General Betting
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How can a small player like myself be targeted for this charge. I've made a slight profit for the last few years playing an edge that took me long enough to find. In the last two years I've been just about break even as I've explored for other edges that are worth playing. Last Saturday I had what can only be described as a one off big win (winner @500). My winnings come to 45% of my total lifetime P/L. Had I one a few more hundred it would of been >50% of my lifetime P/L (and no PC). Yesterday I was hit with a £726 PC bill, an absolute massive amount for myself compared to my usual win and loss amounts. Basically I was hit for not winning enough!
How can someone of my profile be bad for the exchange eco-system? I had a slight edge, now I don't but I was searching for a one using with what's left of my bank roll. I'm actually contributing to winners banks. How could I possibly be one of the "
How can someone of my profile be bad for the exchange eco-system? I had a slight edge, now I don't but I was searching for a one using with what's left of my bank roll. I'm actually contributing to winners banks. How could I possibly be one of the "
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Replies: 36
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Can't see why you are suprised.
Didn't they send you an email previously saying that PC was due and that they didn't take the first payment. If it was only a few hundred short of 50% you should have managed your account better and placed a bet equal to double of the shortfall. |
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If it was only a few hundred short of 50% you should have managed your account better and placed a bet equal to double of the shortfall.
Your protected from a big win not a one off good weeks profit! My first and only payment 2 years ago was about £40. Betfair are going after the low hanging fruit, which includes lucky recreational punters like myself! |
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Dam. You made me check and my premium portal has now changed to show lots of sums that I don't yet fully understand.
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It's mine field to understand Darlo. If you have a big win just make sure it's big enough to avoid PC. How winning less from the losers is worse for eco-system is beyond me, but the PC tax deems it so.
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I don't really do big wins so think I'm alright there. And for the time being it seems I'm a long way from paying PC because my %age of commission paid is too high. I'm intrigued as to why my PC portal has come available though since the last time I checked a couple of weeks back - especially when I actually lost money last week.
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How can a small player like myself
I've made a slight profit for the last few years You've made over £250,000 on BF, and you describe yourself as a small player. A small player is a punter who comes back year after year dropping £300 to £500 each year. Not one who has won a minimum of a quarter of a million and counting. |
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Somebody earning the median salary each year since BF launched would have earned about £250,000 from their day job, so saying you have made at least as much as 50% of people in the country, just on this gambling website alone, and describing yourself as a small player, in a slight profit, is, well, odd.
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You don't need to have made 250k to pay the PC, it just takes total charges to drop under 20%. I think you have misunderstood him as he's saying his win was nearly more than 50% of gross profits and then it would have been excluded from the PC charge.
Anyway betfair's pricing system is a joke, we can all agree on this. |
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I thought the threshold was 250k?
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10k yr1 part time +10k
12k yr2 part time +22k 16k yr3 part time +38k 18k yr4 part time +56k 24k yr5 full time +80k 26k yr6 full time +106k 54k yr7 full time +180k 75k +counting this yr +255k i wouldnt say i was a massive player or even a large one ballabriggs especially when you see some of the chunks smashing into each other. im sure many many players out there are betting my yearly profits in individual markets, im just very consistent in my markets i play and comfortable with my staking, iv watched almost every game of cricket on sky for years, iv been here since very early on and now that i feel im getting any 'good' ...im hit with these charges. im gratefull to betfair as i was a bet364 call operator and then 6k per yr p/t gym instructor before, but the pc is wrong on so many levels and the wrong ppl are running this company. balla... i cant quite work you out. You along with bot seem alot closer to betfair's info than most of us. You seem to think the pc is a ''brilliant'' company addition and would go further and charge the most consistent winners / newbie's even more with some sort of inverted u nonsense / optimal level. yet you slate bot (who may have had alternative motives ) when bringing in the x-matcher / best ex for betfair. To me, whilst i dont agree with the best ex, as a tool to serve betfairs purpose its seems a unbelievably bright idea, clever thing to do. When ever bot appeared on the other thread, like a stalker with a chip on his shoulder you quickly post your offerings / ideas (burning 1 million pounds publicity stunt????) i have to work hard, many hours to win my winnings, and to hear someone suggest the burning of 1 million pounds as a serious idea....well... i really dont know what to say. some of your ideas (betfair sb / betfair pro/exchange rebrand) i think would be great but i was gobsmacked by the political one. 1, doesnt bet / betfair plant 2, has regular bets on here, negative account balance. 3, account in profit 4, 20%pc 5, higher pc. balla...id be amazed if you were in groups 4 or 5. |
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No one would be moaning if you had to win 250k before you paid the PC, I certainly wouldn't. Look it up under the help and learning section on the betfair website.
