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That blimp view/replay looks like he crossed into hazard way further back (not far from the teebox) compared to where he dropped - maybe the camera angle made it look wrong?
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Agree totally, look like it was never near dry land.
what's the rule? You take the drop at the point or further back from where it crossed over water? What are the red stakes for ?
Point of entry. He's covered though as playing partner and officials gave the tick of approval.
Would have been interesting if Sergio was his playing partner rather than Wittenberg.
Red stake = lateral water hazard. The rules are way too complex for my puny brain to understand but agree that putting wittenberg in a position to take issue with the worlds no.1 or not makes a total farce of the whole thing
They want him back, twice in a month he has had a kind ruling
seemed fair,had a wild shape,started right before losing it left
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B5SL57mef4E
Howard Clark said the drop was correct , how can you question it after that ?
I don't think that video really proves anything one way or the other. Shame they don't have better camera angles.
its a hard one, the camera shoes it as going straight over water from tee but if you look at the people they all look to the right down the fairway then groan like it was a massive hook.
no way was there a hook on that ball....the head on shot shows clearly it went directly over water....
Bottom line: Woods didnt break any rule here, he dropped where he said he thought the point of entry was, & officials and his playing partner backed him up. Bottom line.
But here's the thing: Tiger is the one who has to live with the situation, if he knowingly cheated to improve his position then that's down to him. Remember a few years ago someone had placed Darren Clarke's ball in a more favourable position after a stoppage for play, the first thing Clarke did was to play a penalty shot against himself. This happens at all levels of the game: some guys will always make sure to give themselves the benefit of the doubt, others will go harder on themselves than needs be to eradicate any suspicion. Tiger hasn't won 14 majors by following the latter course
But here's the thing: Tiger is the one who has to live with the situation, if he knowingly cheated to improve his position then that's down to him. Remember a few years ago someone had placed Darren Clarke's ball in a more favourable position after a stoppage for play, the first thing Clarke did was to play a penalty shot against himself. This happens at all levels of the game: some guys will always make sure to give themselves the benefit of the doubt, others will go harder on themselves than needs be to eradicate any suspicion. Tiger hasn't won 14 majors by following the latter course
dosen't look too good does it.
i, and most of the players i play with tend to err on the cautious [rather than most favourable to us]side in such an eventuality.
some would call it profesionalism i suppose
.
i, and most of the players i play with tend to err on the cautious [rather than most favourable to us]side in such an eventuality.
some would call it profesionalism i suppose
.
live with it, ? i dont think he cares
win at all costs with tiger.. and puts the sergio thing into a different light too
i was shocked at his behaviour playing with y-e yang in the pga
i do hope the others dont take his attitude...
win at all costs with tiger.. and puts the sergio thing into a different light too
i was shocked at his behaviour playing with y-e yang in the pga
i do hope the others dont take his attitude...
just looked at that youtube clip again.
unfortunatly cant see where the yellow stakes become red at the front of the tee.
it seems to me from the overhead that his ball could well have gone between two yellow stakes at the front of the tee, in which case his drop would have been at the front of the tee.
even if it did cross the lateral part of the hazard the drop was well in advance of where it crossed.
unfortunatly cant see where the yellow stakes become red at the front of the tee.
it seems to me from the overhead that his ball could well have gone between two yellow stakes at the front of the tee, in which case his drop would have been at the front of the tee.
even if it did cross the lateral part of the hazard the drop was well in advance of where it crossed.
gentlemanjohn 13 May 13 17:20
Bottom line: Woods didnt break any rule here, he dropped where he said he thought the point of entry was, & officials and his playing partner backed him up. Bottom line.
But here's the thing: Tiger is the one who has to live with the situation, if he knowingly cheated to improve his position then that's down to him. Remember a few years ago someone had placed Darren Clarke's ball in a more favourable position after a stoppage for play, the first thing Clarke did was to play a penalty shot against himself.
Yep that was in the Irish Open
Bottom line: Woods didnt break any rule here, he dropped where he said he thought the point of entry was, & officials and his playing partner backed him up. Bottom line.
But here's the thing: Tiger is the one who has to live with the situation, if he knowingly cheated to improve his position then that's down to him. Remember a few years ago someone had placed Darren Clarke's ball in a more favourable position after a stoppage for play, the first thing Clarke did was to play a penalty shot against himself.
