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Gin
19 Jul 13 12:24
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Date Joined: 02 Jun 03
| Topic/replies: 4,185 | Blogger: Gin's blog
Hi



As part of a wider review of Pricing at Betfair we have taken the decision to remove Transaction Charges from all Premium Accounts with immediate effect. Initially this is on a trial basis until 31st October 2013, if there is upside in terms of increased volumes and bet count then we will look to extend this further.



We believe this will help you with bet matching and in particular within markets where there are a number of runners.



Furthermore Betfair have also reduced the base commission rate to 0.5% for Asian Handicap markets in all Football matches. Again this is on a trial basis but the timings for this are from today (19th July) to 17th August when we will review the outcome.



Thanks



James





James Ellis

Premium Accounts Manager

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Replies: 89
By:
buzzer
When: 19 Jul 13 12:50
This has been kept fairly quiet too

Betfair is pleased to announce we will be reducing commission in our Football Asian Handicap markets to 0.5%. This pricing trial has already started and will run until August 17th, whereby upon successful results we hope to roll out for the rest of the Football season.

This fixed rate will apply to all customers betting on these markets. The reduction will override any regional pricing, so your commission on these markets will be 0.5%.
By:
ballabriggs
When: 19 Jul 13 14:32
Can't remember the last time Betfair did something intelligent.  Finally looks like they are putting some thought into what they do.
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 14:46
How does this help premium charge payers who are just gamblers?  As far as I can see it only helps traders who have lots of bets and generate transaction charges.

Premium charge is still a killer for small players. 

60% will still be paid by people who win as little as £20 per week.
By:
vonDiestelBoy
When: 19 Jul 13 14:52
It's a present for the high-frequenzy in-run horse trading botters and the penny-pinchers who sqeezing hundreds of footy markets at the same time at the saturday afternoon and blocking/killing the API and website with the bots.
By:
ballabriggs
When: 19 Jul 13 16:10
"How does this help premium charge payers who are just gamblers?"

Yep, 0.5% commission on asian handicaps in no way helps people who are just gamblers,.... smh.
By:
ann witt
When: 19 Jul 13 16:28
Is that the 0.5% that will be reviewed on the 17th August when the football starts?

hazel & von are correct.
By:
chrisblues
When: 19 Jul 13 16:48
once paid pc   on winning week of  3 pound   and pc  came to 1..30p

high roller my a ss

they do need to look at sliding   thing  as most made their wack   in 2003 to 2007
By:
chrisblues
When: 19 Jul 13 16:49
i think there  must be a sliding scale  while  paying pc  year by year not in the past only seems right

5k a year   pc 5 %
10k a year  pc 10%
25k a year pc 20%
50k a year pc 25%
100k a year pc 30%

250k a year pc 40%
1 million a year 50%
By:
pmbets
When: 19 Jul 13 16:52
Total non starter for PC players.Will not help me a single penny.
By:
chrisblues
When: 19 Jul 13 16:59
see lots of  buses  on usa racing  driving between gaps on the market lottaluck

even   the chat room  on 1000 plus   before pc    and now it     a wimper of  avg 50 to 100 a night sad times
By:
chrisblues
When: 19 Jul 13 17:03
Fixed Odds prices on the Exchange

We are continually trying out ways to simplify betting on the site. One piece of feedback we receive regularly is that placing a single fixed odds bet is difficult due to having to switch between exchange and fixed odds prices.

So this week we have started a trial to remove this complexity by offering only fixed odds prices on markets where the exchange liquidity has been poor.

You can view this now by going to our event page on Irish Football Games or in the screenshot below.

