Is The European Tour Doomed

Well maybe the Chinese will get the 'live' scoreboard working...............

they cant compete with usa prize money levels

sky pump most of their money into football and continue to show golf not quite live so it fits in with their ad breaks


usa have lost their biggest draw, a supreme tiger, so need to attract the cream of the worlds talent to keep the sponsors happy

who knows maybe the us and european tours will end up on the same scrapheap


look at athletics, is anyone in europe bothered about watching their homegrowns beaten by robotic africans ??

The US Tour are a step ahead of us and hence their new focus on courting Asia, which is where the real money will come from going forward. We have co sanctioned events right now in Asia but they also are eying up a larger partner in the USA so watch this space. In two or three years time the current co sanctioned Asian events will in futur be co sanctioned with the USA in my view.

interesting thread GD.

I do think that the Europeans as mentioned above do split their time currently between both tours and let's not forget that Olly changed the Ryder Cup qualification criteria to give more emphasis to the European Tour this year.

I agree to a certain extent, like most things it's driven by money and I'm not sure being overly reliant on the millions pumped in to the tour by Dubai is the best long term strategy.

Could we end up seeing a 'World Tour'?

Too many tournament are played in countries that have little interest in golf.......one in England IS diabolical......tournaments in the far east and Africa are not 'European' and largely pointless.

Good thread topic.

I personally think the Euro tour has been a stepping stone for some time.The prizemoney,ranking points,weather,courses all favour the US tour although it wont really effect the future of European Golf because theres plenty of exceptional youngsters coming through on to the European Tour and if they decide to move to the US once they become a top 20 player,so be it.I think the production line for European players is in a pretty healthy condition.

No time now but i hope to join in what could be a decent debate a bit later

Ski...   There was a time when every country out here, with the exception of the U.K. had "little interest in golf". The more it's promoted, the better.

And,of course,the Asian countries chuck enough money at a tournament to make your eyes bleed.

Doesn't help having our flagship Euro tour event being played at Wentworth either.A course,and surrounding area,so far stuck up it's own a*se you couldn't pick a more "exclusive" club if you tried.The fact the Euro tour has it's headquarters there tells you everything you need to know about them and their target of "reaching out" to less privilaged kids in particular.

Also,the course condition has become a joke the past few years.

Re having so few tournaments in the UK. You only have to look out of the window today to see the problems you can encounter.

I used to really enjoy a couple of days at the events in England. I remember going to Fulford, Lindrick, Ganton and in the 1970's and 1980's, Sunningdale, St Mellion, Forest of Arden, The Oxfordshire and of course The Belfry in the 1990's. Not to mention Wentworth of course. The crowds were always decent and knowledgeable, it was good fun even when the sun stayed away.

When you look at the foreign tournaments on TV you sometimes have to play 'spot the spectator'. It is a great shame there is virtually nothing left in a country where people would still love to see some action.

Went to St Pierre a few times as well, which was nice even if it was in Wales.

2 events in England this year...Royal Lytham & St Annes?

used to have golf up here at slaley hall, now they host the seniors tour instead

The PGA Tour have just opened an office in the far east, why / They are courting the Asian Tour as they see China as the furture investor and powerhouse of world golf. Meantime the old farts at Wentworth sip a large brandy and pat each other on the back at what a great job they have done.

Think that is a bit harsh. The deal with dubai/middle east is probably as good as they can do.

The european tour has always been second to the PGA. The top players have barely set foot on european soil in recent years. Without the events outside europe the season would only run from april to october.

The european tour will continue to survive but will become more of a stepping stone for talented youngsters who aim for the big time. Only 150 get a PGA tour so there will always be players who need a home.

As for an Asian tour that could rival the PGA tour i don't think money alone could do it. They will need some top players of their own. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility in 20 years the top players are predominately asian playing in asia. I can't see a day the PGA tour isn't the place to be.

St Mellions,Forest of Arden and my local St Pierre.......all great memories and I guarantee those tournaments would be attended a lot better than some of the tournaments on the euro tour now.

