General Betting
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13 Dec 11
18:58
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17 Jul 11
I have just joined in the open forum on the latest open forum at the LHC on the subject of the search for the
Higgs Boson.
The heading of my thread is the last comment posted before the forum thread was closed
The LHC is predicting a 5 sigma once they reach 20 inverse fb of data which will occur sometime in 2012. Stay tuned.
Now I am not expecting all of you to understand what exactly is going on here and what a Higgs Boson is but
I would love to know who does understand and how important this is to science and further more
Will betfair be running a book on if the Higgs Bosn will be declared as discovered in 2012 at a sigma 5 level of exceptance?
Personally I think its looking like a longshot.
Higgs Boson.
The heading of my thread is the last comment posted before the forum thread was closed
The LHC is predicting a 5 sigma once they reach 20 inverse fb of data which will occur sometime in 2012. Stay tuned.
Now I am not expecting all of you to understand what exactly is going on here and what a Higgs Boson is but
I would love to know who does understand and how important this is to science and further more
Will betfair be running a book on if the Higgs Bosn will be declared as discovered in 2012 at a sigma 5 level of exceptance?
Personally I think its looking like a longshot.
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The Higgs Boson has been declared the "GOD PARTICLE" by some and is the proposed missing link that would solve the mystery of gravity.
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“What the Higgs is going on?”
Show Additional Entries [Additional Entries] 12:20 - 12:52 12:52 Comment From Guest How long is this projected to last 12:52 dfish: No immediate connection to quantum computing that I know of 12:52 Comment From SayedAli_PI at Robert Paulson: I hope so 12:53 Comment From GMc "if you squint hard enough..." :-) 12:53 PI Moderator: Higgs particles are thought to be elementary, like electrons, and not composite particles, like the proton (made up of three quarks). 12:53 pioutreach: Andy Haas: Two similar events at both ATLAS and CMS show there may be a #higgs boson. #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 12:53 curelet: Brian Greene Reacts to Today’s CERN Announcement | World Science Festival http://worldsciencefestival.com/blog/brian_greene_reacts_to_todays_cern_announcement #piLIVE #in [via Twitter] 12:54 PI Moderator: The LHC experiment will run for years. This is just very preliminary data. 12:54 Comment From john proctor Isn't mass just concentrated energy? Also, if the higgs-boson is so massive, more massive than quarks, why have we been able to observe quarks and the like but not the higgs? 12:54 Comment From Young MCD Comment est-ce le particle **** est tres bleuf? 12:54 MercerRecord: Use #piLIVE to join particle physicists from Perimeter Institute right now for a talk on the recent #LHC data: http://ow.ly/7XghH [via Twitter] 12:54 Comment From wasif so how will the discovery impact physics?i mean what are the consequences? 12:54 Comment From SeahorsesFOHEVAH So we're just seeing detections AFTER it's gone..? 12:55 PI Moderator: Yes, the Higgs is very short lived. We cannot see it directly. It decays quickly into other particles (in a certain way). We see these other particles. 12:55 Comment From Bryan It would unify the standard model wasif 12:56 pioutreach: Andy Haas: We can see significant deviation from the random fluctuations we would expect in the data. #Higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 12:56 Comment From John Price I think the Higgs boson was even more tightly bound within the quarks bound state 12:56 Comment From Bala when they say "mass" are we referring to mass at speed 0? If e=mc2, then what we are saying that there a vaccuum has a non zero energy - right? 12:56 Comment From Orion Young MCD --> get serious, stop being immature 12:56 Comment From Julius Friedman What does this mean for the Neutrino theory of light? 12:56 pioutreach: "Sigma" just quantifies how often you'd expect something to happen by random chance. #higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 12:57 pioutreach: We have a backgrounder on what 'sigma' means: http://ow.ly/7Y9ij #higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 12:57 PI Moderator: Consequences? If we discover a Standard Model Higgs, we confirm existing ideas (and learn more deeply about them). If not discovered, there are other ideas that may give particles mass. The door opens to all kinds of possible new physics. That's even more exciting. 