Yep that was in the Irish Open
as i recall clarke had to drop the ball after a break in play, the lie was so much better than the original lie that he could have executed a shot to the green, but he elected to chip the ball out to approximatly where he could have got it from his original lie.
true sportsmanship.
or are you talking about a differnt time?
i wonder what tiger would have done in such a situation?
no i don't, i know what he would have done.
true sportsmanship.
or are you talking about a differnt time?
i wonder what tiger would have done in such a situation?
no i don't, i know what he would have done.
Of note is the way that NBC's commentators first describe the shot's arc as sailing out over water almost immediately. They then backpedal rapidly when Woods takes his drop. All except curmudgeonly, never-met-a-golfer-he-didn't-dislike Johnny Miller, of course.
"That Tiger drop was really, really borderline," Miller said. "I can't live with myself without saying that."
The PGA Tour, sensing an Augusta-style controversy brewing, issued a statement while Woods was still on the course. It read, in full:
"Without definitive evidence, the point where Woods' ball last crossed the lateral water hazard is determined through best judgement by Woods and his fellow competitor. If that point later proves to be a wrong point (through television or other means), the player is not penalized by Rule 26-1 given the fact that a competitor would risk incurring a penalty every time he makes an honest judgment as to the point where his ball last crosses a water-hazard margin and that judgment subsequently proves incorrect (Decision 26-1/17)."
Garcia has been accused of cheating on number 10. And he has previous for being accused of cheating at the players.
"That Tiger drop was really, really borderline," Miller said. "I can't live with myself without saying that."
The PGA Tour, sensing an Augusta-style controversy brewing, issued a statement while Woods was still on the course. It read, in full:
"Without definitive evidence, the point where Woods' ball last crossed the lateral water hazard is determined through best judgement by Woods and his fellow competitor. If that point later proves to be a wrong point (through television or other means), the player is not penalized by Rule 26-1 given the fact that a competitor would risk incurring a penalty every time he makes an honest judgment as to the point where his ball last crosses a water-hazard margin and that judgment subsequently proves incorrect (Decision 26-1/17)."
Garcia has been accused of cheating on number 10. And he has previous for being accused of cheating at the players.
This is Wittenberg's quote.
Woods’ playing partner, Casey Wittenberg, said after the round that that was not the case.
“No, not at all. I saw it perfectly off the tee,” he said. “We talked to each other. He asked me exactly where it crossed. I told him I thought it crossed on the corner of the bunker right where he took his drop, and it’s all good.
“There is no doubt, guys. The ball crossed where he dropped.”
Woods’ playing partner, Casey Wittenberg, said after the round that that was not the case.
“No, not at all. I saw it perfectly off the tee,” he said. “We talked to each other. He asked me exactly where it crossed. I told him I thought it crossed on the corner of the bunker right where he took his drop, and it’s all good.
“There is no doubt, guys. The ball crossed where he dropped.”
There have been a few of these drops in recent weeks where the player seems to have got an advantage. It doesn't look brilliant and i was surprised he didn't go back further. The incident probably didn't make much difference as Woods took a double bogey six on the hole.
the rule says that the player must drop within two clublengths of where it last crossed the hazard.
where he dropped it was nowhere near the correct point.
i find that rather bizarre that a professional golfer should be that far out.
where he dropped it was nowhere near the correct point.
i find that rather bizarre that a professional golfer should be that far out.
as i recall clarke had to drop the ball after a break in play, the lie was so much better than the original lie that he could have executed a shot to the green, but he elected to chip the ball out to approximatly where he could have got it from his original lie.
true sportsmanship.
or are you talking about a differnt time?
i wonder what tiger would have done in such a situation?
no i don't, i know what he would have done.
That's the one i was referring to, different circumstances to Woods but precisely the same principle. Let's not forget either that good old Monty himself was faced with the same situation at a very critical point in his career (Ryder Cup spot on the line perhaps??) & chose to play with his lie significantly improved. As the chap says in that video posted above, 95% of golfers would probably have done the same, absolute integrity is a tough and expensive thing to have on the golf course
true sportsmanship.
or are you talking about a differnt time?
i wonder what tiger would have done in such a situation?
no i don't, i know what he would have done.
That's the one i was referring to, different circumstances to Woods but precisely the same principle. Let's not forget either that good old Monty himself was faced with the same situation at a very critical point in his career (Ryder Cup spot on the line perhaps??) & chose to play with his lie significantly improved. As the chap says in that video posted above, 95% of golfers would probably have done the same, absolute integrity is a tough and expensive thing to have on the golf course
given the amount of money and prestige involved and the commercial profile of the sport, is n't it time there was more proactive officiating and less self policing?