The Asian tour will become more powerful over the next 10-20 years with an undoubted world no1 coming from that area but as a few have pointed out,the culture and status of the PGA tour is still better suited to top Europeans wanting to switch rather than the more lucrative Asian tour.You can settle a young family much easier in Florida compared to Beijing.

The americans also have the most depth. 11 of the top 20 and 34 of the top 100 are American.

They have a college system churning out top youngsters not only americans but global players. For the considerable future many top asians will head to the US before they even reach college age. They have the perfect climate and best facilities. 14 year old zhang is a good example. His golf took him to the US at 10.

Crowds and atmosphere make all the difference.

Next week's Irish Open is sold out, they're expecting 100K people over 4 days, there will be atmosphere, some of the big names (irish only of course, and Keegan, who we're claiming).  It's one of the few european tour events that I would like to watch.

Watching events with more rules officials than spectators is soul destroying.  What countries outside of the British Isles have really embraced golf as a sport?

Look at the US tournaments, no matter how crap the line-up they tend to get good crowds (maybe because the tournaments have history and it's traditional to attend and have a few beers - Scotsdale for example (same day as the superbowl normally, yet it's always packed and raucous). 

For me personally, I watch US golf most weekends, but rarely watch more than a few holes of European golf, of course the timing suits me better as I wouldn't waste a sunday afternoon watching a day's golf either.

I often wonder why sponsor throw so much into some tournaments, and it must be getting harder and will become harder again, once regional tourism boards figure out that their sponsorship hasn't yielded the returns they'd hoped for in terms of visitors.

The Koreans are the best Asians at golf .  So seen on the ladies tour in particular .

The USA college system has been used by a lot of players / countries not domestic to the system , might increase foreseeably . And taking tennis as a model there is a big danger that the USA system will be more use to those coming from outside those shores than internally .

The structure of the European tour has become skewed away from the supporters and knowledgeable golfing public in favour of where the money is . This is partly to do with those who run the European tour  , and in common with the political will and mantra associated / embedded with life in these isles , the only criteria is money . There is a public will for spectating at golf in these isles , bookings for next weeks Irish Open amd the Open indicate this  , but weather/ money / sponsorship decree that we only deserve a limited number of tournaments locally .

Tournaments throughout the year are being "bought" essentially by the highest bidder , and in economic circumstances such as are prevalent at the moment the money available "locally" is not up to the mark . Analagous to the horse racing industry , where the prize money in UK ( not Ireland ) is ludicrously low and will slowly but surely lead to a severe downturn in the industry . Its the way of the world unfortunately , not sure where it all finishes up .

Only other comment I would venture to make , is that despite the system and infrastructure in USA they are not producing players at the level of their former greats .  If you take Tiger out of the mix that comment becomes particularly significant . They have lots of good players , but greats ....?  My observation can be to a certain extent be validated by the fact that in team competitions the USA have lost their grasp on 4 of the competitions traditionally associated with inter country / continent endeavour .

great comments and interesting that there is an underlying memory of large crowds for golf events in the UK. I remember seeing Faldo win at Ganton and the crowds were huge back then. The events in China seem inevitable as their wealthy public show an aspiration to play western games and golf fits the profile they seek for themselves. Down side is that the crowds are scarce and with so much building near the course that at one of their events earlier this year it actually looked like there was a digger for a hole in one rather than a car.

An insider told me that Volvo had seen an increase of 22% in car sales in China which they associated directly to the link with sponsoring in china. The TV audience is vital and thats whu sponsors appear to have little worry about how many people are on the ground at an event even if it saddens me. I fear we may be in for more of the same for some tome to come.

As others have said Golfdaft,a good subject topic you have brought up here.

For all that it's important to get sponsors on board these days,for me The European Tour have just taken it too far in pursuit of money and lost sight of what they should be about.Providing top class golf on european soil for players and spectators alike,to enjoy on a regular basis.It stopped being a european tour a long time ago which is a pity.Agents,players etc can also accept part of the blame as well for the tour starting to be dominiated by Far East events.It's all about money and they'll go wherever has the biggest purse or appearance fee.

