Forums

General Betting

There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
cicero
03 Aug 18 20:25
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Feb 08
| Topic/replies: 96 | Blogger: cicero's blog
like in animal farm the revolution is over the pigs wear clothes and carry whips
the once great p2p betting site is now just a bookmaker

the great cull in markets...betfair was the best not just because of liquidity in the markets but because of the
breadth of markets...now gone

the monopolistic advantages that bf has had that led to this complacency will surely be there downfall...the time has come for another
p2p site to come to the fore...one that will listen to the people

i asked for numerous markets to be added over the last year, all denied.

swimming european championships hosted in glasgow and live on bbc... requested and denied
the fact that there is no front facing member of the market making team leaves me frustrated
making my case to people with little knowledge of either sports or betting is frustrating too

specials markets virtually non existent...motor racing about half the markets gone
any request i have made for a market has been denied..

i have been a betfair user since the beginning now its time to try the others.
Anyone fancy starting up a wikibet?? donations rather than commission and a user interface to set up own market
get it checked by a "monitor" and go live????

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 109
By:
JML
When: 03 Aug 18 20:43
swimming european championships hosted in glasgow and live on bbc    not sure if you're being serious.


I've just placed a bet on first goalscorer market Reading v Derby.


Proper market on the most popular sport and only £7K matched.

IMO opinion Betfair have to many markets--especially in football.

Well over 20 in this match with less than £1000 matched.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Aug 18 21:34
Yes too many markets on some football matches, alot of markets duplicated, been saying this for years. I think these are easy to set up and settle though so bf aren't concerned.

I've missed quite a few markets which have been removed, eg on test cricket. But for me the worst change has been in handicaps and totals to have every single line across all sports. eg, every 3 set tennis match has 110 lines for total games - complete overkill and unless you operate a bot theres no point putting up offers. But again its probably easier for bf because every match is the same now.
By:
cicero
When: 03 Aug 18 22:35
people like a variety of sports...not everyone likes football and I could guarantee

that anyone of those swimming finals markets would have matched in the thousands...
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Aug 18 23:29
I agree but I don't think bf are too concerned about how much would be traded on swimming markets, its the time and effort of setting up the markets and managing them why they won't, its not a sport bf would know a lot about. Whereas a football match is insert 2 team names and press a few buttons. I was disappointed not to be able to bet on the hockey world cup, I think thats a bit more suprising, its easier to set up team markets with only 2 participants.
There are quite a few crypo based decentralized exchanges/prediction sites starting up (where you can make your own markets) but from what I've seen I'm not sure they'll ever be viable as an alternative to current betting sites.
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 00:28
I too wanted to trade on the hockey world cup and asked them to add market but inevitably, denied. If they

could set up these markets without having to manage them too energetically, the old caveat emptor "better beware"

type market (auto suspend at scheduled time would do). A subsection of betfair "wild west style" where they take limited

responsibility or maybe they could just make the effort an honour their origin...
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 01:21
I wouldn't guarantee those swimming markets would match in their thousands.  £5000 matched on Adam Peaty at 1.02 doesn't really count.  The exchange as it was has been slowly dying for a few years.  The failure to add any of the markets you requested is just a sign that Betfair themselves have now given up on the vested interest partnership/model
By:
JML
When: 04 Aug 18 01:26
The fact that not a single bookmaker is offering odds speaks volumes.

I've forgotten how much was matched for the Olympic finals,the Adam Peaty final was,by far, the most popular
but that would have a lot more to do with Peaty himself,and how short his odds was, than the sport of swimming.

The Olympics is so far ahead of the European championships that it's impossible to guarantee anything in terms of turnover.

As for the motor racing markets--there is only one reason Betfair pulled the plug on those markets.

A number of the less popular Anti-Post horse racing markets have also been dropped.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 01:34
A few bookies have been offering odds JML, but not anywhere near across the board.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 01:51
I asked for markets for the 2015 World Swimming Championships (they had offered them for the previous few) and my initial request was rejected, so I contacted the Australian site, as imo most of the interest comes from there and got them a day late I think.  Obviously with the markets coming a day late that probably reduced overall turnover by somewhere near half imo, and it did pick up as the event wore on, but it was still shoite compared to previous years and I just ended up thinking what's the point.  No idea if they offered them for the 2017 version as I was away on holiday.  Because I am knowledgeable on the sport and always watch the championships, I would've probably got involved had there been markets and a decent lvel of interest, but I didn't expect either.  Had there been markets I think they would have struggled to get going.
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 01:55
bf buddie wasn't offering odds but other big firms were....As regards to £5000 matched on Adam Peaty at 1.02 doesn't really count.