12:58 Comment From ThomR What is this '125 gv'? Is that predicted by the nature of the Higgs? 12:58 Comment From Andrew so is the higgs boson conclusive? 12:58 Comment From Robert Paulson So, can we expect 5 sigma confirmation this summer? 12:58 Comment From wasif can there be still a higgs field without a higgs particle? 12:58 QuantumIQC: The hint of the Higgs boson is around 125GeV, or if you like at energies about 1 trillion times greater that of an xray! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 12:59 pioutreach: Natalia Toro: We're waiting to see more data, and at the same time look into this data and see if it really is a #Higgs boson #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 12:59 PI Moderator: We will certainly get better data (higher sigma) in the months to come! 1:00 QuantumIQC: #Higgs result is "the beginning of the end of the beginning," says researcher at "What the Higgs is Going On" http://bit.ly/uOZUHc #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:00 Comment From Brian Tremper What is an atom? 1:00 Comment From SayedAli_PI at wasif: no, every field is quantified 1:00 Comment From Gareth andrew - no, there's a 2.3 sigma certainty. robert paulson - keep in mind 5 sigma is verry very hard to acheive... 1:00 pioutreach: Philip Schuster: Very clearly we're going to need more data to see if this is a real particle, but it is promising. #higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:00 Comment From Guest I Love physics 1:00 PI Moderator: Theory does not give a definite prediction of the Higgs mass, only ranges. We need experiment to nail it down. 1:01 pioutreach: Andy Haas: It wasn't until this morning that we saw the two sets of data line up. #higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:01 Comment From Gareth brian temper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom although if you're not sure about an atom then you'll probably get lost.... 1:02 Comment From Morgan Freeman if the higgs boson is discovered will there become ways to manipulate it or will it simply open up all of theses theories 1:02 PI Moderator: There may be a Higgs field without a Higgs particle. 1:02 LeTaq: RT @txwikinger: Listening to the Perimeter Institute's interpretations about the latest discoveries concerning the Higgs #piLIVE http:/ ... [via Twitter] 1:02 QuantumIQC: Scientific method at work: ATLAS and CMS are two independently run experiments at LHC, and they both saw the excess of events #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:02 Comment From Bala why do we think that all the particles in the standard theory are conveniently findable at the energy levels technology can achieve today? That an accelerator at a million GEv wont find anything more fundamental? 1:03 QuantumIQC: How sure are you about those results? Andy Haas: Well I am 2.3 sigma confident! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:04 lifepostepic: Am finding the #piLIVE webcast very helpful in clarifying the #Higgs data. [via Twitter] 1:04 PI Moderator: Supersymmetry suggests there may be many particles beyond the reach of present technology. 1:04 GaryM: RT @QuantumIQC: How sure are you about those results? Andy Haas: Well I am 2.3 sigma confident! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:05 Comment From Robert Paulson What's the maximum GeV the LHC can run on? 1:05 pioutreach: Philip Schuster: There are reasons to think this is different. The 1st thing is to collect more #higgs data and compare #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:05 Comment From John Price well with the proton having a rest mass of 938 MeV and its constituents(quarks) at about 12.4 MeV collectively...that is a factore of 75 times greater. If you were to speed that collection up to 0.999941c, it would have a relativistic energy of 938 MeV. So I think that the quarks are moving at 0.999941c inside a bound state to create the proton. More like a vibration frenzy! 1:05 pioutreach: RT @garym: RT @QuantumIQC: How sure are you about those results? Andy Haas: Well I am 2.3 sigma confident! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:06 Comment From SayedAli_PI Bela: as the mass of particles increase, their effect usually decrease. that is the reason. and it's a long time since the prediction of Higgs 1:06 Comment From Filip It was said that we know that the Higgs has to be lighter than 127 GeV (as presented today at the seminar). But is there a possibility that the Higgs has the mass higher than the LHC can discover at this moment? 1:06 Comment From wasif does that mean that even if we do not find higgs particle,the existing theories about how partcles gain mass would hold,since higgs field may still be present?willl this change nothing? 