Here is an example:
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/football/event?id=27033983


worry times if that happen on usa racing RIP
By:
scoobytoo
When: 19 Jul 13 17:20
whoopee
By:
BetAngel
When: 19 Jul 13 18:15
chrisblues, where did you see that / get that from?
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 18:41
BA:

https://betfair1.uservoice.com/forums/192891-general/suggestions/4199537-fixed-odds-prices-on-the-exchange
By:
Total Bosman
When: 19 Jul 13 18:54
I thought, if there was an "upside" to the PC, it was to discourage or at the very least suitably charge the automated bot-runners skimming risk-free profits from the exchange.  This is a bonus for these people, but for the "honest" PC payer (including myself) trading on opinion through the ordinary interface and putting no strain on the system, this is useless.  Surely they are rewarding / encouraging exactly the type of customer they want the least?
By:
ballabriggs
When: 19 Jul 13 19:04
ffs Betfair have done so many useless things, it is time to give them credit when they actually miraculously do something right.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 19:13
true bb. it won't benefit me (and in fact will therefore probably negatively affect me in that it will benefit the competition), but at least for the first time in a while we're seeing some things happen that should boost rather than damage the exchange.

interesting to note that this is "part of a wider review". I wonder what the other bits will be?

also: a question. if the heavyweight bot players have no transaction charges, what safeguard is there against them hammering the servers so hard that they start falling over again on saturday afternoons?
By:
Thin and Crispy
When: 19 Jul 13 19:23
Sounds like a "Cunning Plan" worthy of Baldrick.
By:
john23
When: 19 Jul 13 19:44
Ditto to Ballabriggs and Viva's sentiments.

A few on here have been suggesting BF need to lower the commission to take the likes of Pinnacle and SBO on in the soccer markets. It looks like they might do.

First time in an age that reductions have been suggested, albeit, trials.  Therefore, its a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned and a complete change the constant hikes that happened under previous management.
By:
frog2
When: 19 Jul 13 19:50
Welcome news for those lucky enough to get the email. It allows market makers to do lots of markets at once.

The Asian handicap 0.5% is very interesting. They need to do it for the overs/unders markets and get rid of the PC on pre-play soccer and then IBC, pin and SBO will be under more pressure.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 20:51
yeah, a while back I posted something along the lines of "remember the halcyon days of 1% asians? we'll never see that again"

well, happy to be proved 100% wrong.
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 20:51
Ballabrigs... The email was from the premium account manager.  The Asian handicap 0.5% may help you but for premium charge clients like myself it is useless, we still pay 60%.  The transaction charge removal only helps those that pay it, the heavy API users. 

So to conclude, it's a bit of a con trick by the premium account manager to try and make premium charge payers like myself think that we are getting something.

As I have said before, betfair's strategy is to divide and rule.  This situation is just another example.
By:
JPG
When: 19 Jul 13 21:00
"yeah, a while back I posted something along the lines of "remember the halcyon days of 1% asians? we'll never see that again"

That was so long ago I'd forgotten that used to be the case!!! :)

Definitely a move in the right direction, competing with the likes of SBO requires bold/aggressive moves like this.
By:
jptrader
When: 19 Jul 13 21:30
Is "Premium Accounts" the same as accounts paying premium charge?
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 21:36
no, jpt
By:
ballabriggs
When: 19 Jul 13 22:02
Divide and rule is an anathemical concept to what Betfair have done hazel.  Betfair have a CEO who they have given a ridiculous contract to, he is under pressure to shove up charges everywhere, left right and centre, and hope the damage doesn't filter through by the time he leaves in 2 or 3 years time with a bumper sack of loot.  To take any step of reducing commission, especially given the lunatic contract they gave him, is worthy of high praise and will have taken guts. 

If they're prepared to take these two steps, which are the first in years of this ilk, then the chances are that there may be more to come.  So stop whinging, give praise where its due, and talk about what steps you think they should next consider looking at.  The last few years Betfair has been run in an ultra short termist, cynical way.  These steps show there is some class in the current management iteration.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 22:20
If they're prepared to take these two steps, which are the first in years of this ilk, then the chances are that there may be more to come.

----------

I'm not sure I see it that way. to me it's more likely they're going to replace the lost revenue elsewhere, very possibly through changing the discount system.

but, you know - moan about that when it happens. in themselves these are welcome moves - especially the 0.5% asians.
By:
jptrader
When: 19 Jul 13 22:34
So what is required to obtain the status of Premium account?
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 22:35
Complaining of Paying 60% premium charge on winnings as little as a few hundred each year is not whinging in my book.

