Betfair limiting Fixed odds

Just what you'd expect from the most ironically named company in the world.

Just makes a mockery of the offering.  Advertise it to the hilt on twitter and restrict punters from using it - what is the point?

Have emailed Betfair - will post any reply

Possibly something along the lines of "Our crack trading team's decision is final"

As Betfair gradually morphs into a bookmaker, they will gradually take on all the relevant characteristics, including refusing to take bets from anyone they judge has even an outside chance of knowing the true value of the bet.

Unless they change their name, morphing into a bookmaker (I agree thats exactly what they're trying to do), will destroy them. People will not forget what this company is supposed to be and will feel like a cheated partner.IMO

I have spoken with our fixed odds team who deal with the liabilities we allow customers when betting against Betfair on fixed odds and they have confirmed that it is purely a trading decision on their behalf, however Betfair do value your business and we do hope to facilitate it on the exchange.

if BF venture more and more into fixed odds  will that mean that bookies will venture more into p2p ?

companies such as laddies have the cash,the background and the stability ,i mean they've been around for years - maybe ?

folk will say ,why would they bother ?

well ,bookies must be reaching saturation point ,all offering the same ...there is a market for p2p if it's managed  right,and a profitable one at that

Yeah, I think they will end up shooting themselves in the foot.  Liquidity on BDAQ has been improving of late - annoy enough people and the switch could be rapid.

**** might as well bury itself ,i have not seen any business improvement over there in 2 years now  ,although slightly more players

BTDAQ 


hopefully they may one day improve the site

There have been rumours of Ladbrokes buying BDAQ.  Not something I follow closely but hope it's going to happen.  I think now's the time to add a bit over there, although not expecting it attracts many mugs.

Dec 11, 2012 -- 11:05AM, Templeton Peck wrote:

There have been rumours of Ladbrokes buying BDAQ.

That would be great news and would set up a decent rival to BF.

good find Templeton -  first i'd heard

Ladblokes buying out Bettdaq?
by andyfuller » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:09 pm

Just noticed a thread title on General Betting over at Betfair, unfortunatly like many anti Premium Charge people, I am banned from the Betfair Forum so can't read the thread.

Is there any truth in this or just a rumour?

Would be an interesting development....


______________

looks like this rumour has been around for some time , Laddies have been in talks before with other companies but tend to pull out

Do Betfair get their fixed odds prices from the exchange, and if so do they hedge any bets they have taken there?

If so are they still an exchange?

bumblebeessting  11 Dec 12 14:54
Do Betfair get their fixed odds prices from the exchange, and if so do they hedge any bets they have taken there?

If so are they still an exchange?

Betfair are 100% a bookmaker. Read their submissions to the levy board. Betfair are a bookmaker with much more sophisticated hedging software than the likes of Lads, is their main argument. Betfair will only take a bet if it is possible to match the other side immediately etc etc

It's hardly surprising that they would restrict bets on fixed odds. After all, they have a full service history of punter's performance. And just because they are offering fixed odds doesn't mean they will give up on exchange betting. It is very easily made profit.

Their response which in some ways is hard to argue with but it does still go against their stated customer policy aims:

Thank you for your e-mail.

I appreciate your frustration surrounding this issue, which until now has never been a problem, as this does not affect the exchange product, only fixed odds.

While our trading team will attempt to accommodate every customer enabling them to place bets on the fixed odds with no limitation, unfortunately to manage their liabilities across such markets, this is not always possible. This is common across all bookmakers in the UK, who will at times, implement restrictions like this, which does unfortunately have a negative impact on customers.

Generally, they will only restrict accounts that are attempting to place bets on selections where the odds are too high for us to cover a liability for, or alternatively restrict customers who are overly profitable on the fixed odds product.

While the exchange multiples product is available, you may be better off placing multiples via this method, where the odds are derived from the exchange, and thus will have less liabilities to cover, allowing you to have more freedom in the odds and stake you select.

I will pass your concerns onto our trading team, however I suggest that you use the “site feedback” section of the website, where we encourage our customers to voice their opinions and concerns regarding our products, which are taken into account upon amending our products in the future.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

Bit rich to call themselves bookmakers when they won't take bets unless they can lay off any liabilities on us (with a nice little skim in it for them, of course). It's like the owners of the Tate Gallery calling themselves artists.

Coachbuster 10 Dec 12 19:09 Joined: 08 Apr 06 | Topic/replies: 21,521 | Blogger: Coachbuster's blog
folk will say ,why would they bother ?

well ,bookies must be reaching saturation point ,all offering the same ...there is a market for p2p if it's managed  right,and a profitable one at that

No way, it's the other way around: Betfair want to get people away from the exchange and onto fixed odds, casino and other high margin products. If a successful traditional bookie ran an exchange, they'd just cannibalise their own margins.


However, it would be possible for a traditional bookie to run an exchange, but probably with an advertising budget of zero, focusing only on the price sensitive customers who wouldn't bet (or wouldn't be allowed to bet) with the traditional bookie anyway. All advertising funds would be used to promote high margin activity. That would make it difficult to compete with Betfair.

A new betting exchange competitor has embraced a pure betting exchange model without fixed odds, casino , multiples etc. but I think they'll struggle. The upside is huge if they succeed of course.

Investor, well put it another way then ...

at what point do you think  bookies will start reaching saturation point ?  it seems to me like a hugely competitive market with high advertising costs

OK .just looked at quite a few p/tx profit's from 2011 from the big players ,quite a few have high street outlets ,Bet365 (on-line only ) outperforming BF in 2011 



may be some time

Investor, you make some interesting points. Do you think the exchange model is viable in the long-term?

For my money there's two types of gamblers.

1) The ones who only bet with the high street bookies in their shops - that market will probably always be there.