The only proactive officiating I've seen in recent weeks was the pathetic, low rent persecution of a 14 year old kid - by the way, Woods and Wittenberg hung around for ages waiting for Palmer and Stenson yesterday.
I could n't tell you whether Woods drop was inappropriate yday - and as pointed out earlier he made 6 anyway so it probably did n't matter - but it should n't be left to him and his playing partner to determine where he drops it - it should n't be necessary either given the technolgy available now.
It's a bit like letting Suarez decide whether it's a free kick or a penalty when he is brought down/dives on the edge of the box.
The only proactive officiating I've seen in recent weeks was the pathetic, low rent persecution of a 14 year old kid - by the way, Woods and Wittenberg hung around for ages waiting for Palmer and Stenson yesterday.
I could n't tell you whether Woods drop was inappropriate yday - and as pointed out earlier he made 6 anyway so it probably did n't matter - but it should n't be left to him and his playing partner to determine where he drops it - it should n't be necessary either given the technolgy available now.
It's a bit like letting Suarez decide whether it's a free kick or a penalty when he is brought down/dives on the edge of the box.
Agree rease im amazed the players can just agree a drop often when neither has a clue.
i really dont think it would be that much of a hardship for the tour to either have an official assigned to each hole at a tournament and his job is to officiate all drops ect rather than players deciding whats ok, slowing down the play could be the only issue as thats the last thing we need nowadays!
If he's gone miles left then he's probably hooked it. Which means at the end it's going almost sideways. Too much is being read into the fact the commentator didn't say the word "hook". Also the view from the blimp tells you nothing. It won't be directly overhead and if it's even slightly to the side the ball may look as though it is over the water when it isn't.
Tiger may or may not have cheated but there is absolutely no evidence so far to say that he did. Until someone produces some, he has to be presumed innocent.
Tiger may or may not have cheated but there is absolutely no evidence so far to say that he did. Until someone produces some, he has to be presumed innocent.
if he made par, yes. If he made bogey, maby have a go, but the guy took a 6, he probably would have made a 6 or even a 5 if he had to lay it up. He also won by 2 shots. Its done, its in the past. Get on with life again
Seems like Woods also didnt ask the Marshalls about Sergio having played his shot....
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/according-marshals-tpc-sawgrass-tiger-woods-never-asked-015005268.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/according-marshals-tpc-sawgrass-tiger-woods-never-asked-015005268.html
It barely went across any of the dry land and he dropped it not too far from where it ended in the water.
As a player you know where the ball has crossed.
As a player you know where the ball has crossed.
It's not down to Tiger to ulitmately decide where the drop should take place.It's a combination of the officials,playing partner(s) and Tiger himself.Tiger had the full support of the official and playing partner so why shouldn't he play it from where he thinks it crossed the hazard?.He's the most watched golfer that has ever lived and the chances of him getting away with a fart are non existent,nevermind dropping 150 yards futher forward than it should have been.If officials and partners are weak,he'll continue to "bend" the rules.
As for comparing the Darren Clarke incident,a bit of perspective is needed.Clarke is a jovial type of chap,decent player although certainly under-achieved given his talent and the type of man we'd all like a pint with.Tiger,on the other hand,is a ruthless,selfish,quite ignorant winning machine who'll bend(and break if possible) every rule out there if he thinks it will help him win the tournament.He'd stamp on his oldest friend if it gave him another major and that's just the way he is.Clarke and Woods maybe friends off course but they're chalk and cheese on it.
As for comparing the Darren Clarke incident,a bit of perspective is needed.Clarke is a jovial type of chap,decent player although certainly under-achieved given his talent and the type of man we'd all like a pint with.Tiger,on the other hand,is a ruthless,selfish,quite ignorant winning machine who'll bend(and break if possible) every rule out there if he thinks it will help him win the tournament.He'd stamp on his oldest friend if it gave him another major and that's just the way he is.Clarke and Woods maybe friends off course but they're chalk and cheese on it.
Could`nt think of a more boring golfer than Clarke to have a pint with!...^^^as for him being a jovial type all you ever see on Sky is him walking off of a green muttering to himself after missing another putt.....when i think about him winning The Open i still have to pinch myself.....
So you'd rather have a pint with Bradley Dredge ????
Darren comes across as a crackin' fella to me. Quality golfer on his day, who has been through some tough times, and come out smiling.
Darren comes across as a crackin' fella to me. Quality golfer on his day, who has been through some tough times, and come out smiling.
Maggot fair enough but i just dont like the guy thats all....lots of people have been through tough times and several of them handle those times with little finance behind them....
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