Detailed Horse Racing and Football Stats

Not sure what stats you are after....but you can still access FOC as far as aware some information from link below re HORSE RACING :-

http://adrianmassey.no-ip.org/web1/

Click on FAVOURITES STATISTICS.....the click on CUSTOM REPORT......then you can check out information you might require.

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http://betting.racingpost.com/

You can get various information free without being a member.

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FLATSTATS site has some free information.
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TIMEFORM on Betfair has various information free etc
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As for FOOTBALL, some sites that may be of interest to you -

http://www.soccerstats.com/livescores.asp

http://uk.soccerway.com/

http://www.futbol24.com/

GL

and of course

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/stats

has free information.

dfc your a gent

will have a look at those sites

re horse racing i am looking to find out how profitable i would be backing certain things.

For example graham lee in class 5 handicaps

ryan moore in races over a mile

that sort of thing


For football it can be a number of things

for example

o3.5 goals in games which start in the evening

i want to find as much info as possible with historical betting odds to see if anything looks profitble to level stakes

RACING POST site....you click on a race...click on the jockey you want to check out.....click on what you are interested in ..TURF /AW/NH stats....click on DISTANCES etc etc ....

SPORTING LIFE site has JOCKEY riding for certain trainer percentages ......as does RP site.

For horses....

http://www.horseracebase.com

Free 3 day trial

Not free but cheap and updates:

http://www.betwise.co.uk/

Not a free site but I've found Proform a superb site for horse racing, literally thousands of systems you can test out with there database.

http://www.proformracing.com/

thanks a lot guys.

Going to check all these over the wkend and will let you know how i get on

A perspective:

as someone that moved from Canada to the UK in 2001, I arrived with zero knowledge on UK horse racing.

My betting was U.S. sports and football when I arrived.  Ironically, it was my local willie hills manager that introduced me to betfair.

As one that used ratings, etc, to bet on U.S. sports teams, I slowly built some clunky spreadsheets and took on the horses, mainly laying.

Years of mediocre success that dubs me a 'survivor' which, in this day and age of punting, is pretty good.

Four years ago, I took all my views in of systems and learnt that the best approach is actually using them as 'filters' to create a short-list of (a) races and (b) selections from those races. 

But, most importantly, from there, it is a matter of sitting down to the handful and being selective and understanding that sometimes the best bet is no bet on some events (i.e. let them win).

Stepping away from the raw data and putting in the graft has its pluses more than minuses but you learn from the minuses.  My biggest thing is having faith in my ability to handicap horses now.  I go through the entire field, select and price up two, maybe three horses then look at the prices on betfair.  As time consuming as it is, it makes you wiser when you price it up at 2/1 and the market has it at 4/5.  From there, I often find one at an EW price that has been pushed out. 

But I also have to have faith when I price up at, say, 6/1 and the market has it at 20/1. 

The reaction of a punter is "there must be something wrong with the horses" or "everyone else knows better". 

This week, everyone was hot on That Is The Spirit which I prices up at 9/2.  My next best was Shot In The Sun at 6/1.  The fave never came close to 9/2 (even in-running).  But Shot In The Sun was 17/1 in the morning.  I stuck with Shot In The Sun who came second by a length and a bit while the fave did win. 

But more often than not I'll find value and believe in the long run, more profitable.

The high of May:

Tuesday after bank holiday, rested:
6 winners from 7 selections, average 4/1 on the odds in the afternoon then 2 of 3 in the evening returning EW dividends.

The worst:
Yesterday, exhausted from York, 1 winner and some EW's returning a loss of 5 pts from 11 bets.

May has been profitable with more green than red days.

But it isn't down to systems.  Yes, I have them like an 'assistant' scanning the races for me.  But the final decisions come down to graft and not pixelated decisions.

one survivors view who uses speed ratings, team ratings and player ratings for tennis.

nice write up

You might find this video lets you see how to access data etc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrpaUEQ-e6Q

thanks for all responses

horceracebase sounds like the thing i am after

goin to sign up for a 3 day trial and play about with systems to check its what its what i am looking for

as far as i am aware they dont charge a sub fee but you are expected to make a monthly donation to help keep the site running.

May 18, 2014 -- 12:16AM, DFCIRONMAN wrote:

You might find this video lets you see how to access data etchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrpaUEQ-e6Q

What I love about his is someone is talking about building systems to sell using FREE sources.

Translated: if your systems are good, you would be in clover and could pay for decent platforms.

The future is not built on back-testing.

I got the impression that the initial guy on video was guiding people who sell "tips" for income.

Just thought the video gave insight into the layouts of certain sites that could be useful for PM1.

I devised  a "system", not using any of sites mentioned in video( I'd no idea such sites existed). The system was built on my observations on horse racing in Britain, and on what I believed were perceived "edges" that existed.

Almost 2,000 races were rated using the "system", which does initially produce basic ratings using RACE CARD information, but then there is subjective input based on key factors, before final ratings are produced.

The results of each of races were entered against each race's ratings to check out how the "system" fared . The "system" was devised to find horses at VALUE odds to back ( I did not devise it from LAYING perspective)........Having "back-tested" the ratings thoroughly and applying certain betting strategies on the rated races, then there is no doubt that the "system" worked to a high standard in indicating VALUE.