2) The ones (like us) who bet at the best price online with no affection towards any particularly bookie.

The reason why Betfair fixed odds was such a bad idea is they aren't going to get those in Camp 1 to move across and those in Camp 2 will ONLY use fixed odds where it is advantageous to them price wise.  So actually what will probably end up happening is everyone on BF will get limited! and they will just disband it.

My response to Betfair will be along those lines.  Fixed odds just won't work with Camp 2 no matter how many tweets they put out.

nigel

do you think there is a massive shift from the high street to online ,or do you think these are two different type of customers ?

would like to hear thoughts on this

who plays on bet365 - is it youngsters,folk in isolated areas  ?  seemed odd 10 years ago the idea  of someone with a bank account logging onto bet 365 who at the same time is  possibly a destitute/addicted  gambling man

Dec 12, 2012 -- 12:34PM, Coachbuster wrote:

nigel do you think there is a massive shift from the high street to online ,or do you think these are two different type of customers ?would like to hear thoughts on this who plays on bet365 - is it youngsters,folk in isolated areas  ?  seemed odd 10 years ago the idea  of someone with a bank account logging onto bet 365 who at the same time is  possibly a destitute/addicted  gambling man

There's probably more people who have moved into Camp 2 but Camp 1 is still strong - just walk past (or God forbid go in!) any betting shop on a Saturday morning - often packed.  Betfair will never reach to those in Camp 1 who don't care about price.  Problem is for Betfair that the majority of Betfair's customer base originally came to Betfair based on price.  They will ultimately end up limiting the majority of customers on fixed odds this way.  Not only will this irritate existing customers but will also reduce any volume within the fixed odds offering rendering it near useless.

Nigel - yes ,have been past the bookies lately  lol - 

so would you say there is a similarity between current BF customers (the bulk ,not pro's) and b365 customers for example ?

I reckon there is a sizeable camp 3

3) The ones who bet online with their preferred bookie or exchange.  They think that they look for the best odds but they don't look very hard because after all, a winner is a winner.

There are many of these and a glance at almost any price graph provides an indication of how many.  These are the betfair fixed odds and multiples target customers.

when i was 18 or so ,i thought i was being smart by looking at the different prices of 5 or 6 bookies  and taking the best on offer in a race/match thinking it was a road to riches

happy days

I know some very smart people who work in a numerate environment and would fall into camp 3, even though I've shown them sites such as Oddschecker.  Gambling does odd things to people.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 6:51PM, Templeton Peck wrote:

I know some very smart people who work in a numerate environment and would fall into camp 3, even though I've shown them sites such as Oddschecker.

S*d it, I am not going to type that back out again.  It was b0ll0cks anyway

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:29PM, ShirleyKnot wrote:

I reckon there is a sizeable camp 33) The ones who bet online with their preferred bookie or exchange.  They think that they look for the best odds but they don't look very hard because after all, a winner is a winner.There are many of these and a glance at almost any price graph provides an indication of how many.  These are the betfair fixed odds and multiples target customers.

Interesting.  That would surprise me but you could be right.

While our trading team will attempt to accommodate every customer enabling them to place bets on the fixed odds with no limitation, unfortunately to manage their liabilities across such markets, this is not always possible. This is common across all bookmakers in the UK, who will at times, implement restrictions like this, which does unfortunately have a negative impact on customers.

Generally, they will only restrict accounts that are attempting to place bets on selections where the odds are too high for us to cover a liability for, or alternatively restrict customers who are overly profitable on the fixed odds product.


only losers welcome then

why do people moan about this?

If you're a winner:
You cannot bet elsewhere
Betfair allow you on the exchange (which is brilliant)
Betfair launch a new product to help increase the appeal of the website, brining more recreational punters to Betfair (which is good for you, since some of the new punters money will go into the exchange), and, in line with the rest of the market, don't allow winners.

So:
Fixed Odds is good for winners, even if they cannot bet on it.
I have no idea why anyone would have expected Betfair to allow winners to use Fixed Odds.

The way they banged on about their "crack trading team" you'd think they may be prepared to take the occasional view for some sort of liability rather than this outright banning of winners.

.
.JLivermore     18 Dec 12 17:46 
why do people moan about this?



Betfair allow you on the exchange (which is brilliant)
Betfair launch a new product to help increase the appeal of the website, brining more recreational punters to Betfair (which is good for you, since some of the new punters money will go into the exchange), and, in line with the rest of the market, don't allow winners.

So:
Fixed Odds is good for winners, even if they cannot bet on it.
I have no idea why anyone would have expected Betfair to allow winners to use Fixed Odds.
the silverback     20 Dec 12 14:17 
The way they banged on about their "crack trading team" you'd think they may be prepared to take the occasional view for some sort of liability rather than this outright banning of winners.




Are you playimg with a full deck
If you're a winner:
You cannot bet elsewhere
ok if your a winner you pay up to 60 percent tax,you really telling us we have to bet with betfair.---dummy

No, I wasn't saying you have to bet with Betfair... just pointing out that they will at least let you bet with them, even if not on Fixed Odds, and that this is better than the competition.

Well, i would imagine anyone would let you bet with them, if you only paid them aprox half there winnings.
Had to explain to someone last week,why i could not bet a horse for him on betfair.Lovelly chap but i had to tell him to go to billys and be happy takeing shorter odds.He said that the pc charge was unbeliveable,
and had been thinking of opening betfair acc himself, but even after i explained he would prob never fall into the tax bracket he went off the idea.

The bf response suggests the company has separate silos--fixed odds and exchange and customer mgt--who do not really understand what the others do or agree w/ each other.

A 'fixed odds' team will typically accept the bet of a historic loser and knock back the identical bet of a historic winner, or someone who only takes positive expectation bets.

Like every other betting company, bf play the man, not the ball.