General Betting
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1. International bookmakers who offer decent odds, e.g. SBOBET, are driven from the market giving punters worse value.
2. UK players will now all be protected by the UK Gambling Commission. Is this organisation fit for purpose? e.g. Betbutler. Ultimately will UK customers end up better or worse off as a result? |
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We know that UK players are not protected by the UK Gambling Commission. Their goals are as follows;
Through effective regulation and public engagement we permit gambling and ensure: • it is crime free • it is fair and open • children and vulnerable people are protected They fail horrendously on every single level. How can you permit FOBTs and for one moment think it will be crime free? How can you have bookmakers restricting accounts as they have been and think it is open and fair? How can it be fair that I could place two bets on an account and have it closed, yet on another you could lose £250k. How can it be fair that you do not have a realistic chance to win what you could lose? How can you honestly go into a selection of bookmakers and tell me that the vulnerable are being protected. How on earth are online casinos allowed to advertise on tv. The industry is in a complete mess with so much of it stemming from pathetic direction from the UK Gambling Commission. |
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With regard to the new consumption tax UK players options will definitely become more limited. However, people are taking huge risks with some of these other bookmakers anyway so in theory it should be safer. Having said that we have seen plenty of bookmakers pass by the wayside over the years. I am not sure this will prevent that.
The tax is simply a money grab and unfortunately the incentives are wrong for the players involved. The Govt obviously wants to generate greater tax receipts from Gambling. It is in their interests for the gambling companies to be making bigger profits. Therefore the bookmakers are going to be desperate to ensure profits are increasing all the time. That means any profitable punter will be marginalised and the less informed preyed upon to an even greater extent. I fail to see how the UK punter will be getting a better deal out of it. |
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I'm guessing that the PoC tax means the bookies will have to take their bets from UK customers through a UK-based and UK-licensed subsidiary, rather than through a Malta or Gibraltar or Channel Islands one? That means they won't be able to evade paying levy on their on-line Racing bets, I hope, which will funnel some money in Racing.
I know Betfair have made a point of voluntarily paying an amount equal to what their Levy contribution would have been during the years they've been offshore, but all the other bookies have just trousered money that should be going into Racing. |
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has tax for the firms gone up?
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From later this year, 15% levy on the profits attributable to bets taken from UK punters.
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For Betfair will it simply be as it was pre Feb 2011 (or whenever it was) that it went to foreign climes to avoid paying the tax?
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what is it now longbridge?
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Its 15% of Gross Profits now for UK based firms on all bets. It will be 15% for all bets placed by people living in the UK. To take bets from people living in the UK you will need a UK license.
Sounds fine in theory as long as the Gambling Commission is held accountable and does its job. In theory if a 'collective' peer to peer exchange with zero commission was started there would be no tax to pay as the tax is on companies not punters. |
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sounds like there might be some UK punters looking for bowlers from OS
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This is interesting question. In general terms low tax environments are good for consumers and free trade and value pricing, so punters have had it reasonably good betting with compettitive offshore bookmakers.
Obviously the main intent of the law change is to increase tax revenues for the UK Exchequer. Higher taxes are not necessarily bad if they go to fund excellent public services which are used by the same people who enjoy a punt. However this is not the nature of taxation in the UK at present. Insufficent tax revenues is not the HMG's main problem in fiscal terms , it is excessive spending. The UK government is still spending more than it has ever taken in tax receipts in its best ever year for a record 10th year in a row. Selective public spending on things that are excellent and pruning what is bad value is noticeably absent from the current governments spending, as it was the one before. As a result the increased tax revenue will gloss over the fundamental problem of govt overspending, and it will be bad for punters as competitive bookies clear off. It will also be bad for betfair as the Gambling Commission will start to look more closely at betfair closetly permitting courtsiders to operate here, in blatant contravention of betfair's own rules about betting in good faith, and contrary to the principles of fairness and openness as mentioned by Tom in the 3P. |
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The Gambling Commission already gave courtsiders the green light after the last investigation before Betfair went offshore. Betfair produced analysis on it showing it was 'fair' but unfortunately did not provide the raw data for this to be independently analysed.
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/09%20Consultation%20response%20from%20Betfair.pdf |
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@cdog - pretty much so
@G1_Jockey - zero |
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ok thanks.
thats the key bit then. no real change and these sh1ster companies will just be handing over clients to the bigger firms. still the punter needs an arm in the gambling commision. its simply not right that they can advertise prices and that everyone who legally can bet cant actually all have that price.....trades description ffs |
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Some rumours Pinnacle will be closing all UK accounts by the end of the month. How is anyone going to get a bet on with no Pinnacle, no Sbobet and no 12bet. Game over for many gamblers.
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I have a place in gibraltar, would I be able to get a bet on at pinnacle if I use my gibraltar address? and set up a VPN network so I can still bet while in the UK.
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as far as i understand you would need a non UK bank account as well.ie youve got santander in the uk you tell them im moving to the rock they say you can still bank with us through our sub in the rock trouble is gibraltar is a crown dependency and therefore part of the UK
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the only way round it at the moment would be an irish address and bank account but thats euros.the residency rules in the isle of man alderney jersey gibraltar etc mean you wouldnt qualify
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Where does the point of consumption tax stand with the use of an agent for those books?
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Its not the tax, the agent would be taking an unlicensed bet. If it was small time you would run the risk of being defrauded and a bigger operation would be targeted, funds seized etc.
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I wonder if this could increase liquidity on here? I imagine it almost certainly would if Pinnacle were to stop taking UK business.
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Anything that increases liquidity can only be a good thing.
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Most of the business is done on Asian handicaps which are poor on here. Commission and Premium Charge makes them too expensive on BF.
These are international markets for gamblers all round the world. I cannot see the big English soccer based syndicates not using them after the point of consumption tax comes in. Will it be against the law for a punter to use a firm licensed elsewhere or just against the law for foreign firms to take the bets? |
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The bets laid on AH and on European handicap are layed by betfair bots. Who are they going to hedge with if they are unable to use Pinnacle and the Asian bookmakers?
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^^
ffs the tax is an entirely separate law. Its illegal to take a bet from a uk resident without a UK license from Oct 1st (planned) visa/mastercard have agreed to ban deposits on non-licensed sites. E-wallets are all regulated in some way so will be pressured to stop dealing with non-licensed sites. You will prob get your bank account shut if they notice that you are depositing/withdrawing from an illegal site. As I said above there are ways around it but if it goes pear shaped don't expect any sympathy. |
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Will it be against the law for a punter to use a firm licensed elsewhere or just against the law for foreign firms to take the bets?
as far as im aware only germany have a law in the eu which makes it illegal to try to bet with an unregulated (in that country) bookmaker/exchange. |
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most countries dont see it as a major issue and some already have taxes in place of which if you avoid after winning a lot your in trouble if you dont pay and get found out
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Pinnacle gone - just got e-mail - pulling out of UK.
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same here
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yep - what a disaster that is
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I seriously think there is a small chance that Pokerstars will pull out of the UK. It seems that the UKGC are being extremely picky about activity in grey markets, hence the withdrawal of the sportsbooks. Stars operates in grey and illegal markets and Amaya just paid a fortune to buy them, with a view to expansion particularly in grey markets, I can really see a chance of them pulling out.
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pinnacle sbobet and 12bet gone, what the fu ck we got in the uk? nothing.
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What are the house prices like in the Caribbean?
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why would pokerstars pull out of the UK?
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 pinnacle gone....nooooooooooooooooooooo |
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