Try telling the poor guy(S) who lost £5000 the night peaty drowned.

Its stories like that which keep the p2p exchange alive.....
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 02:16
In 2015 bf would accommodate market requests (especially the knowledgeable Australian crew). now they don't, often quoting "liquidity".
That is the issue.

Btw.. Haven't heard a "yeaah I agree m8" in along time...poss due to lifestyle change for me

(stopped early morning poker and drunken log ins)

exception tonight...now drunk
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 02:31
Some events....last years French elections and the McGregor Mayweather farce fight generate huge betting interest. I don't really know why, but I think it's someat to do with suggestive social media.

Where the exchange has definitely failed miserably is not offering markets on Love Island.  Haven't watched any of it, but I know there is betting on it, it's live and involves voting, and it's clearly captured the brain dead's imagination like Le Pen, Melenchon and McGregor.
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 02:37
Also (ranting now)

If betfair and everyone keep thinking liquidity is the only issue, then we all will become uniform and robotic. if so,
we may as well all head down the pub and play the fruities..
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 02:41
I would love to lay their bets
By:
cicero
When: 04 Aug 18 02:49
especially that Mcgregor looks like he would lose a few bob
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 02:50
This carte blanche message "don't ever ask for markets again, as we have made our mind up and won't consider anything" is an arrogant recipe for failure.  Love Island could easily hit turnover of seven figures if the show persists in it's popularity.  Not only that, it draws new customers and keeps some existing customers active, when otherwise they might not be.  I'm sure had the Betfair helpdesk not been so aloof, and offputting, that market would have been requested, offered and ended up thriving.
By:
JML
When: 04 Aug 18 11:53
Didn't watch the programe but I'm also surprised that they didn't have a market for love island.

Was it possible for someone to know any results before everyone else?


Many markets have been removed from the golf--of those that remain you'd expect the 72 hole match bets to be popular

Biggish tournament this week,all the best players in action but the amounts matched are  44,1327,1230,87,1060 and 0.
By:
Templeton Peck
When: 04 Aug 18 13:18
Good to see a thread here on The Great Cull.  I've been speaking to them about this for the last few months with little to no success.  It's a "market rationalisation" project but the analysis used to determine which markets to cull appears to be limited.  They're going to be losing out on tens of thousands in PC from me alone so I've no idea why they think this is a profitable move. 

It makes sense to remove markets that never see a penny matched but they're getting rid of stuff that can see thousands matched event after event.
By:
JML
When: 04 Aug 18 14:13
It's profitable because they can employ less staff and there is every chance the people losing the money on these markets
will use the sportsbook or just place a bet on a different market.


Any bet placed on a more popular market will be at much more favourable terms and will result in them losing at a slower rate
and therefore paying more commission for every £ lost.
By:
Templeton Peck
When: 04 Aug 18 14:41
These are valid points but at what point does it cost them more than it saves them plus what they make in commission/bets elsewhere?

If I want to place a bet on an F1 submarket then I no longer can on the exchange, I can't on the Sportsbook as I'm limited to pennies there - as I'm sure many exchange users are - and I'm not all of a sudden going to bet on a random high liquidity market instead just because I can't back what I want.

The exchange appears to be nothing to them now other than a low-risk cash cow.  They've no intention of growing or improving it, just reduce its size and rely on the steady income from the largest markets whilst cutting costs.  If we're only left with these markets then all that will happen is more will move to Purple et al as liquidity is ok there for such markets (and will improve).
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 04 Aug 18 16:07
If you ask the BF Sportsbook for a bet on a League One match with 2 yellow cards, 15 corner kicks, exactly 3 goals and 3 minutes of added time I'm sure they will happily accomodate you.
By:
pmbets
When: 04 Aug 18 21:41
All in all Betfair now is just a bookmaker.The exchange is on it's last legs and the only hope is these new starter exchanges will increase liquidity and everyone will move
over there and never return to betfair.I mean hand on heart how many of you can really recommend Betfair to a friend?I would say very few.
By:
Latalomne
When: 05 Aug 18 10:33

Aug 3, 2018 -- 3:34PM, bingo bongo wrote:


Yes too many markets on some football matches, alot of markets duplicated, been saying this for years. I think these are easy to set up and settle though so bf aren't concerned. I've missed quite a few markets which have been removed, eg on test cricket. But for me the worst change has been in handicaps and totals to have every single line across all sports. eg, every 3 set tennis match has 110 lines for total games - complete overkill and unless you operate a bot theres no point putting up offers. But again its probably easier for bf because every match is the same now.