As for The European Tour,just look at the last 2 Ryder Cups.Hosted by those 2 courses which really sum up the history and tradition of golf in Europe...eh The K Club and Celtic Manor.Funny how both the owners of those courses happened to be owned by 2 influental owners with pots of cash.

Another thing The European Tour always bangs on about is how it's about the next generation and bringing kids into golf.Well if any of those kids happen to make it as a pro and got their card through Q-School,they won't get many starts in their first season on tour due to the amount of co-sanctioned events.Look at some of the guys who got cards at Q-School last year and see how many starts they've got as we enter July.How many of them on their first season on tour can take the chance and afford to travel to places like Malaysia etc when they're only 2nd reserve to get in?

Rhree , not up to date on the arrangements for emergent pros these days , but the overheads in terms of travel / accomodation must be huge . An acquaintance of ours caddied for a multiple Major winner some years ago and by choice then they stayed in a B& B near the course ( Portmarnock mainly on our shores  then) .  Far cry from nowadays . Most of the younger( semi succesful ) pros would not know what a B & B was .

three_for_it has hit the nail on the head in one of the points he raises.

These co-sanctioned events are a bloody joke for the European Tour players who have come through the Challenge Tour or Q-School

I went over to Malaysia this year with a good mate of mine who is a regular contributor to this forum in the hope/understanding that his son made it into the tournament (he was a Top 10 Challenge Tour Graduate), well he finished below the red line and didn't make it, obviously no one from the Qualifying School made it into Malaysia either, instead we had a raft of local Asian Tour players and 'regional invites', the standard was very poor!

Basically you need to be making Top 10 each week to guarantee your playing rights the following week if you have come through Q-School!

this next month is what the euro tour is all about, the us tour has always been the main event

stop yer crying and accept it

European Tour should consider kicking these players back down to the Challenge Tour:
FERRIE K
MARTIN P
CAMPBELL M
HULDAHL J
Free up enough places for about 8 younger players to have 5 cracks each at establishing themselves.

Oops, missed out DOUGHERTY N - he should be relegated 2 divisions if that is at all possible.

Bit harsh on Ferrie as he won last year and Huldahl and Dougherty are already playing on the Challenge Tour

Fair play - Huldahl and Dougherty each had 2 starts on main tour this year ( 1 each at St Omer, and 1 each somewhere else, so not depriving many newcomers of a chance ).

It would be interesting though if gold could make its promotion and relegation system a bit more dramatic: the end of season Q-school series drags on a bit, and those losing their card don't seem to get much attention. Perhaps an in-season system where 5 missed cuts in a row gets you relegated, and 5 made cuts in a row gets you promoted. It might concentrate the mind of a certain Rory lad who has recently been concerned more about appearance fees and tennis it seems. Would certainly make for some dramatic Friday afternoons.

love the posts on here and have to agree with the short change position for those lads arriving via Q School. The sad fact remains that unless you are affiliated to one of the top agents, like Chubby, then you have little chance of a start on the main tour. The likes of Chubby put huge demands on tournament directors for extra places for their "young" pro`s and he has the ammunition to negotiate when he has such a strong hand of top stars to barter with.

I also agree with the point made earlier about the Ryder Cup venues, no history or tradition here in our more recent selections.

Great idea to have a greater emphasis on the promotion and relegation of players and perhaps more often that at the season end. Given that the committe who would adjudicate on such changes is anchored by ageing players who largely have drifted around the top 100 mark, its unlikely that they will ever seek to vote for anything that would jeopardise their own earnings, its a boys club run for the boys.

Only other comment I would venture to make , is that despite the system and infrastructure in USA they are not producing players at the level of their former greats .

I don't think any system can produce great players. They have something special that can't be taught. The US College system is still churning out plenty of top players. The current world number one went through their system. There looks to be a lot of good kids coming through. In my view the bar for the average/good player is higher now than in the past.

As regards the events in asia, the majority of these are in the european off season. Thirty years ago the european tour ran from april to october. These events are in the main not replacing european ones. The biggest problem for the european tour is the lack of sponsors. With the current financial crisis this is unlikely to get better. In August the height of the european summer there are three consecutive weeks with no events on european soil. I notice the Czech open is no more.

