General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
ie No in running bet delay. Who would this be a subject for? Theoretical question.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 50
|
By:
Not the Gambling Commission because they are about as useful as an England penalty taker at the World Cup.
|
|
By:
it would be blatant fraud, so it doesn't happen.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
beyond belief what some people are capable of talking themselves into over time
|
|
By:
Westender, whilst I appreciate your efforts to put pressure on management regarding the future of BF you have got this seriously wrong. No one has access to markets without time delays. It is the same for all. Why would BF jeapordise a business making hundreds of millions of pounds to steal a few extra pounds. When you see prices move often it will be because bets are cancelled.
|
|
By:
Don't be so naive marlas.
|
|
By:
They're not jeopardising anything if no-one's looking. I guarantee BF staff are contract bound to not discuss anything if they leave.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
What offence is being committed?
|
|
By:
Does the cross-matcher have the delay?
|
|
By:
frog has a tin opener in one hand and a can of worms in the other.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
The Betfair cross-matcher has to operate without a delay, or it wouldn't be able to cross-match.
Does it earn PaddyPower pennies every single fraction of a second in which it operates? It surely must do. There aren't enough decimal places in the odds to cross-match precisely. Unless of course PaddyPower are crediting the punters with those pennies by rounding the odds in the punters' favour. I wonder which way I would go, if I ran the firm and were offered the option. |
|
By:
More than a decade ago no one would have believed that betfair would be active in there own markets yet we all know that this now happens whether it is cross matching or other ways so what is to stop betfair being active and trading for profit in there markets and also being ahead of the market ie 1st in the queue after unsuspension of in running football markets or other markets,would they be doing anything wrong if this was the case ? i do not know and if they were doing this and they were in the wrong who would police this ? The gambling commission ? whom appear to be pretty useless in many peoples view.
My view is just like the New Jersey gambling commission that betfair should not operate in there own markets for transparency purposes and they stipulated that when granting them a license. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
Yes.
I received such a one-off payment once, but not for a very long time. And probably place more bets on Aus markets these days thanks to the Big Bash. Anyway, even if that is just an innocent oversight, we seem to have established that Paddy Power are trading in the Betfair in-play markets via a cross-matching bot that uses an algorithm which cannot lose because it is not subject to any delay. And that when it plays on any event taking place outside Aus/NZ, Paddy Power pockets the winnings. |
|
By:
The crossmatching bots makes the markets more fair for all punters (except those trying to con people out of terrible prices).
|
|
By:
I agree. The cross-matching bots have been a boon for me as a punter.
But ... they would be even more of a boon if their operator weren't pocketing pennies from them every fraction of a second every single day. |
|
By:
Since xmxm was introduced bf put up terrible trap bets on several markets, this is not fairer for punters. And unless bf have changed how the original cross matching works it gets free positions on markets with more than 2 runners.
|
|
By:
Except it's not BF putting up the trap bet. It's another trader on a different market.
|
|
By:
No, to illustrate I can back a team to win today on match odds at 9.8. Thanks to cross matching I can back the same team -1 at the same odds.
|
|
By:
Then that's an error/oversight on Betfair's xmxm part, not them entering their own odds.
|
|
By:
Though not playing those markets myself, I suppose it depends who the discrepancy benefits - you or Betfair.
|
|
By:
Come on its not an oversight its by design! I've just tested the way bf gets free runners from the original xm and its still the same after all these years, on any market with more than 2 runners bf are potentially raking it in.
|
|
By:
They're still not betting in the market. It's the error rate that was addressed above.
In Aus, BF give it back. In UK or anywhere else for that matter, BF keep the error. Nice earner for them correct. The difference between OZ/main wallet needs rectifying. |
|
By:
Well we're talking definitions, bf would say I'm matching virtual prices. Its not an error when bf get free runners, its deliberate and it wouldn't be hard to actually provide best execution. As it is bf could potentially be winning money on particular outcomes, so they are in some way in the market.
|
|
By:
They're not in their own markets though. If they were beating the time delay, as was initially referred to in the OP, then they could theoretically be making a killing by fraudulent means. As it is, the cross-matching (or cross market cross-matching) is set up to provide a fair market especially where liquidity provides it. It does have its falldowns but no less than a system without crossmatching would have. However, the tiny differences in the real prices and the virtual prices that the crossmatching algorithm creates gives Betfair tiny profits. It's nigh on impossible to work out what those tiny profits do add up to, especially because you cannot get any real figure on how much is crossmatched, but it could add up to a very tidy sum every day for Betfair.
I really don't understand the conspiracy regarding crossmatching at all, it creates a much fairer market than without crossmatching when trap bets are/were easier to match. The scandal for me is that Betfair keep such a tidy sum (especially when Australian regulations require them to be distributed for Oz markets). |
|
By:
I'm not so bothered about the profits when the odds don't reverse quite perfectly. Its about them keeping all the money when they get free runners either from the original xm or the newer xmxm, for me these are a version of trap bets.
|
|
By:
Shouldn't they have to explain to someone what exactly it is they are doing? For example the 4 places market on racing went in running. What is guiding these prices? They have nothing to work off?
|
|
By:
XM is just a way of putting PEOPLE's prices up in different ways. It's not BF punting FFS.
The refund that they give in the Oz markets is the tiny bit of commission that they earn twice through the XM. As far as the person betting against the XM bot is concerned, the commission is exactly as if they had placed the bet against a person. The reason they refund in Oz is that the Tasmanian authorities spotted that they could be charging commission twice on the same wager, so they forced them to come clean and distribute this double commission to the customers when it arose. |
|
By:
Just because you are not prepared to put the effort into understanding something does
not make it an evil conspiracy. I don't work for BF and I don't work for PP and and I definitely don't think they are improving, but there's nothing to be achieved by attacking them on the wrong front when there are the following problems to address: - Premium Charge - No liability offset on ante-post handicap horse races - NRNB in golf majors - Huge losses in liquidity in horse racing and other markets - Sportsbook and the poxy casino |
|
By:
Thanks for the explanation re: the refund, etc, though still don't understand why the same doesn't apply across all markets.
Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with you, bashing BF over the crossmatching bot, which for me is a credit to the Betfair system, is out of line. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
The cross matcher was an excellent idea but where it badly falls down is when 1.01 is cross matched with 55. That is an enormous discrepancy in odds and you are throwing half your stake away if you back the cross matched bet of 1.01 instead of laying at 55.
|
|
By:
If I make a mistake entering a bet I used to have a sporting chance of cancelling it before someone saw it and took it due to the delay. This was particularly the case for the lower liquidty markets that have declined massively in volume since X-matching appeared. Betfair's instant access to the market due to the X-matching systems have removed this cancellation chance.
|
|
By:
Bets can be matched on the exchange where the backer and layer can both lose
Erm. No they can't. |
|
By:
Erm yes they can. As I've already explained if you read the thread.
xmxm - Player lays team A. Betfair xm this with a back of team A minus 1,2 or 3 goals. Team a wins by 1 goal. Both bets lose. xm - Player puts a back offer on in 3 way market. This is displayed as lays on the other 2 options. If someone backs one of these xm prices and there are no back offers on the third option then bf keep the proceeds if this wins. Its why people put up small amounts at 1000/1, hoping to get matched by the xm. |
|
By:
It's not cross-punting. It's cross-matching. They only put up a virtual bet when it is possible as
a result of another bet (or 2 bets in a 3-way market). If the virtual bet is taken it is MATCHED against the actual bets on the other side of the market. |