ballabriggs you go on about the pc day in day out on the other thread and you don't even know the basics of it? Will my account be affected by the Premium Charge? Updated 27/08/2010 09.30 AM You will only be considered for the Premium Charge if, over the lifetime of your account, you satisfy all of the following criteria: Your account is in profit; Your total charges generated are less than 20% of gross profits; and You bet in more than 250 markets. Two further conditions reduce the likelihood that you will be required to pay the Premium Charge: Any single win that constitutes more than 50% of your gross profits over the lifetime of your account will be excluded from the calculation; and Each customer has a lifetime allowance of £1,000 of Premium Charges which can be incurred before any Premium Charge is paid. Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of: The difference between 20% of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and The difference between 20% of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account. Please note that for the purposes of calculating the charge we will assume that the charge has been in place since Betfair launched in June 2000. This means that we will consider all customers to have generated charges equal to at least 20% of lifetime gross profits as of the 12th October 2009. However, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used prior to 12th October 2009 in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. The assumption that hypothetical charges, less allowance, were paid prior to the introduction of the Premium Charge will typically reduce the Premium Charge a customer would incur. |
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Ridiculous thread
On first reding i thought you were someone who didnt regularly win, had one massive winner and charged. But you not, your just like most of the other people who pay the tax. You made 250k of course you pay the tax |
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I don't think the OP has won 250k? Unless he's betting £250 on 500 shots, which seems unlikely because then the pc would be alot more than £700!
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10k yr1 part time +10k
12k yr2 part time +22k 16k yr3 part time +38k 18k yr4 part time +56k 24k yr5 full time +80k 26k yr6 full time +106k 54k yr7 full time +180k 75k +counting this yr +255k jes no different from many paying the charge , he not stupid enough to be srprised at being charged , hes just attention seeking |
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thanks for bringing that to my attention ratty.
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A lot of misunderstanding of how PC works on here. It's not impossible to be paying PC at 20% (which, with 'implied commission' actually works out nearer to 22.5%) with lifetime profits of under £10,000.
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As far as I understand it, Ldee has not made 250k. This is not a requirement of PC. I believe he has made something like 10 or 11k and is paying PC on what is a one off from last week.
Seems a scandal that somebody who has made so little over the years should have to pay so much because of one result........even worse when as he says he actually won too little. If he'd won maybe a couple of hundred more there would be nothing to pay. |
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my apologies , didnt spot the slight difference in user names .
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Ldee 24 Oct 13 18:18
If it was only a few hundred short of 50% you should have managed your account better and placed a bet equal to double of the shortfall. Your protected from a big win not a one off good weeks profit! My first and only payment 2 years ago was about £40. Betfair are going after the low hanging fruit, which includes lucky recreational punters like myself! You've totally missed the point. Say you were £250 short of 50%. Place £501 at 10/1 Lose £501 and save PC of £726 Or win £5500 -PC. Either win £225 or £4400. |
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JML, the problem with that I imagine*, is that should he continue to win the 50% win would fall below the 50% threshold and at that point he would continue to pay premium charges on winning weeks regardless of the number of losing weeks he has in between. Until he was in the position that he'd paid back every penny he had saved.
* on the assumption that in practice this is how Betfair would deal with such a scenario. |
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This is my circumstance. Up until last weekend my lifetime P/L was £12k. My big one off win was for £5.5k, had my one off win been an extra £500 I would of paid no PC and would not be paying it in the near future. My commision generated was 22% before this win now it's 15%!
Over the last year I feel my small edge has almost disappeared so I started trying new methods. How can I possibly carry on trying to find new edges when I'm paying over £20% commision. If the last year is anything to go buy I may never win that £726 back, why should I pay it, it would be clearly better for me to just walk away. I can't possibly make it pay with these commision rates. With a win rate like that I find it very hard to believe that I'm in the top 0.5%. Many that have had one off big wins must of been hit like myself. It's nothing to do with the exchange eco-system its about taking from the easy targets to add to Betfair profit margins. |
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To be fair to Ldee, I withdraw my earlier posts. He/she should not be paying PC on lifetime exchange P/L of 12k. Many normal bookmakers will let you win this amount, and BF run a risk-free no trading team exchange. He/she should be allowed to win a fair bit more than 12k before being hit with PC.
PC should be in place to ensure non-skill based winners don't just pay 5% and withdraw 95% of their non-skill based winnings. |
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what is a non skill based winner ?
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haha. Another small punter hit by PC. That describes problem of many of us pal ;)
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what is the link to the portal, i havent looked at mine for a while.
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https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html
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my first ever week PC was £1263.73 - no warning, no email, no biggest win
I now HAVE to bet purple other than essentials here [seed the HR markets there most days] how can that be right? |
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what is a non skill based winner ?
It's a term used by winners with a superiority complex. |
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I thought winners just used it against anyone who was prepared to take a smaller margin U.A. The problem with the PC is so many people have a view on it despite not paying it or having a clue how it's calculated.
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just make sure you now don't lose that same amount next week cos the bstards won't refund you
ecosystem my fat @rse |
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Ridiculous thread
On first reding i thought you were someone who didnt regularly win, had one massive winner and charged. But you not, your just like most of the other people who pay the tax. You made 250k of course you pay the tax ________________ 250k ,really ? what's he on about then ? - feckin muppet  |
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... few?
When you're one of the few, To land on your feet... What do you do to make ends meet? Make 'em mad Make 'em sad Make 'em add two and two |
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a thinly veiled here somewhere..
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A thinly veiled 'thinly veiled' comment.
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paying PC on a 17.5k profit over 8 years is ridiculous
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