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08 Sep 16 22:53
Date Joined: 12 May 01
| Topic/replies: 6,042 | Blogger: bongo's blog
Excellent analysis from nanny state basher Chris Snowdon.


The report also notes the UK does not have high rates of problem gambling compared to other countries.
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Report DStyle September 9, 2016 12:46 AM BST
The surety with which Snowdon puts forward his claims in the absence of thorough analysis and robust evidence make this piece anything but excellent. It's hugely flawed and one might to be led to suspect an agenda.

FOBTs have gone from making NO money a year to 1.6 billion year in 13 years.

The onward downward trend in the number of licensed betting offices ceased around 2000. You would have expected this to continue and accelerate with internet gambling doing for sports betting what the internet did for video rental shops yet the number of betting shops has remained stable IN SPITE of this and indeed Snowdon admits that their revenue from FOBTs accounts for more than half the income from betting shops.

The evidence that betting shops are more concentrated in poorer neighbourhoods is not anecdotal. it is established.

Wide confidence intervals in the estimates of problem gamblers do not reflect the scarcity of problem gamblers. This sentence alone is a massive red flag. They suggest either a poor identification of the problem, reporting of the problem, and/or poor sampling methods. Whilst gambling surveys may suggest a stable problem gambling rate, charities dealing with gambling addiction have reported a rise over the last 10 years. There are many factors which could explain this. A single survey where participants self-report is no meta-analysis, and is likely to contain inherent sampling and selection errors when it comes to reporting problem gambling.

Studies from Australia show conclusively that addiction rates are highest amongst those regularly playing pokies.
Report DIE LINKE September 9, 2016 4:45 PM BST
group which takes money from bookies in FOBTs are great shocker?
Report fife September 17, 2016 11:04 AM BST
bongo has lost the argument on the horseracing forum so starts another post on here pathetic.
Report fife September 17, 2016 11:10 AM BST
Actually why I disagree with bongo I apologise to him as he commented on this subject on chit chat not the horseracing forum and after this thread was started.Blush
Report xmoneyx September 18, 2016 11:57 AM BST
found a word for a problem gambler


is an urge to gamble continuously despite harmful negative consequences or a desire to stop.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 19, 2016 11:39 AM BST
DStyle - there are now fewer shops today than there were in 2003. Has been a steady decline for a number of years now. Number of shops has dropped by nearly 200 in the last 12 months according to the latest GC stats.

As for evidence they are concentrated in poor areas, this is similarly misguided. Concentration is on areas of footfall, hence the move to high streets from housing estates and pub car parks. Betting shops were a huge beneficiary of the financial crisis in 2009 when the high street went t!ts up, rents dropped massively and they could suddenly afford much better locations. I think there may be an anecdotal link as high streets and town centres will generally flag as more deprived than leafy suburbs but to say bookies are targeting the deprived is patently false.

As for the testing I believe it's based on the standard DSM IV which are used to determine pretty much all psychological disorders. I think saying this is likely to contain errors is as likely to be as wide of the mark as those claiming FOBTs are brilliant and harmless.
Report DStyle September 20, 2016 5:53 AM BST

1. Yes there are fewer shops. But that wasn't my point. My point was that there has been a strong downward decline in the nummber of the betting shops since the 70s which ceased in the early 00s. The decline may still be there but the rate of decline has significantly slowed. To repeat my point, with the advent of internet gambling, you would have expected the rate to accelerate, and this is fully supported by the volume of bets struck online versus in shops. The betting volume data fully supports the idea that FOBTs are shoring up shops.

2. Perhaps this is not misguided. Research which hasn't been paid for by bookies supports this.(

3. I'm not talking about diagnostic methods of identifying behaviour. I'm talking about inherent failures in the sampling methods in surveys used to identify problem behaviour. People don't report this stuff in surveys accurately and the data in the report is based on the Health Survey for England questionaires which has far too small a sampling size to accurately identify changes in low prevalence problems like problem gambling.

In particular with point 3, reports from charities claim that there's been an increase, but again this is sketchy data too. Bold claims in this area, for whichever side, should be met with great suspicion.
Report dixie September 20, 2016 1:51 PM BST
Gambling Commission statistics give a figure of 34,552 for 2014/15:
Fixed odds betting terminals, Great Britain
2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15
Number of B2
terminals 31,439 33,663 32,832 33,294 33,299 34,492 34,552
Annual percentage
increase - 7.1% -2.5% 1.4% 0.0% 3.6% 0.2%
Gross Gambling
Yield (£million) 1,050.71 1,166.50 1,302.35 1,455.95 1,542.84 1,564.69 1,664.02
Annual percentage
increase - 11.0% 11.6% 11.8% 6.0% 1.4% 6.

The number of machines and the gross gambling yield, are both rising.  The figures are from the Gambling Commission.
Report anxious September 21, 2016 11:39 AM BST
I think most bookies take more on these dreadful machines than they do on everything else combined in a monthly sum, also its not very pleasant watching somebody who has just lost try to head-butt and give the machine a good kicking.
Report DIE LINKE September 21, 2016 2:39 PM BST
A "nanny state basher" who supports machines which lead to lost jobs, split up families, suicide, etc.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 21, 2016 6:55 PM BST
DStyle -  I think your last sentence sums it up nicely, particularly in relation to the Campaign piece in your link. I'd take any study they cite with a massive pinch of salt as there is ample evidence of why their founder is so against the bookies.

Again, I'd say the locations are based on footfall and these areas happen to be town centres, major thoroughfares etc which also happen to be more deprived.

One angle I always wonder about is the change in demographic, particularly foreign punters. The Far East is traditionally a hub of gambling on numbers and games of chance while roulette is such a simple game to understand. Contrast that against horses and dogs with the myriad form, rule 4s and other jargon to wade through and it's no surprise youngsters and those for whom English isn't their first language choose the machine option.

Again the question would then be "are the bookies exploiting these people or are they simply providing a service?" which would obviously get wildly different answers depending on if you asked the Campaign or the ABB.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 28, 2016 10:10 AM BST
"are the bookies exploiting these people or are they simply providing a service?"

They are providing a service which exploits them.  They are not mutually exclusive. Wink


As an aside you are not gong to be in business very long if you are whiter than white.
Report Gin November 4, 2016 10:57 AM GMT
Says it all really........

Mark Hollier, prosecuting, played CCTV footage showing bookies staff Eren KInyok and new employee Angela Gwyther handing over bank notes to the robbers at 3.30pm.

Mr Holier said Woods stayed by the door and Humby, who was pointing the pistol, yelled: "Give me the money, I want all of it!"

[b]Cash was handed over as one man continued to gamble at a slot machine.
Report Gin November 4, 2016 10:58 AM GMT
Cash was handed over as one man continued to gamble at a slot machine.
Report DIE LINKE November 5, 2016 9:14 AM GMT
The robbers got away with £350 as the FOBT addict did £500 on the roulette.
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