Without "back-testing" the ratings and results, then there would be no basis to go ahead using the "system" in future. Of course future major changes to horse racing in Britain would effect "system" probably, and the "system" would need to be reconstructed.

"Filters" re types of races rated, and size of fields, but the RANK positions and ODDS determine whether a BACK or LAY is worth doing or not. Currently no further in depth analysis of a race is done, as the "system" is trusted to produce ratings to a reasonably consistent standard to rely on RANK positions indicating a horse's chances to win in a race........however, the ODDS must be VALUE .

As HORSE RACING, in Britain,  is far more complex than say FOOTBALL, a complex "system" is more likely to work consistently well enough.....whereas FOOTBALL is more limited re complexity, so getting an "edge" is probably far harder with that sport! So BACK-TESTING probably less reliable with FOOTBALL for future games.

For example graham lee in class 5 handicaps

ryan moore in races over a mile

that sort of thing

You can get that in about 3 seconds on http://www.flatstats.co.uk/racing-system-builder.php

Select "G Lee" under Name then Jockey on system filters

Then "5" under Race then Class New

Lee appears to have a positive ROI of 9.6%, so you should have kept that one to yourself

It's far too easy to generate profitable systems from past data so beware of falling into the trap where you just filter things in and out until it makes a profit.

Your best resource by far is likely to be Proform as suggested above, but you are going to have to pay for that for sure.

dave1357


Lee appears to have a positive ROI of 9.6%, so you should have kept that one to yourself LaughLaugh

Should read 'Lee appears to have HAD a positive ROI of 9.6%'
Unless there is a logical reason for an above ROI, it is unlikely
to repeat.

Without back-testing, Graham Lee is on my short-list of jockey's.  Simply through observation then when I find a horse, if he is the jockey, a notch up.  If my 'danger' has him on, then I will sometimes notch down.  He's an incredible jockey and if selective, he can bring in the dosh.

So, to date, Graham Lee has an ROI of 9.6% 

BTW, opposed him today and he killed my bet on Hab Reeh.

lol I know ffs how many smiley faces do I have to use to denote a flippant remark?

So we just back G.Lee's mounts
and get a 9.6% return?

kenilworth, I think there is criteria mentioned.

Yesterday, I passed on all his rides though considered New Lease On Life EW (finished 4th).

But yesterday would have produced 100% ROI if backing all

May 22, 2014 -- 9:27AM, kenilworth wrote:

So we just back G.Lee's mountsand get a 9.6% return?

I think you are prob just trolling but..

OP asks for free stats resources and gives the example of G LEE in Class 5 races

I draw his attention to Flatstats that can provide stats for G LEE in class 5 very quickly and free

By coincidence  G LEE class 5 shows a historic profit so I remark on this and use the accepted internet method of denoting that a remark is not serious by ending it with smileys

Then you get all uppity

Fair summary?

Today, I went through my marks given to horses for May.

Regardless of class, going, etc, I looked at Top weight horses that I gave a mark of 55 or less.

May, 20 ran and 2 won
Apr, 28 raun and 3 won
Note, one horse the same in April and May

I haven't looked at the odds but what this does for me is allows me to put a line through a horse and look for the winner elsewhere.

As well, if the horse was the fave and the punters money is going on it, it would put more value into my each way finds

Second day I've passed on Graham Lee

14:20 Ayr - Bunce (IRE) *weights ?
15:25 Ayr - Titus Bolt (IRE) days
16:00 Ayr - Mister Bob (GER) Question mark last run priced 6/1
16:35 Ayr - Another For Joe have outside frame priced up 13/2
17:45 Ayr - Monel ran yesterday priced up 7/2

I have runners taking him on in every race.

435 the only class 5

Trainer had 2 in race in 2.20 ....Lee one did not win.....other one did !

TITUS BOLT in 3.25 looks one of his better rides.....though top weight may prove difficult to win with......though RAIN might help.


As trainer has so many horses out today ...and has 2 winners already......his horses appear to be in form ...and on home patch would no be surprised if he gets another  winner......TITUS BOLT looks to hold a fair chance to win today.....might be this one ...so would not take on.

Don't like the 4.35 ride for Lee.

GL today.

May 22, 2014 -- 2:08PM, SHAPESHIFTER wrote:

435 the only class 5

Another Joe wins

been laying around on horseracebase. got a 3 day free trial

the amount of data om there is incredible. could spend days at a time on it

been looking at the systems builder and have found something with is nearly £50 in profit to a £1 steak

plan is to try and find more!

Why would G. Lee be better in class 5 handicap
races and by definition, less successful in
other classes?

LAST 5 SEASONS...

    WINS     RUNS     %     2NDS     3RDS     4THS     WIN PRIZE     TOTAL PRIZE     £1 STAKE
2YO     51     398     13     53     49     49     £181,323.87     £340,779.26     -92.35
3YO     84     533     16     73     53     51     £358,654.52     £545,790.37     -131.63
4YO+     149     1371     11     151     145     170     £971,351.99     £1,806,414.14     -331.29
AW     101     709     14     107     80     90     £277,318.51     £458,830.73     -251.46
TURF     183     1593     11     170     167     180     £1,234,011.87     £2,234,153.04     -303.81


He is a very good jockey.....and don't believe he is just good in CLASS 5 H/Cs........He has a + with a number of courses to £1 stake....

