A question for current big 4 betting shop managers

Without question? If large enough stake nothing tbh, unless maybe it was a special/Xmas bet. Almost anything over 1 or 2k is likely to get monitored. Makes sense all round if u think about it. Very few bet thousands in a single bet therefore only makes sense to monitor them

Kev, that sounds like a fairly high threshold. I havent used a betting shop on a regular basis since the late eighties, but my early experiences using there online versions suggests that they are ultra cautious when it comes to anything over a hundred quid.

What market are you trying to arb in? & which of the big 4? I will give you the ptl limits...

Hi Jack,

I'm not an arber.I'm strictly an old school punter, betting mainly on the horse racing markets. When I last used the high street bookies in the late eighties if your bet was above a certain amount,it triggered a call to ask if the bet could be taken. Obviously nowadays I would imagine this is taken care of with the technology they have in place, I'm just trying to find out approx what amount would trigger an alert.

i work in a coral shop (unfortunately) and the technology you speak of is very very advanced. its an A4 size piece of paper with a printed chart on behind the counter with the different customer grades across the top and then the limits to theses grades on the different events listed below that, for example (and off the top of my head as the chart isnt infront of me), if you walked in my shop you are a U grade (unknown) and i think your allowed 199 quid on a sp\show price horse. 200 quid and then id be on the phone for ptl. id also be monitoring your next 10-20 bets to decide wether you turned into an A grade (accepted) customer with highter ptl limits on the chart or a X grade customer and ill let you work that one out yourself....

From Lads screen;
Horses
Single EP £100 max win £1000
Single sP/BP £500 max win £5000
Fcast £400
Tricast £100
Match bet & dist £400
Not shown in shop £100

Greyhounds
Single EP £100 max win £1000
single BP/SP £200 max win £2000
Trap challenge £200
FC £20
Tricast £25
not shown in shop £100
Virtual £500

Football
eng Prem £500 max win £2500
Scot Prem £500        £2500
Televised £500        £2500
Other mathces £250

bet you can pile as much as you like into a FOBT.

My experience as a customer is that Lads and Mountains will allow a losing or unknown customer to bet to win 1,000 quid on the horses.

Coral will phone up any stake over 50 quid. On monitored early prices e.g. Pricewise an A grade customer (mug) will be allowed 50 pounds and an X grade customer 10.

From the moment you put your foot across the threshold of any shop, your biggest struggle as a price-taker is going to be getting on. You want to use placers, to split up your bets between shops, to change your handwriting whenever you don't know the cashier, to use different handwriting in different shops, to put horses in multiples w/ non-runners and other forms of disguise etc etc from the get-go.

It's not possible to have an old-style adversarial or opinion-based relationship any more.

If you can disguise your activity very cleverly, you can still get thousands on though.

Yuvutu,Dixie and Askari, Thankyou, thats really helpful and interesting. The amounts allowed are greater than I thought they would be, and as you say Askari it definately makes things feasible.

thank again lads.

GPTSpot on

Think you will now have most of the info you need. The only possible thing I can add which may be of use is; If you are betting the obvious warm / arb selections Price wise etc then they will be limited to much much lower via messages on the managers screen.

There will also be geographical limits on various markets. For example no one down south can get more than a tenner on Sittingbourne Bags because of the teams filling the shops in. Will likely be the same for the horses.

Good luck.

Id seriously consider finding some friends (Wife, kids, whoever) to open you some online accounts. Much easier than traipsing round the shops & both will end up getting shut down eventually.

Or just use Betfair or any other exchange ?
And then throw in Pinnacle also.
Bob's your uncle.

Because the selections most people will want to back will mostly be bigger with the shops than on here. But of course hardly anyone admits to arbing them. 99% of them are 'old school' punters or the 'value' brigade.

Not disputing the value concept. I mean purely the people who use it as a smokescreen for arbing.

JackS, Thanks for your help. I did the online accounts thing a few years ago and to be honest it was a joke. I tried quite a few firms and my experience was the same with all, in that as soon as they realised your not a complete mug, your account is restricted so severely that they just arent worth the hassle. As for traipsing around the shops, I wont be doing that personally, alhough the excersise wouldnt do me any harm

askari1 08 Oct 12 16:14 Joined: 29 Nov 01 | Topic/replies: 1,509 | Blogger: askari1's blog
My experience as a customer is that Lads and Mountains will allow a losing or unknown customer to bet to win 1,000 quid on the horses.

Coral will phone up any stake over 50 quid. On monitored early prices e.g. Pricewise an A grade customer (mug) will be allowed 50 pounds and an X grade customer 10.

From the moment you put your foot across the threshold of any shop, your biggest struggle as a price-taker is going to be getting on. You want to use placers, to split up your bets between shops, to change your handwriting whenever you don't know the cashier, to use different handwriting in different shops, to put horses in multiples w/ non-runners and other forms of disguise etc etc from the get-go.

It's not possible to have an old-style adversarial or opinion-based relationship any more.

If you can disguise your activity very cleverly, you can still get thousands on though.

For football, all the big bookies will let you have £200 without phoning through I find.

The horses are dying because the OR is awful in the mornings and the only people betting in size are the arbers, the winners and the insiders.

Even if they sat close to the bf price, the shops could lay a spread of business and make a profit. But they don't want to get their pants taken down, because the money here is so thin that the bf tissue is worth almost nothing.

Small-meeting horses are just a cover for the FOBTs.

Aliardup, I've never found it difficult to find losing placers but you perhaps need friends you can trust, who are going to have a relationship w/ you outside of their/your hobby/addiction.

Do your damndest to lose in the shop--if you're doing an ew double, do a bad ew race and a Pricewise extra or tipster line selection, not two bad races flagged up on the managers' screens. Find arbs that aren't high-profile.

Try simulating the betting of losing punter--having more on a shortie when you have either won or lost significantly. With mobile access, you will be able to get out for a very minimal loss. You can also make a show of playing the machines when you are losing against a 102.7% overround (I actually thought this was 100%, but 0 is not even). A manager is very reluctant to restrict someone who looks as if he is going to start to lose sigificantly.

askari, Interested in your experience of finding "placers". Have they generally been people that you got to know from the shops? I think the trust aspect depends on whether they are using their own money or yours. If its the latter then obviously they have to be people that you know and trust. If its the former then trust isnt quite so important as obviously if they let you down, they're out. Not sure which route I'm going to take yet.

you haven't been in a betting shop for 25 odd years

were you done for murder ?

Once you are recognised as a winning punter you will be restricted to zero stakes in shops. They may allow you modest amounts to SP only but of course if you continue to win they will refuse your bets outright

Capt F,

Yes

No I used to go in on odd occassions but by then I used to do most of my betting at the races, less/no tax, no smoke, and generally able to get better odds.