sides adding all tournament wins together who has most ie which team .also think both teams has players out of form .and tom watson is great in opens etc so got to be america at price me

I'd also like to point out Gallacher's career singles record in match play events. Played 7, lost 7! Quite a damning stat.

lol - i do actually look into these things, i aint just copy n pasteing...

First known as the Monarch’s Course from its 1993 opening, The PGA Centenary has matured to offer a fantastic risk-reward test perfectly suited for the matchplay format of The Ryder Cup.

Gallacher played in the 1993 opening johnie walker @ GLENEAGLES, then played again in 1999 along with his 3rd ever 2000 showing, young kid learning the game and course were his 3 Missed cuts!

I did make a mistake, he did miss again in 2006

In his last five showing since 2008, he has has 4 top tens and a 14th

ahh wasn't a mistake, i just decided not to include it as it was 2 years before he turned pro,

hadn't looked re matchplay but did have this -

Won the Scottish Amateur Match Play and Stroke Play Championships to accompany his Lytham Trophy success. Was a member of the victorious Walker Cup side at Royal Porthcawl in 1995.

Vegas, can you please explain why course form at Sawgrass, Bay Hill and PGA National is a factor here? I don't understand the link.

Hi CCM, I was of the belief that the Johnnie Walker (or whatever guise it has been played as) has always been played on the same course. It just changed it's name to the Centenary from the Monarch (expect there's been the odd change here and there).

I'm a bit of a stickler for course form in usual strokeplay tournaments, so interesting to see how it pans out in matchplay where it shouldn't in theory play such an important part.

@ RHINO - Can't think how to explain in any short way, so will ask u to imagine something...

PICK UP THE CENTENARY COURSE AND PLONK IT JUST DOWN FROM WEST VIRGINIA - THEN LOOK AT THE FLORIDA SWING AND ADD IN GLENEAGLES

Once u do that, come back and tell me it doesn't fit like a glove!!

think i mean georgia not virginia - u know what i mean, start of the florida swing basicly, which all the usa courses are on.

"Still a clear 20 hours to go until the gun goes, but stands around the first tee and down the rolling fairway packed to the scaffolding line for the final European practice group of the day. Respectful applause for Henrik Stenson, standing ovation for Justin Rose, whooping and hollering for Talisman Poulter.
"The man with the 80% winning Ryder Cup record responds by bumping his fist on chest badge and then pointing in ostentatious fashion at the panorama of support all around. That he sends his drive way left and his replacement way right rather spoils the effect, but still."

bbc

lol - bet he was gutted, always the way :)

Still got no idea vegas. Probably further away if anything. Good luck with it anyway.

u2 mate - makes "sense" in my head and put plenty of bolded warnings around posts to be happy i aint screwing no one but me :)

Hi RF and Vegas. That's right it has always been the Monarchs. But having played it pre and post the 2011 changes I think it's pretty different! I wouldn't be sure anyone with good course form before the changes would automatically be suited by the new course. The greens got loads more undulations and it was lengthened.

Probably a moot point anyway as he has shown he can play well on the course as it is

thinly veiled 'I've played at Gleneagles loads' post imo ;-)

Hmmm - ok can't catch me - good luck to you... :)

Rose & Stenson - The banker bet imo, but not doing a single, will have to stick with my man Gallacher & Poulter for the double, even tho he was the one person i don't think i wanted him paired with - hmm to be confirmed lol

Do one RF

g-mac and rory sitting beside each other opening ceremony

small talk didn't look good

Alphabetical . Think they will be paired in foursomes tomorrow afternoon .

keep a record of all my winners on here lol

morning banker came good with ease - rose/stenson was questioned by some but i kept the faith.
double with stevie BIG letdown

afty banker westy/jamie - and a double with rose/stenson

gone for afternoon  4 fold - westy/jamie - Mcdowell/dubs - rose/sten - fowler/walker

Well great 1st day for me....

morning
banker - win
double - lose (fecking poults,said was not confident but had told myself was having stevie g

afty
banker - win
double - win
4 fold - lose!! had 3 up and fowler 2 up with two to play :(((

7 matches - 5 wins - happy :)

My course form stuff done well - in american one worst two by a country mile are simpson and bubba ! on euro side worst are poults and kaymer - 1/2 a point scored all in over the 4 of em...