1:06 pioutreach: Philip Schuster: Now we want to turn the #higgs into a tool to study higher energy items. #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:07 PI Moderator: The LHC can accelerate protons to 7 TeV (7000 GeV). 1:07 lifepostepic: RT @pioutreach: Philip Schuster: Now we want to turn the #higgs into a tool to study higher energy items. #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:07 Comment From SayedAli_PI at John Prize: how can anybody see inside the proton? 1:07 Comment From Sarah Is the Higgs boson related to dark matter? 1:07 Comment From Guest inertia which mirrors the forces of gravity is only detectable when mass is accelerating or moving and has nothing to do with a field effect, higgs was wrong thus the higgs boson or its correct detection wil never appear. 1:08 PI Moderator: People can "see" inside the proton in exactly the same way the Rutherford could "see" inside the atom. We're doing the same thing at Rutherford, just at higher energy. 1:08 dfish: We "see" inside protons by shooting electrons at them and watching how they are scattered. 1:08 Comment From Ivan Bakly what are you going to do if this is not the Higgs Particle? 1:08 Comment From Guest Technicolor supersymmetry? 1:08 Comment From John Price only the colliders can give us a glimpse inside the proton 1:09 pioutreach: Now answering questions! #Higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:09 Comment From SayedAli_PI Ivan Bakly: it would be more fun, if we find this not to be the Higgs 1:09 PI Moderator: If there is no Standard Model Higgs, this opens the door to all kinds of new physics, and is very exciting. SOMETHING has to be giving the particles mass! 1:09 Comment From Guest this work is important and cant be under-estimated in importance to physics. 1:10 PI Moderator: The Higgs boson is not thought to be directly related to Dark Matter. 1:10 QuantumIQC: Expert panel now answering questions in "What the Higgs is Going On" at #piLIVE http://bit.ly/uOZUHc http://t.co/tznhOzyM [via Twitter] 1:11 dfish: The LHC is connected to Dark Matter because one of the more popular models for Dark Matter proposes that a new kind of matter might exist and the LHC might actually be able to produce them. 1:11 Comment From John Price just a thought experiment...you know when you move your fingers back and forth fast...it appears that it takes up more space....if energy is confine and vibrates(oscillates) very fast(ultra relativisticly) it would appear larger or more massive...or have mass at all 1:11 pioutreach: Haas: #Fermilab also has an excess of events in the same region as today's data release, but less statistical evidence. #Higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:11 Comment From Mark B How does Gravity fit into the Standard Model? 1:12 Comment From eric will the particle when verified be renamed? 1:12 Comment From EC What If the Higgs Boson is responsible for creating mass in other particles, how does it gain mass itself? 1:12 DirtyQTip: #Pilive can there be a Higgs field without a Higgs boson particle? [via Twitter] 1:13 dfish: The source of mass is the Higgs field. The Higgs boson would exist in this field and would therefore have mass. 1:13 Comment From Cindy Ward Is the Higgs involed in dark matter? 1:13 Comment From Guest If we knew that we would have a unified theory. 1:13 PI Moderator: Thanks Mark B, Gravity does not fit into the Standard Model. That's a big problem, outside of the Higgs issue, called "Quantum Gravity" or a "Theory of Everything" 1:13 pioutreach: Natalia Toro: This data can eliminate patches of models that oppose Standard Model, but corners still need to be explored #Higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:13 Comment From Guest Is 125 gV a now a new a cosmic number-Bpath 1:13 Comment From Guest since there can be a higgs field without a higgs particle does this mean that even if we do not find higgs boson,the existing theories about how particles gain mass would hold? 1:13 Comment From Sayed Ali_PI Mark B: It simply doesn't fit into Standard model 1:13 QuantumIQC: What if this is not the Higgs? Phillip Schuster: It would be fantastic! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:13 Comment From Filip If the results at the end exlude the Higgs even in the range 115-127 GeV, would it definitely mean that the Higgs does not exist? 1:14 Comment From Sheel What gives the Higgs boson its mass? 1:14 Comment From Kyle Gao @EC What- It would interact other higgs boson, just like gluons also interact strongly by interacting with other gluons. 1:14 Boonearang: #piLIVE great wrap up!!!!!! [via Twitter] 1:14 Comment From Thomasyoung what if...Gravitational force...IS the electromagnetic force? 