I spent the day at Mere GC yesterday for Open Qualifying. 140 odd young pros and amateur's battling it out for 13 spots to take to regional qualifying. 69 was the leading score when I left (Par 71) on as good a conditions day you'll get. Going to be very tough for a lot of these to make it in the game.

Bumped into Simon Wakefield's dad who was talking about the difficulties on the European Tour of just getting a regular start.

14 scores in the 90's, and over 100 NR's, with only Pro's and scratch or better allowed. Maurice Flitcroft might have beat some of these with his half set of Pinseekers!!

I was there following a friend whose an amateur off +0.8 so he's got a long way to go. Plenty of 'playing pros' in attendance, very average.

Cant agree with your remarks Mighty Whites 2008. The extension of the European Tour into Asia and beyond form what was a more traditional series of regular European events between April and October, has robbed mainland Europe of many golf events. The fact remains that most pro players tee it up around 26 - 28 events per year and naturally their sponsors and their agents want them in the flagship and best paying events. Appearance money is huge for many of the top players in Asia and they are perfectly happy to sidestep more traditional main land European events in favour of a payday.

The other key point is that The European Tour executives are in my view being outflanked by their US counterparts when it comes to succession planning. Its my view that the Asian Tour and The US Tour will soon form an alliance that may well see a significant financial decline in the fortunes of The European Tour. This will result in smaller prize funds, unfunded events and more top players leaving to play stateside and in Asia where the big money is lurking.

if that happens golfdaft, the eurotour would end up in competition with the nationwide tour

as there are obviously only so many spots on the main tour in america.

A good thread this one....
European tour all but finished!...not even sure how they get away with calling it the European tour..

The first main reason is of course money...50% of US PGA golf is shown on terrestrial tv in the USA ..v's 6 days in this country ...no wonder sponsors,don't wont to get involved..

Travel for the players ..what would you do if you were Lee Westwood...spend sometimes days travelling to an event or pop on your private jet and be home for Sunday dinner..

Course set up and conditions..This years BMW at Wentworth the European flag ship event..I walked inside the ropes in the Pro am...dear oh dear those greens were shocking...

Gap in player quality...Take someone like Ian Poulter ranked 10th in europeantour all time earnings..To my knowledge hasn't come close to winning a PGA tour stroke play event in 5 years...and just about kept his card the last 2 years.

The gap in the two tours is only going to go one way ...the PGA Tour last year sold a ten year tv deal and as MW has already said the European tour can't event put an event on for 3 weeks....Doomed no, finished Yes...

Good post Hacker.

The fact remains that Europe are going to keep on producing top players for many a year but whereas those players would,in years gone by,establish themselves on the Euro tour and then,maybe,once they reached top 20 in the world they would move to play the PGA tour,nowadays the young (exceptional)Europeans are barely having 2 seasons on the Euro tour before moving to the states and the European kids who go to college over there dont even bother with the Euro tour.

All this means that the Euro tour is missing out on the early years of say a Rory or Luke to bolster the profile(sponsors) of the tour whereas in previous years they had Monty,Westwood even Garcia for his best years to guarantee high profile Euro events(again,what the sponsors demand)

All in all,like Hacker points out,the Euro tour as we know and love,is practically finished

One very disappointing fact is ..SKY who have 98% of the coverage...put zip back into the game and  The OPEN will be the next to go...Such a shame..This has to have an effect on the growth of the game in this country...I like many of us grow up watching the likes of Sevey and falling in love with the game...
I firmly believe the next crop of future stars will come from the USA ans Asia...If you manage to get your card on the European tour ..see how hard it is to get sponsorship..not to be confused with impossible!
They back their talent in the USA and Asia ...we sadly don't..

Sky must be paying a fair amount for the picture rights ? How much golf did we get to see before Sky came a long ?

Sky have got the Euro tour by the balls because they(sky) know BBC/ITV dont want the full tour and can you imagine Golf on channel 5?

