HOW LONG CAN BETFAIR KEEP TAXING

Well, I hope it's not the end of P2P betting ... but the signs are certainly there.

I'm a fairly late arrival on the scene and I'm really struggling to make any headway even without Premium Charges. But from what I've read on here it seems that the PC was the beginning of the rot. It's as if they've become hell-bent on killing the proverbial goose. They're behaving more and more like the banks. They've bought into a greed-is-good philosophy and have destroyed the goodwill that seems to have once existed with their older customers.

Very sad indeed. Because the original concept of P2P punting was the greatest thing that has ever happened to the gambling industry.

The sad thing about the Premium Charge is the scare factor.The ones who pay it will continue to pay it if they have a big enough advantage but the rest give up trying to win because they couldnt win with the premium charge.Its like the bookies limiting/restricting punters,the ones who keep winning will open new accounts etc and keep finding ways around it but the dream has gone for the smaller punter to make a living from gambling so they give up and end up spending their money on something else instead.Sad but true.

I couldn't personally invest in Betfair but the share price remains robust enough under a very challenging economic and regulatory backdrop.  I suspect they felt forced to increase charges because of short term pressures on revenues and profits because of the challenging business environment they face.  It's hard to see how they can increase charges again (other than to lower the threshold below £250k and I imagine that doesnt bring in much) so they have to focus on growing and keeping the business now rather than on getting more out of the business they've already got.  It will be difficult.

Currently its £6.82.  Over the last 18 months its highest is £8.92 in that period and its lowest £5.71.  At the time of the PC3 announcement it was £8.50ish and it hasnt been over £10 for 2 years.  Thats robust enough

groomer

I actually think there's scope for bf to put their basic tax up, maybe by having starting comm. at 6%.

Their rivals the online bookies no longer look to horses or really sports for growth and are benefiting from a permissive regulatory environment with their moneyspinners, the FOBTs. Over half group profit for some estates comes from the machines.

The bookies are being clobbered with media rights fees from courses and costs for two racing broadcasters. Wd they stop growing if they imposed some kind of betting tax or transaction fee on betting on horses, trying to get punters onto virtually any other kind of punting?

This wd kill off the few arbers that make up part of their volume on early price horses and result in their having a horse betting population almost identical to the fruit machines players.

Meanwhile bf wd be the only game left in town for horse players, with acceptable late volume and arguably trader-friendly pricing at higher comm.

been like that for a few months shirley


Betfair Customer Services 24 Aug 12 11:08 
Planned changes to Betfair’s live video service are due to take effect as of the 28th of August. All races subject to a bet before view qualifying stake will increase from £2 to £5 (or currency equivalent).  All UK and IRE racing markets will be subject to this change.  Live video for RSA and USA will continue to be provided with no associated fee.

Matched bets totalling a minimum aggregate of £5 will be required in order to watch associated streams. Aggregate matched bets on the following markets will qualify:

•    Win
•    Place
•    BSP bets
•    Tote bets

Combinations of bet types (e.g. £2 Tote exacta and £3 Exchange place) will qualify to watch live video for all markets which are subject to a bet before view qualification.

Unfortunately bets on Multiples do not currently qualify, although this is something that we are working on to change in future.

Lastly, following a recent site upgrade, the live video service is now also available to use from within the market view on our new site.

The other exchange lets you watch if you haven't had a bet half the time, and they only ask for a £2 bet anyway.

Maybe pulling the curtains down  in Europe has helped things on their way

as in a boat ?

if everyone moved they would drop it! empty exchange with 60% ? lets see what ladcrooks come up with the daq

tbf i don't think the exchange emptying has that much to do with the charges ,i think its a combination of things while the charges don't help ...the exchange wasn't this bad 6 months  ago .


maybe fewer overseas customers the main reason ?

The people who pay it are those who win every bet. If you win more than you lose but you lose a lot of bets too, you are less likely to pay the charge.

not everyone that pays pc is using a bot , is on course or anything else .
i pay it , i back or lay or both pre race and bet in running using gruss and that's it .

there are still a few massive markets for betfair to try and get into.
india
usa
china

trevh, the prob. is that bf wd prefer certain highly monitored relationships w/ marker makers and layers whose m. o. is to leave a sizeable chunk of their winnings in comm.

Anything more agile, more selective or more judgment-oriented that wins is equivalent to them for a winning customer, and that is not what they want as a bookmaker.

Yr motivation I wd guess is the same as mine, to get to offer bad-value odds in early markets w/ just enough liquidity and little enough tax (of any kind) to make it pay. I can't see why bf needs anything but money churning between all but their incumbent MMs in the late markets.

If you are paying Betfair 50% taxation that means before tax you are have only paid 5%-10% of your profit in commissions. Pay your dues by providing some liquidity by churning some breakeven bets.

betfair will be concentrating on the fixed odds side of the business from now on !   lets hope another decent exchange can manifest in the coming years !

I think providing prices in unpopulated markets is pushing it, and certainly the minority of my work.  The number of markets I'm setting the prices on are negligible in the grand scheme of things.

I have no chance in hell in renegotiating terms.  Me placing fewer bets has next to no effect on Betfair, but I won't be the only PC payer reducing liquidity and the overall effect would be, in my view, noticeable.  It's one of the reasons many people are saying they're witnessing a fall in liquidity in a whole swathe of markets.

Funnily enough Froggy Pinnacle have an interesting article regarding the drop in liquidity on Betfair that has been noted for the Aus Open. You'll find it in 'betting articles'found on their front page.

FAFH, I have no idea why I wrote "persuading people to go elsewhere."  I probably meant "persuading people to no longer bet on some markets."  I'm sure some go to the purple mob, some to Pinnac1e, but I really don't know.  I don't follow what's happening with Betfair in any detail and know nobody else - apart from online - who is involved in making a living through here.  I can only explain how PC affects me.

I doubt BF are worried, but as more and more people fall into the PC category - I'm assuming a lot more people come in than fall out - it will have a greater impact.