1:14 Comment From Gilliand No particle possessing mass can travel faster than light, so... if the Higgs Boson is responsible for creating mass in other particles, does it mean that basically only Higgs Boson can't travel faster than light? 1:15 GaryM: RT @QuantumIQC: What if this is not the Higgs? Phillip Schuster: It would be fantastic! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:15 PI Moderator: Thanks Sheel, The Higgs itself gets its mass from the Higgs field. 1:15 Comment From john proctor What else are scientists at CERN trying to discover aside from the Higgs-Boson? 1:16 dfish: To john proctor, The LHC is also looking for Dark Matter, Supersymmetry, Matter-antimatter asymmetry, and quark-gluon plasmas (Big Bang) 1:16 Comment From NicoleC How much error have you had with recording data? 1:16 Comment From Anton If this is the Higgs, what will the possible practical applications be that will affect the average person? 1:16 Comment From Tony Horak Does this impact on any of the numerous versions of string theory? 1:16 QuantumIQC: Natalia Toro: Our degree of confidence is high, but not infinite. That's why we should keep on working. #piLive. [via Twitter] 1:16 Comment From Guest What's the predicted speed of Higgs B? 1:16 Comment From John Price I think what essentially it will boil down to that there is a fundamental energy in the fabric of spacetime 1:17 Comment From Thomasyoung What's the advantage to using linear accelerators over circular ones? 1:17 Comment From John Price that gets bound and unbound 1:17 pioutreach: Haas: If it turns out this is a fluctuation and does go away, we'll be able to disclude the #Higgs boson in a large area. #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:17 PI Moderator: The LHC was designed for many purposes, e.g., Higgs? Supersymmetry? Extra dimensions? Dark Matter? Etc... 1:17 Comment From Guest Gravity is very similar to inertia in that it is itt-self a manifistation of something that currently hides behind both conventional science and the fabric of matter. 1:18 PI Moderator: The Higgs boson, like any particle with mass, can have any speed less than light speed. 1:18 weluvlerka: Watching "What the Higgs" in class, everyone check it out! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:19 Boonearang: #piLIVE thanks great cast!!!! [via Twitter] 1:19 lifepostepic: Great discussion--thanks! #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:19 pioutreach: Thanks to all for participating! The video will be posted shortly on Perimeter Institute's website: http://ow.ly/7Ybgi #Higgs #piLIVE ^RT [via Twitter] 1:19 Comment From NicoleC I would like a answer to my question. 1:19 Comment From Bala is the higgs feild non local? 1:19 Comment From GMc Thanks! 1:19 eurostylll: Damaris and Andjela in the houseeee #piLIVE [via Twitter] 1:20 Comment From Guest it has not get been proven if gravity travels with the limit of the speed of c. 1:20 Comment From Thomasyoung Thanks for the great show, I learned a lot :D 1:20 Comment From John Price as long as it doen't go the speed of light...a mass object can approach it as close as it wants to.....so if the Higgs is very massive...on the order of 125 GeV....it would very close to the speed of light 1:20 Comment From John Price that is why it is so massive 1:20 Comment From Mohit Jain Thanks 1:20 InnovationCA: Interesting chat. Thanks to the #piLIVE team. [via Twitter] 1:20 QuantumIQC: It is a wrap up for #piLIVE. Great panel, very informational! Well done @pioutreach. IQC's blog about the whole event http://bit.ly/uOZUHc [via Twitter] 1:20 dfish: The webcast will be posted on pirsa.org in the next day or so 1:21 PI Moderator: Thanks to everyone for your great comments and questions! 1:22 dfish: Follow us on Facebook and Twitter if you have more questions (or if your question was not answered today) 1:23 frogheart: Thx. #piLIVE team for What the Higgs .. ? event [via Twitter] 1:24 Comment From mahurley This was absolutely brilliant. The Perimeter Institute has done outstanding public outreach here. Thanks. 1:24 Comment From Gilliand Thanks. Hope to have next opportunity for live disscussion soon ^^ 1:24 Comment From Guest I´m still in the woods 1:24 Comment From sunny@perimter FB and twitter @pioutreach 1:24 Comment From Guest If gravity is not a field effect then the limit oc the speed of c would not be applicable. 