As it's been pointed out many times on this thread,it's sponsors that make a tour and,sadly,the majority of Euro tour events these days are glorified challenge tour events and very few blue chip companies will splash out big for those

The bookmakers are all over the European Tour like a rash, to this point the top brass at Wentworth will not play ball, too worried that the Dubai money would dry up if a bookmaker sponsored an event directly. Whether they like it or not, sometime soon they will need to find a way to make this work and embrace the bookmaker cash.

A couple of points about bookies sponsoring Euro tour events.Firstly,there's a real possibility Golf will go down the darts route if bookies get involved.Darts is now being hailed as the blueprint for all struggling sports and the bookies will try and "promote" a tournament the likes of Volvo,BMW etc wouldn't dream of.Not saying it's a bad thing but,personally,the thought of P.P0wer's or betfr£d getting involved in the euro tour wouldn't sit nicely with me.

Secondly,can you honestly see the G&T brigade at Wentworth HQ having to associate themselves with the likes of Fredrick Done???!!!!

No,they amble on selling their souls to Dubai/Asia as long as they get to keep their comfy offices and their illusions of power/control whilst the Europe aspect of the Euro tour will be limited to around 5 events per year.

In my opinion

Frames it depends if you have Sky..Yes tons more golf if you have Sky and zip if you don't...not sure of the numbers but i'm guessing 50% of the UK don't have sky sports.So half of the UK population have no idea what going on in the golfing world...This must also have a massive effect on the sponsor side of the European tour..
If i was runniing the European tour i'd be less fussy who sponsors an event...You only had to see the crowds at wenthworth this year to realise that the British public love a day out at the golf..

Bookmakers have sponsored events in the past in golf and i don't see why they couldn't again.I've been watching and betting on golf for around 20 years and one of my all time favourite events(mainly down to the course)was the old Victor Chandler Masters at Woburn.I think it ran for about 4 or 5 years in the late 90's until about 2002.If you watch the likes of Spanish football on tv,most of the advertising boards around the pitch are online bookie adverts and half the teams seem to be sponsored by the same on their shirts.It's a sector golf should be embracing.

People have written it elsewhere on this thread but the lack of tournaments in England where the tour is officially based is laughable.As it stands just now,any year The Open Championship is held in Scotland,England will be left with just one event.The PGA at Wentworth.That's just not right...and that's coming from a Scotsman!

If you had asked me 10 years ago i really thought by now we would be seeing a few more tour events in Eastern Europe,especially Russia.We've flirted with it on and off but for some reason it's never really happened.We court the Chinese at every opportunity due to their large population/consumer base but i think in Russia there's a country in Europe that's never really been properly tapped.The Paddy Power Dagestan Invitational has a great ring to it!

Not sure that the Ryder Cup will be a big deal for much longer either, vast majority of US based Euro players have more in common with the American Dream than battling Seve style against the odds...Olly will keep the spirit going this year but contests may not be the same after that...

Cant agree with your remarks Mighty Whites 2008. The extension of the European Tour into Asia and beyond form what was a more traditional series of regular European events between April and October, has robbed mainland Europe of many golf events.

You could argue that some sponsors now sponsor an event in asia rather than one on mainland europe but i doubt this is a major problem.

The fact remains that most pro players tee it up around 26 - 28 events per year and naturally their sponsors and their agents want them in the flagship and best paying events. Appearance money is huge for many of the top players in Asia and they are perfectly happy to sidestep more traditional main land European events in favour of a payday.

Only the top guys get appearance money. It is paid in Europe and Asia but not on the PGA tour. Europe lacks sponsors not surprising when you see the financial meltdown on the mainland. It costs a lot to put on an event. Even the piddly events have million pound prize funds.

26 - 28 events in 6months is practically impossible. If players want to play this often then they need to get on a plane and travel. You can't hold events in February, March etc in europe due to the weather, course condition and light issues.

The other key point is that The European Tour executives are in my view being outflanked by their US counterparts when it comes to succession planning.