Today the race was a "qualifier" for Scottish mile race final.......so today in the race he won his trainer probably wanted to win that race...and he did. It was CLASS 5.....but don't believe that was a relevant factor in him winning.

May 22, 2014 -- 7:07PM, kenilworth wrote:

Why would G. Lee be better in class 5 handicapraces and by definition, less successful inother classes?

As DFC, it's not just Class 5. 

That said, my view is that he's a jockey that seems to get either the best or extra out of a horse.

Today, if I took my selection, Ingleby Symphony, out of the mix, I didn't even have Another Joe as a danger rating it behind two others.

That said, it was down in weights.

If you look earlier in the meeting, Classy Anne won at 10/1 and was bottom weight plus jockey giving 7 and, later, Ellie's Image won off a rating of 45 beating my EW play.

But Another Joe was the most impressive and was gambled accordingly, winning by 6 lengths.

he gets more rides with good chances in class 5, if you have an understanding of horse racing, your know most of the day to day stuff
is class 6 and class 5 racing anyway. g.lee is a good jockey, no doubt about that.

The best?

good jockey or not - that is subjective

but stats do not lie ken

May 22, 2014 -- 8:03PM, kenilworth wrote:

The best?

Reliable.  Makes less mistake and patient.  Knows how to get the horse into a decent rhythm then when others start shuffling for early positions, he waits, let's them tangle themselves, then finds his slot.

pug, stats DON'T lie but they can distort. 9.6 ROI?
How many rides?
How many winners?
Winners prices?
A 33/1 winner turns a 20% loss(from 100 rides) into
a 13% profit, but not from a 1000 rides etc,
Lee looks an experienced journeyman jockey other wise
he wouldn't be riding the big priced horses he rides,
Be careful.

there are lots of articles about the bible code, its about secret messages hidden in the bible

then you can take harry potter books and find similar patterns

you need to know if your stats are a random pattern or a meaningful discovery


good luck

May 23, 2014 -- 10:04AM, donny osmond wrote:

there are lots of articles about the bible code, its about secret messages hidden in the biblethen you can take harry potter books and find similar patternsyou need to know if your stats are a random pattern or a meaningful discoverygood luck

Agree

Two factors that 'distort' stats is the timeline and context of each piece of data.

For time-line, you need to decide how far to go back and the debate could go on for days.  My personal view comes from trading on the stock market and I fiddled with standard formulas to create my own perspective and moving averages.

Context is, again, up to individual interpretations.

Two basic examples from sports that I developed with someone:

stats for baseball: he ignores extra innings and bases it on the nine innings.  We batted it back and forth for a couple of seasons and found the approach.  Thus, in our ratings, teams can 'draw' in baseball.  As well, each pitcher is given an 'index' so a player getting 4 hits at 4 at bats against a player with a lower index means less than, say, 3 hits from 5 at bats against a better pitcher.

We adapted the same index for tennis which worked well up to last year but is going through a flux.  We're watching it without tweeking since, overall, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

For horse racing, there was an example yesterday:

Alderbrook Lad was running with Joe Colliver's as jockey at Wetherby.  The pundit on Willie Hill had napped him and a listener emailed

"how can you back a horse when the jockey is 1 for 65 at the track."

This is a perfect example of when stats need to be put in perspective and all angles need to be weighed out.

If I feel a horse will run well under the conditions, the two steps for me with a jockey are if they have experience at the track and have they ridden the horse before (though the list of jockey's who can 'first time win on a horse' exists).

I had looked at Joe Colliver the last time Alderbrook Lad ran in April at the track.  At that time, Joe Colliver was 1 for 64 at Wetherby.

But look through the rides:

Joe Colliver's rides at the track have shown promise with several big priced horses making it into the top 3, often ahead of jockey's on better horses.  In Feb, he got a 94/1 shot into the frame in a ten runner race with no fallers (important, as well compared to stats that show a jockey winning when five of the ten runners pull up or fall *context).

So despite only one win, he knew the track and could get bigger priced horses around, especially in ground with give. As well, for 65 rides, only a few 'fell' and UR's. 
So, yes, one winner in 65 (May 11) but some fantastic riding.

Before April, how had Joe Colliver done on the horse: he has ridden Alderbrook Lad five times before April and produced two wins and two seconds.

So now we have a jockey who knows the track and, in my view, his experience coupled with a strong horse was worth backing.

That day when I backed the horse EW (5/1) and they fell around two or three out when leading though were under pressure. 

But the 'research' was done and I put it in the notebook which alerted me on Wednesday night.

Stats on the surface are, in my opinion, a bookies best friend.  But context of stats can tip the scales in the punter's favour and can be an important key to finding value when the price out because of their perceptions.

dfc and shapeshifter - see my atzeni fred on the horse forum

its referring to the system i built yesterday which i mentioned

gl if you follow