General Betting
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Having another go at using an autorefresh (the free one from Gruss) and as per usual I'm terrified of having to pay charges.
Firstly, am I correct that the number I type into the box is the refresh speed in milliseconds, so 1000 is every second, 2000 is every two seconds.
Secondly, how fast can I do this. I usually manually refresh about once every 1-2 seconds anyway but that's only one window. I'll be running this on 2-3 windows.
As I understand from Betfair's rather complicated charges there are different types of information being sent to me with each refresh. What I don't really know are which things are being sent.
I'm assuming P+L and price are being sent, so that counts as 2 things, would that be correct? Is one runner the same as ten runners (so one market?)
At that speed, I'd be safe on once per second per screen (I think it would be about 6 things if I had three screens) but again, I'd rather be safe than sorry and I want to understand the maths behind it - particuarly worried there may be other things that 'refresh' downloads that I don't know about
Thanks to anyone patient enough to answer, I'm rather bothered about the prospect of RSI in the future as much as anything.
Firstly, am I correct that the number I type into the box is the refresh speed in milliseconds, so 1000 is every second, 2000 is every two seconds.
Secondly, how fast can I do this. I usually manually refresh about once every 1-2 seconds anyway but that's only one window. I'll be running this on 2-3 windows.
As I understand from Betfair's rather complicated charges there are different types of information being sent to me with each refresh. What I don't really know are which things are being sent.
I'm assuming P+L and price are being sent, so that counts as 2 things, would that be correct? Is one runner the same as ten runners (so one market?)
At that speed, I'd be safe on once per second per screen (I think it would be about 6 things if I had three screens) but again, I'd rather be safe than sorry and I want to understand the maths behind it - particuarly worried there may be other things that 'refresh' downloads that I don't know about
Thanks to anyone patient enough to answer, I'm rather bothered about the prospect of RSI in the future as much as anything.
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Actually multiply that by 2 because it's through the website. So 12 things per second - that's already worryingly close to 20.
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Lori, I think they waive the charges the first time you hit them to give you a chance to mend your ways.
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Cheers Feck, I'm rather hoping that failsafe is in there too - I'm overly paranoid I know but have images of getting a £3000 fee by accident or something!
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I think the maxcalls per second through the free API is call specific. i.e. if you can call a 20 times per sec and b 20 times per sec then calling them 20 times each inside the same second is OK even though you've made a total of 40 calls.
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Not quite true Feck.
The free API puts limits which are call specific, e.g. 60 times per minute, after which you receive a "throttle exceeded" message. The data charges apply to ANY calls for market information, in total more than 20 per second. Above this you pay 0.1p per call. Getting the market prices counts as one call whether there are 2 runners or 20. Of course you should check the Betfair terms carefully for details. |
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You're right Divide, I'm talking sh1te. The free API is per min, not second as I was stating.
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The Data Call charges are detailed at:
http://www.betfair.com/www/GBR/en/aboutUs/Betfair.Charges/ (about half way down the page) and the Throttles on calls via the Free API v the Full API are detaild at; http://bdp.betfair.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=64 enjoy  |
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Thanks gus, just looking at those pages gives an idea of how nutty betfair are. WALOFS to match 2 people's bets.
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I'd recommend running a short pilot and asking the help desk for a report on your usage
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These data request charges are a killer. Even trading manually, I use more than 20 per second, but hardly ever pay as commission covers it.
Betfair should really massively increase the number allowed as technology improves over time, we should be allowed to make more requests/transactions. Just like we get 2GB in our email rather than 2MB in the '90s, Betfair should move with the times, and with improved technology an increase in capacity should be passed on to customers. |
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Agreed. I think they should also only impose them at times when the system is stressed, there could be an api status for this.
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About time Lori :) I use the £6/mnth Gruss so it's probably different to yours, but if you upgrade you can navigate to Options/Preferences/Throttling and set a 'requests per second' limit.
I use a 1 second refresh and 10 requests per second limit, often have 20 different markets open at one time (although that does slow the refresh down) and have never paid any data charges. Take a look at the following page: http://www.betfair.com/www/GBR/en/aboutUs/Betfair.Charges/ and scroll down to number 5) where they give examples that make it all a bit clearer. Just read it again myself and thought this bit was interesting: Betfair counts requests by logging the time and date that a request is received. Then, the number of requests received in any one second are added together. It is important to note that seconds are counted as wall-clock seconds, i.e. the time between one second and the next on a clock, not as a period of time lasting 1000ms. In other words, if you make 30 requests between 12:02:00 and 12:02:01, you will have exceeded the limit by 10 requests. |
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Sorry gus, I see you already linked that page.
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Cheers everyone for all the replies.
I'd looked through the charges page before posting and some bits are still a bit unclear, so I'll go with cat's advice on a quiet day and see how that works out. Thanks again everyone. |
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I use the same one lori, had it set at 100 and never paid transaction charges
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The free API (product ID 82 when logging into it) auto throttles your requests so you can never exceed the limit. Handy if you are writing you own bots - I THINK that the geeks toy uses the free API, but you may want to check on his forum or his docs pages. Essentially you cant get done for charges if you use the right kit.
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At the risk of being repetitive, thanks curly and Chilly too.
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The free API (product ID 82 when logging into it) auto throttles your requests so you can never exceed the limit.
The free API throttles requests but does not prevent data charges. An extreme example: 60 price requests are allowed per minute but if you use all 60 in less than one second, once per minute (which is both permissible and possible) then that could be up to 40 excess requests per minute or up to 2400 per hour. That's a few pennies! Essentially you cant get done for charges if you use the right kit. Essentially, you CAN get done for charges if you use ANY kit, entirely by accident. e.g. mis-adjust throttle settings on API software, running 2 copies of API software, running API software plus aggressive browser use, or multiple browsers/tabs, with or without browser refresh scripts. |
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Oops :(
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Lori - May i ask why you persist using the website, when there are viable, free, API products out there? Is it because you are set in your ways, do not trust the software out there? I look forward to your answer, as if I were to go back to just using the website, I know I'd struggle. It would be nice to hear a different perspective. All the best.
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The one time I tried API was betfair rapid. I didn't realise it didn't take decimal points and tried to lay 350s about a 3.5 shot - or something similar (325 possibly as it was on cricket run lines) - which could have lost my entire roll if I hadn't cancelled very fast.
Ever since then I've been wary, plus I find the website is more than adequate for most things I need. I don't have any interest in ladders and stuff, I just want to place bets. I've been convinced that I do need to use API over the last few months by many of the regulars here and intend to give it a go - especially with regards submitting orders where I'm manually updating big fields. I'm not at ease letting 3rd party software loose with my password and suchlike, but the main reason is simply being set in my ways and largely not believing that much of the stuff that is added with API is of any additional value. |
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Lori,
The the custom columns in Gruss might suit you. You pre-set stakes and prices for backs or lays. |
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Lori, can't you just temporarily put most of your funds in your AUS wallet while experimenting with different software during 'off-peak' betting time?
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Thanks Rollo, Investor.
I've actually got the all-clear to add a new account as long as I declare it for PC purposes, so I'll go that route and have a pop at some time soon :) If it works out for me I'll get the beers in sometime in the future ;) |
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You should never have all of your bank exposed.
For instance, when running a software programme, you can set a stop loss amount but the bot will still place the final bet if you are just under that amount. If you happen to be laying, with recovery staking, that last bet can take you way over your stop loss. Therefore, as Investor has said, put all of your residual bank in your Aussie wallet or, if you are working both UK and Aussie markets, put it all on a 1.01 no hoper in a long term market. |