As i said earlier the deal done with Dubai is as good as it gets. On one hand people are complaining about events outside europe and on the other saying they are not doing enough with the rest of the world.

Its my view that the Asian Tour and The US Tour will soon form an alliance that may well see a significant financial decline in the fortunes of The European Tour. This will result in smaller prize funds, unfunded events and more top players leaving to play stateside and in Asia where the big money is lurking.

Doubt the US and Asia will form an alliance. The PGA tour were strongly against Greg Norman's world tour back in the 90s. They wont give up their top dog status.

Smaller prize funds and top players heading stateside has already happened. Kaymer is the only top european who doesnt have PGA membership.

I can't think of any european tour player who has had a choice of tour chosen to go to Asia. The prize funds outside the big events in Asia which come in the european off season are not big.

One very disappointing fact is ..SKY who have 98% of the coverage...put zip back into the game

Sky plough a lot of money into the euro tour. Without the sky money purses would be smaller and their would be less events.

They also increase coverage. Pre sky golf coverage was non existent.

Bookmakers and golf will happen for sure and in the next three years, im certain of that. Regular sponsors are either declining to sponsor or looking to reduce the prize fund, meaning that the European Tour will increasingly be bankrolling a larger share in each event. That is a raod to nowhere and they will be forced to work with bookmakers.

I heard that Bwin had offered several squillion to the tour, the money to be used to replicate the shot tracker facility available on the PGA tour website. The plan being that spot betting on golf would become big business for them. Three ball betting in real time, who hits the longest tee shot on each hole, nearest the pin with the second shots etc etc and all supported by a foolproof system that would also add value to the European Tour website and professionalise the collection of scoring data at the point of entry. Currently the live scoring is done by volunteers and when you get outside of western Europe that means fat rich jids whos dads want them to get some exercise and more often than not they rag it in after 9 holes in favour of their playstation.

Make no mistake, the European Tour will have to grab this cash and no doubt they will disguise it for the benfit of Dubai, just as they have done with drinks and tobacco companies. The Dunhill Links is only sanctioned because Dunhill now have a clothing range etc, talk about double standards !

baldy fred could get rooney to do some work with him and disguise it as the
italian como over open

Bookmakers will only get involved in golf sponsorship if the cost is dramatically reduced. There's a reason why Snooker and Darts are dominated by bookmaking sponsorships, just as there's a reason why, barring a few notable exceptions, the European Tour doesn't have the depth of long term sponsorhip deals than the PGA Tour has. IT's bloody expensive.

Bookmakers will get involved if they can access the real time data that will allow them to create new betting markets. Bet365 have shown the rest how strong in play betting can be and they and some others would love to apply a similar logic to golf. Behind racing and football, golf is for most of the year on a par with tennis as far as bookmaker turnover os concerned, they do recognise the potential to increase this, but data currently collected by volunteer scorers leaves too much doubt from a data control point of view.

Speaking purely from afar, it appears to me that there has been an extreme level of comfort reached as a result of some 'false' indicators.

When I hear people speak about European golf, be it tour spokesmen or media in general, all we hear is about how the top 3 ranked players in the world are from that side of the pond, and of course, the Ryder Cup success. Nothing is ever really mentioned (that we hear down here anyway) about the issues in conducting tournaments from a financial viewpoint.

It may be possible that the Ryder Cup win was the worst thing that has happened to European Tour golf, it has overshadowed obvious issues with financing the tour it supposedly represented. The celebrations for months beyond indicated that some thought no more hard work was required, the pinnacle had been reached. To be blunt, it was a little embarrassing.

It is easy to be comfortable at the top end, but what lies beneath the surface is seemlingly not pretty.

Irish Open starts today played at a top quality venue and for the first time ever on the European Tour all four days are sold out.

Weather permitting this week could really give the tour a shot in the arm.

The European Tour is doomed if their website is anything to go by.

Emiliano Grillo -5 through 2 holes. Eagle, Albatross not a bad way to start.

Marychain1 - Exacty the reason that event standards need to be raised, you cant rely on volunteers to produce important live data, especially when betting is involved. The executies at the tour have no idea about betting or indeed that it has reached significant levels in golf.