Reading between the lines I would say that CEO is not being as forward thing as you describe.  I would say he his being short  termist in that he is trying to stop the decline in matching of bets in order to maximise his salary.  The email states quite clearly that if betfair don't see improvements in the very near future then these so called offerings will be stopped.  I don't think the cynical approach you mention has been cut, I would say it continues in full flow.

Yes a reduction in Asian commission is to be greeted with joy, but only joy for those not caught in the premium net.  Divide and rule.

I will keep complaining all the time small players like myself are treated unfairly in comparison with others, with a 60% premium charge.  It would have cost pennies to betfair to remove this injustice.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 22:44
The email states quite clearly that if betfair don't see improvements in the very near future then these so called offerings will be stopped. 

-------

well, tbf any company that tried something which cost it money and saw no benefit would be likely to scrap it. that's not really cynicism, that's just common sense.
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 23:06
Viva I was replying to ballabrigs  statement... " The last few years Betfair has been run in an ultra short termist, cynical way"

You say...."well, tbf any company that tried something which cost it money and saw no benefit would be likely to scrap it. that's not really cynicism, that's just common sense"

It follows, that from these new short term proposals that, we can say that betfair have never been cynical, but always used common sense.

Of course people like you and ballabrigs like betfair when they act in a way that helps you.  My wish to the tooth fairy is that one day I too will like betfair.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 23:17
why do you call them short term? the trial's short term, but unless you think they're flat out lying, there's a possibility that they'll be continued long term.

actually they won't affect any of the markets I usually work, so they don't really benefit me. they may even shift liquidity away from the ones I do work. and I'm no betfair apologist. I just think there's no point slagging them off when they do something positive.

apart from anything, how can we expect them to listen to customers if they get criticised whatever they do?
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 19 Jul 13 23:22
...and I don't see how anyone on 60%PC can call themselves a small player. even if you'd been on from day one, to qualify for it you'd have to have made more than the average UK wage over that time, tax free.
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 23:29
Viva I wish they would listen to customers.  Well they might listen to the ones they chose to listen too, but like heck I have tried to get them to listen to the unfairness of small time punters paying 60% premium charge.  It's obviously not a priority for them because it doesn't increase the salary and bonuses of the CEO.

Like I said early, these new changes are welcomed, but they only help non pc payers and those PC payers who  submit more then 1000 bets per hour.  Something to help the small time pc payer who doesn't use an API is long overdue.
By:
lanza
When: 19 Jul 13 23:34
very easy to be a small player and be in the 60% group.
By:
hazel
When: 19 Jul 13 23:35
Viva the pc was based on past performance.  If it was based on recent activity I would not complain.  Just think of someone earning 100,000 a year in the past who  now has annual income of  £1,000.  Would you tax them on past performance?  Doesn't happen in the world outside of betfair.
By:
lanza
When: 19 Jul 13 23:36
so true hazel... so true. Sad
By:
ballabriggs
When: 20 Jul 13 00:02
Hazel, if you are on 60% it is because you win almost every single market you play on, and have taken out at least 25k per year average over 10 years.  These Betfair moves are positive, and ignoring them by saying you want to have more benefits personally from a site you were paying around 5% commission on your winnings to, at the rate of 25k+ a year for 10 years, is ridiculous.  Divide and rule is also a completely bonkers reference.
By:
hazel
When: 20 Jul 13 00:25
Ballabrigs you are confusing past with present.  Historically it may be 5%, but that was the past.  I am as good as on 60% for life.  Yes I could get it to 50%, but I would have to bet huge amounts of money, money I don't have.  It would take so many years to get on 50% that I would statistically be dead.

Divide and rule is very appropriate.  If you recall betfair made big play of the fact that the premium charge only affected a very small percentage of customers, and the majority need never worry.  In my book that's divide and rule.

The fact that non pc payers are concerned with commission rates, and pc payers have no benefit from any reductions is of no consequence to the majority.  Yet another example.

The fact that only heavy API pc payers who submit more than 1000 bets per hour benefit from the removal of transaction charges and not the other pc payers is yet another division.  And confusion of the charging system.

Why are we arguing now??  You might say I am bonkers, I might say that you are only seeing things from your perspective.
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