The handicap / supremacy lines thing is the bit that annoys me most, too.  No matter how they try to dress it up, the only reason they have done this is so that they can run at 110% on each pair of lines.  It has no place on an Exchange where people are looking to trade.  In fact, it has virtually killed any prospect of being able to trade since only the current even money (well, 1.9/1.9) line is displayed on the website and only people running an API product are even going to be seeing the other lines....

I have had this argument with them and have begged that there should be at least one 'static' pre-ko handicap line, too, but they're just not interested. 

IMHO, the whole thing is geared towards PPBF getting a bigger piece of the pie, and in that I include the fact that we've lost a lot of markets on here.

By:
Templeton Peck
When: 05 Aug 18 11:22
I've been told they've finally admitted they got the new handicap system completely wrong.  I've also told them they should have one (or a couple more in the big matches) static line in the old format in addition to this but that always seems to fall on deaf ears. 

I've been told they will be changing it to a format similar to how the football handicaps looks.  This still has plenty of issues but they think they know best (many of us have spent 10+ years living on the site so I beg to differ, especially since the merger when they lost a lot of long-term employees).

I think The Great Cull of markets is definitely to help shift some of the mug punters to PPBF. I think the manpower argument is overdone considering they already load and settle these markets elsewhere in the business.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 05 Aug 18 12:30
I think you are reaching the wrong conclusions.  My conclusion is they want the exchange to flourish, but are ignorant and are just throwing blind darts.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 05 Aug 18 12:46
The logic that they will deliberately make one of their products weaker in the hope they will switch to another of their products, when they have lots of competition is just ridiclulous.  They should be thinking about why they have a competitive advantage.  That should always be the number one priority.
By:
Latalomne
When: 05 Aug 18 13:42
If they were bothered about the competition, they'd have never have started a sportsbook to begin with.  Part of the reason they did was that they could see that too much "mug money" was leaving the ecosystem via the sharks and they wanted more of it for themselves, even after the PC was brought in (even at the most extreme end of the scale, there's still 40% less a bit of comms leakage).

They told me what they told TP above 3 months ago re a new format, yet here we are with nothing having changed, save for a few more markets having disappeared. 

Don't get me wrong, the side markets were on the wane anyway, but the new lines have exacerbated their demise greatly.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 05 Aug 18 15:27
"If they were bothered about the competition, they'd have never have started a sportsbook to begin with."

I don't agree with that at all.  Although obviously there's a crossover, there's a market for both and there's no reason to limit yourself to the smaller market, and while some business may go west to the Sportsbook, conversely some will go East.  Yes there was a time when they proioritised the sportsbook, but to me it's been obvious for a while they are pushing both.  When I talk about competition I'm not talking just about Smarkets Matchbook and ****, but clearly  they are more like for like competion for the exchange.  All bookies are competition. 

Where I disagree (with Betfair it seems) is that part of what sets the Betfair exchange above it's rivals is that it has a feasible market for the non major sports.  Eurovision for example is massive on here and hopeless anywhere else.  It's markets like that and far less busy ones which distinguish Betfair from it's rivals.  That's one reason why you base yourself here.  Because there's more choice and more opportunity.  It's a bit like banking, it's simpler to stay in one place.  Take away choice and you lose some of the reasons people base themselves here.  I don't get their rationalisations anyway.  The biggest issue I've always had is the endless list of football markets, many with no turnover at all, that annoys you when you are trying to find the market you still want.  That's not about choice as you've got loads of markets anyway even if some did go, but all those markets are still there.  I also think that where practical, if a customer requests a market on the exchange, you should look to provide it.  It's not about the business generated from that market, it's about the goodwill it generates.
By:
cicero
When: 06 Aug 18 07:48
well done bf on putting hockey final up.. you listened
post timing here.... could have put up a winning margin market
dutch 0-5          exactly 6         over 6       and of course any other

i would have priced it
8.2 0-5

1.01 exactly 6

42 over 6

2.2 any other

afraid to put the 'any other' price higher because you might settle it 'in what ever way it suits'

bottom line bf... if everyone who makes money from your site leaves...you lose
By:
JML
When: 06 Aug 18 08:34
What we're really intrested in is HOW MUCH WAS MATCHED?

8.2,1.01 and 42 (or is it 8.2,1.01,42 And 2.2?????) We can now see why you're so keen on having these very quiet markets.