Like your points Aussie, perhaps you should expand your comments, looks like you now more than your saying.

Not at all Golfdaft, like I said in the opening it is purely a view from afar

I think your right about the cosy position adopted by the European Tour

What is clear is the Tour are anti betting,caddies are banned from betting (god knows how they can manage that)but the fact remains the whole issue of bookies and betting doesn't sit well with them..As for the web site complete joke comes to mind.Ok, shot tracker has its issues but its light years infront of the European tour and like most of there out fit they look to do it on the cheap.No live at coverage and the scoring system is well, at best poor and just can't be trusted...

Thanks for this Hacker. What makes me laugh about The European Tour is that they have issues guidlines to players, caddies and agents re betting, I have seen the document. It doesnt state how it will be policed or what would happen if a player should breach the guidelines. Lets suppose Westwood backed another player and he lost to that player in tight finish, what would the tour do? Nothing because they have no balls to see this through.

Its blinkered in the extreme to continue to ignore the bookmakers, all the major firms bet on golf and increasing amounts but the tour has no idea how to maximise this interest and protect itself, they have been lucky so far but be sure that a story will break sopmetime soon that will force them into difficult decisions.

The tour wont oay for a system like shot tracker, bookmakers will pay for this on behalf of the tour because it increases betting opportunity, simple; make it happen.

They can celebrate having a European as world no1 as much as they want but Luke,and to a lesser extent Rory are practically PGA tour players.

Luke Donald is as much a supporter of the European tour as Bubba Watson

golfdaft     28 Jun 12 09:20 
Marychain1 - Exacty the reason that event standards need to be raised, you cant rely on volunteers to produce important live data,

Works fine for the PGA tour.

Events couldn't afford to employ people to walk with each group every day. Even then there would be mistakes as there are today.

Regular Fries     28 Jun 12 08:20 
Irish Open starts today played at a top quality venue and for the first time ever on the European Tour all four days are sold out.

It is great this event has proved so popular and more events like this would be welcomed but realistically where can you see this happen.

In 5 years time will the Irish open still be sold out each day?

Unfortunately dollars on the door come no where near close enough to support a european tour event at the current levels of prize money.

The likelihood is those competing on the euro tour will have to accept reducing prize funds going forwards

Events can afford professional to collect the data, bookmakers would pay for it becuase they can create betting markets from this data that punters will bet on, simple. sponsors will continue to look to golf but the players need to make more of an effort, most of them cant be bothered to turn up at the pro am prize giving even when their team has won, no respect for who pays them and too much money too easy.

Watching the American coverage last night there was hardly 20/30 around each green a vast contrast to the scenes earlier from portrush

All UK golf events are well attended, the country should have far more than it gets. US event was affected by freak weather so not the best week to draw a comparison.

Only 1 Category 11 player in this weeks field....can anyone tell me how Alistair Forsyth has got in as a National/Regional Order of Merit winner?

Forsyth qualified for The French Open by finishing second in the pre qualifying for the event.The pre qualifier was played the other week,the day after the St Omer Open finished,so that's how he got in.I think 75 guys were playing for 4 spots.When Pablo Larrazabal won here for his first victory on tour in 2008,he also came through the pre qualifier.

Thanks three_for_it

One of the problems in running a big tournament these days is the number of people involved on the ground and at administrative levels .

One club I know about were providing marshals for 2 holes in Portrush last week , after numerous e-mails to members asking for volunteers .  Another club with an excellent record in providing volunteers willy nilly to all sorts of golfing causes did not get a reply to their offer of helping with stewarding . Bad karma . My sister in law was marshalling / spotting last week , she plays a bit of golf , but admitted she was not confident about some procedures , and faced with large crowds ( well behaved as is the tradition In Ireland ) some of the marshalling was hit or miss .  But it will improve .

If all the volunteers were paid the cost would escalate . Saw a few groups out without board display markers .  Most of the score markers were female which is fair enough , but asking females to police a largely male audience as marshals would be strange . Collecting scores in play is dependent on the competence of volunteers as far as I know , and it can be a case of the weakest link .

