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Knight Rider
14 Apr 14 21:27
Date Joined: 22 Jun 02
| Topic/replies: 7,474 | Blogger: Knight Rider's blog
I hit the ball through the back of the green and upon arriving there realised there was a steep bank leading down to a river and no sign of my ball.  The river was not marked with hazard stakes or lines.  Covering the bank of the river was thick grass which is probably where the ball came to rest but I was unable to find it.  Do I:

a) Treat it as a lost ball and go back and replay the shot
b) Treat it as a lateral hazard and drop within 2 clublengths of where I estimate it went in, no nearer the hole
c) Treat it as a water hazard and drop on the other side of the river?
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Report Mighty Whites 2008 April 14, 2014 9:35 PM BST
If it wasn't marked with hazard stakes then presumably it would be the course boundary.

With no stakes to indicate a hazard then it is a lost ball or out of bounds so play the shot again from the same position plus a one shot penalty. So if it was your second into the green you would be playing four from the same spot.

Seems strange it wasn't marked as a hazard or ob
Report Wok April 14, 2014 10:57 PM BST
Even if the river was marked as a water hazard, its a lost ball, as to be in the hazard you have to be reasonably certain thats where it went and if you feel it may well be in the grass then you have doubts it went into the hazard.
Report Knight Rider April 15, 2014 3:36 PM BST
It definitely wasn't OB as there was another hole on the other side of it.  Perhaps it was marked with a line and rain had washed it off?  Anyway I suspect lost ball is the right answer, since it was probably in the grassy bank rather than the water itself.  If it had been marked, I'm almost certain the grassy bank would have been part of the hazard though.  Fortunately I was just playing a practice round on my own so it didn't really matter, just found it interesting.

Slight variant of the question, what happens if it's an unmarked hazard and you see your ball splash into the water?  Lost?  Unplayable?  Or hazard?
Report King Cally April 15, 2014 7:33 PM BST
what constitutes reasonably certain, with regard to a ball which may have gone in water?
Report Ski-Wiz April 15, 2014 9:22 PM BST
Did you read the local rules on the back of your scorecard. There could be an explanation there. A river is not part of a golf course so tend to be OOB regardless is there is another hole on the other side. So OOB and lost ball has the same penalty that is 'a) go back and replay the shot'
Report Mighty Whites 2008 April 15, 2014 9:53 PM BST
Could still have been OB even if there was a hole behind. Water is either a hazard or OOB.

The bank of the hazard would be part of it so as long as your partner agreed it went in you would get a drop. If you are on your jack jones the chuck one to six feet and imagine you hit a cracker.
Report Mighty Whites 2008 April 15, 2014 9:54 PM BST
King Cally     15 Apr 14 19:33 
what constitutes reasonably certain, with regard to a ball which may have gone in water?

Your partners have to agree where the ball cross the margin of the hazard.
Report Knight Rider April 15, 2014 10:20 PM BST

If you are on your jack jones the chuck one to six feet and imagine you hit a cracker.


Report mexicano April 16, 2014 12:23 AM BST

it dosent matter if the water had red stakes,yellow stakes,white stakes ,or no stakes. you have to proceed under the lost ball rule, as there would be a chance your ball could be in the grass.
Report Knight Rider April 16, 2014 12:29 AM BST
Well Mex I think it would matter, because if there were stakes they would almost certainly have been outside the thick grass on the bank of the river.  I guess that was my question, if a hazard is unmarked, how do you determine what is the boundary of the hazard, or does it just not count as a hazard at all?
Report mexicano April 16, 2014 9:32 AM BST
it is a question of fact whether a ball is in a hazard or not. it must be known "or virtually certain" that the ball is in the hazard, or the ball is deemed to be lost.

re whether it's marked or not , if the bank was shaved  and you were "virtually certain"it was in there ithink you'd proceed as if it was a frontal hazard [yellow] .

did you not enquire after the round?
Report Knight Rider April 16, 2014 3:03 PM BST
No I didn't Mex, it was just a practice round so I was just asking out of interest really.
Report Jimmy Diamond April 16, 2014 8:59 PM BST
Is the river intended to be a hazard though?

I had this situation in the club championship last year because i ended up in a small lateral water hazard  where the stakes had been taken (probably by the local youths!)

I ended up playing two balls, one as though it was a hazard and one as though i was playing an unplayable for if it wasnt deemed a water hazard (i could get at the ball).

Had to consult the committee for a ruling before signing my card. They confirmed it was a hazard even though not currently marked as such.
Report trebor April 18, 2014 1:02 PM BST
I am struggling to see the problem here, we all watch enough golf to know what to do in this situation, we call for a referee to determine that we drop the ball in the correct spot whilst taking relief from what can only be casual water.
We have of course practiced our technique of getting 95% of our weight onto one foot whilst looking as if standing normally and in doing so manage to find that the nearest point of relief is just where we want it to be. player happy, ref satisfied, simples Happy
As I typed that it just occurred to me how unfair that rule can be, the fatter someone is the better relief they can get!

Or you can take the more sensible answer which is that any unmarked water hazard has to be declared a lateral water hazard and if no line to determine edge of hazard you take the break of the ground into the hazard as the edge, meaning that all banks / slopes are inside the hazard.
When there are posts around a hazard they are there to show that there is a water hazard there and not indicating the edge of a hazard, there should be a line on the ground to indicate the edge.
Report bannahan April 18, 2014 7:20 PM BST
Throw one on (nobody watching Tongue Out)

Nice 2 Wink
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