I think you'll find that the winners ain't going anywhere.
By:
Templeton Peck
When: 06 Aug 18 10:05
If a winner's markets are no longer offered then they won't be hanging around.  I'm probably going to lose out on 30% of what I make because of this policy.  I'm not going to move to other markets as I don't want to spend time finding an edge only for Betfair to then remove that market as well.  Markets with five figures matched and a
By:
JML
When: 06 Aug 18 11:00
We are talking about markets with next to no interest and their removal will only affect a very few.
It's the lack of competition that make them profitable.

Todays Hull v Villa----2 easy to price accurately markets

Match Odds and Over/Under 2.5 Goals---- 107.2%
Match Odds and Both teams to Score------107.1%

You're not going to switch off your bot and say goodbye to the other 70%.

What were you going to say about markets with five figures matched?
By:
Templeton Peck
When: 06 Aug 18 11:57
No idea why the rest of my sentence was cut off.

Markets with five figures matched and at acceptable prices are being culled, not just markets seeing pennies. 

I have never used a bot.  If I'm winning just 70% of what I was and all other markets are just going to become even more competitive or culled over time, why would I bother spending my life doing this?  It's not as if I'm unable to earn a living elsewhere.

The two markets you mention look fine to me, especially 8 hours before kick off.  AV/Yes is 5.8, best price elsewhere is 5.5 and that's only with WH. Generally 5.0.
By:
JML
When: 06 Aug 18 13:35
I'm surprised no one hasn't used a bot to make the "Match Odds and Over/Under 2.5 Goals" more competitive
because the prices are easily calculated from the "correct score" market.

The sub £2 bot is all over these markets which is a sign of the poor value on offer.

Perhaps any market that regularly attracts the sub £2 bot should be culled.

Any more details about these five figure markets--what was the average amount matched?


I've seen the "Method of Victory" market with hundreds of thousands matched  but in
most cases they attract little interest,but still more than many of the other markets on offer.
By:
cicero
When: 06 Aug 18 14:24
JML, why are you so interested in amount matched??? I presume your a big player?

save a thought for the little guys...one mans rubbish is another mans treasure.

also I was clearly being jovial on my hockey pricing!
I do prefer markets where the odds aren't so easy to assess, where skill and judgement are required.

here's one...how much has JML got in his account today?

under 1000    6/1
1000 to 10000   3/1
10001 to 100000  1/1
over 100000  4/1
By:
JML
When: 06 Aug 18 15:25
The thread is about the great cull.

I'd have thought that the most important thing in deciding what to cull is the amount matched.

That's why I wanted to know how much was matched--but to be fair most people wouldn't even think of looking for a
Hockey market.
By:
cicero
When: 06 Aug 18 16:11
There was 10000 matched, bf only put it up because of the interest in Ireland in the final (first time in history an Irish team
reached a world cup final of a field sport). They lost 6 nil against the 6 time world champions Holland. The Dutch were 1.2 at the beginning
looks big now!
What i would like to see happen....Its fine for bf to cull markets with historically little matched but if they could be more reasonable in
adding requested markets such as those that terrestrial tv deems view worthy.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 06 Aug 18 16:25
Match Odds and Over/Under 2.5 Goals---- 107.2%
Match Odds and Both teams to Score------107.1%


That is my idea of utterly pointless markets.  Mug punter only territory
By:
Templeton Peck
When: 06 Aug 18 18:06

Aug 6, 2018 -- 7:35AM, JML wrote:


I'm surprised no one hasn't used a bot to make the "Match Odds and Over/Under 2.5 Goals" more competitive because the prices are easily calculated from the "correct score" market.The sub £2 bot is all over these markets which is a sign of the poor value on offer.Perhaps any market that regularly attracts the sub £2 bot should be culled.Any more details about these five figure markets--what was the average amount matched?I've seen the "Method of Victory" market with hundreds of thousands matched  but in most cases they attract little interest,but still more than many of the other markets on offer.


That market is botted up.  Put in the wrong odds, probably something linked to Correct Score, and it will immediately snap it up.

As for five figure markets, the ante-post horse racing markets are an example.  If they didn't reach £15k matched then they will no longer be offered.

I don't understand why markets that attract the sub £2 bot should be culled?  As I've said, the football markets you mention are now 105% with four figures matched on both with two hours before kick off.

People on this thread seem to agree with Betfair by saying you can't beat a 105% market.  That's b0llocks.

Page 1 of 3  •  Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
‹ back to topics
www.betfair.com