A few of our friends travel over to continental Europe to help with Europen tour events ( as marshals etc ) , unpaid  . Not sure what the levels of local competence are in some of the countries where events are staged , OK these isles , but Europe overall ? 

Its OK when venues are well known and have been in use before , but staging a tournament on virgin ground must present problems to the organisers . And your "stand" for those operating displays / information / marketing operations can sometimes not meet expectations , so you wont be back .  All part of a learning process , not just a question of putting flags on greens .

Bob Diamond and his mates will not have helped either tour with their antics, could see Barclays moving away from golf next year under new management.

The next four weeks see one event on european soil and that only has a total prize fund of a million euros.

Unbelievable that at the height of the european summer there is only one event. I understand what people are saying about the cost of players travelling to events in Asia but the fact that european players have no events for three weeks is the true disgrace.

In other news Ernie Els after winning his 6th event of the year is now second on the race to dubai money list.

amazing that they cant get an event on in europe at the same time as the olympics

yet challenge tour is in essex this week

and the seniors are playing for £2million at turnberry

your now comming around to my way of thinking boys, greedy players and very greedy agents, no loyalty to the Tour and this is the result, the climate for golf sponsorship is the poorest in many years and more and more events wil fall by the wayside. The Tour are also too keen to spread the word, events across Europe, its my understanding that they have had to pick up the entire costs of more than one event in recemt times where foreign sponsors welched on their promises. Its a sorry scene as you have both pointed out, summer an no decent golf in the UK.

Announcements today have added further doubt to the long term future of the European Tour - Full story is available at www.open4golf.com

The european tour needs to be more realistic. I presume one of the reasons that there are no events for a 3 week stretch is the refusal to allow smaller purses.

They have no hope of competing with the PGA Tour so why try. The tour should see itself as a developmental tour which brings on the brightest talent and provides an opportunity for the journeyman to earn a decent living.

The next two weeks have no main tour events but challenge tour events are taking place. Why not simply co-sanction them?

Very worrying news regarding the Asian tour getting closer to the PGA tour rather tahn the Euro tour.If that happens,the Euro tour as we know it as finished......and i dont think that's a bad thing.At the moment,it's not really a Euro tour anyway with a lot of the tournaments actually being played outside of Europe.Sure,the Euro tour will miss the lucrative money that comes from the Asian tournaments but it's doing nothing to develop European golf,just trying to keep up with the Jones(PGA tour).

This is how a young pro from Europe career develops at the moment.Start off doing well in home country.Get a scholarship to play in US college golf.Come have a maximum 2 years on the Euro tour.If successful,move to Florida,play mostly PGA tour.If successful,stay there.If not,come back to Euro tour.

That's it.It doesn't matter how many tournaments are played in Asia or South Africa,that's how a young European pro's career will go.So lets have a proper Euro tour with at least 5-6 tournaments in the UK.We might not have the blue chip sponsors of the PGA tour but it'll be a hotbed of European developing talent and that,however unsavoury,is only ever what the Euro tour is ever going to be.

Do you think George O'Grady,and his foursome partners at the Euro headquarters at Wentworth, think the same and realise rather than chasing the Asian money,lets make the European tour the best we can,pump more money into junior golf and maybe cut costs in other ways?

LOL yeah course they do.........

My post is pretty much a reflection on what MW says in the post above mine.The European tour are petrified of being seen as small time,completely ignoring the ecomomics smacking them in the face.

Is it going to make Westwood play any better?

Seriously don't think so , all it really means to Westwood is the travelling time cut down.

Westwood and Poulter (Nap) will never win a major unless the other player does a Scott or Furyk and hand him it on a plate as long as I have a hole in my backside.

Well said Clarkey. Lets do a Kerry Packer

Thanks for the link Golfdaft

I notice that the PGA are only inviting 10 Asian Tour players to take part!

Perhaps the European Tour could follow suit on similar 'co-sanctioned' events?

The PGA Tour have more to bargain with than the European Tour and the TV audience is key too, but your on the right track for sure.