1:25 dfish: Check out the Public Lectures at pirsa.org 1:26 pioutreach: RT @QuantumIQC: It is a wrap up for #piLIVE. Great panel, very informational! Well done @pioutreach. IQC's blog about the whole event ht ... [via Twitter] 1:26 dfish: Signing off. Please follow us on Twitter (@pioutreach) and FB (@pioutreach). Thanks for tuning in 1:27 Comment From Kyle Gao @Guest How do you get to that conclusion from "if gravity is not a field effect" 1:28 dfish: We still have a couple of moderators willing to answer questions...please resubmit them if you are waiting for replies. 1:30 Comment From Guest Because gravity has field type effects without yet qualifying as a field effect or is the current HLC 1:31 Comment From wasif i hav asked this twice already...if ther can b a higgs field withot a higgs particle as u said,does this mean that the existing theories abot how particles gain mass would still hold? 1:33 dfish: Yes. The particles would still get their mass by interacting with the field. There are several other possibilities in the wings... 1:33 Comment From Guest *the currnt LHC experiments under the justification that gravity is a field/particle effect? 1:33 Comment From Bala If the higgs exists then "empty" space has mass/energy - right?. Has there been any work on the relation between the higgs and Einsteins cosmological constant? 1:34 dfish: There is no connection between the Higgs field and Dark Energy (at this point). 1:34 Comment From doug I missed most of the live broadcast, can the broadcast be viewed at an achieved site ? 1:34 Comment From Bala I am no expert wasif, but in my naive understanding, there is no real difference between a field and a particle in quantum physics 1:34 Comment From Kyle Gao A field is just a mathematical description of space. Like a what if senario-"What if i placed a particle in every point of space... how would this system evolve" 1:35 Comment From Guest Those current theories are absoluetly correct concerning particles gaining mass with movement but this cant then dictate that it is a field effect, no more so then the inherent qualites of all bosons posing spin or charge hold an indication to a link to a higher level observation classing type. 1:37 dfish: Particles gain mass from the Higgs field because there is energy in the interaction with the field. This energy manifests itself as mass when you try to accelerate the particle. 1:37 Comment From Balganesh So U mean to say , a particle gains mass in the presence of field by interacting with that, not necessary for the existence of the particles ., 1:37 Comment From Guest you cant use the same theories to expalin all levels of all dimesional activity. 1:39 Comment From Guest at some poit you have to cross a river without a bridge. 1:40 Comment From Kyle Gao We'll I think it's just 2 ways of describing the same thing, interacting with the field, or interacting with the particles mediating the field, just like you can describe the electromagnetic interaction by describing the electromagnetic field, or exchange of virtual photons. 1:41 Comment From Guest all fields have a particle, but not all things are particles, correct me if I am wrong? 1:42 Comment From Guest what kind of information about the higgs field can actually be gotten from the LHC? or is it only information about higgs particles? 1:43 dfish: Each field in the Standard Model has a particle associated with it. The way we understand particles in quantum field theory is that they are excitations of the field. 1:44 dfish: The LHC is looking for the Higgs boson because it is the easiest way to confirm the existence of the Higgs field. 1:44 Comment From Bala what governs the strength of the higgs field at a point in spacetime? 1:44 Comment From Guest Sometime to discover more and progress you have to move all you do know and have learned to one side. 1:44 Comment From Guest but gravity and inertai do not fit in, so does that not tell you something? 1:44 Comment From Balganesh So in here the experiments in LHC.., do they infer the presence of the field or the particle.,., ?? if going by ur statement upon a field may exist without the particle.., 1:45 dfish: We do not know why the Higgs field couples to some particles stronger than others. Let's start by finding the field first then we can try to understand how it behaves... 1:48 dfish: The LHC is looking for the particle associated with the Higgs field. The mass of the boson will indicate something about the nature of the field. 1:49 Comment From Garyoptica We must arrive at a point where we admit that Gravity although effecting all other particles is not itself a member of the class of particles and requires a different approach to discover its source and foundation. 1:49 Comment From Balganesh ohkay.,., by the goin along the year long run, getting a 1.9 and 2.3 sigma at 13 GeV., how long can we expect it to take to obtain a 5 or greater sigma .., as the run goes on and final run bein scheduled at the end of 2012., 1:50 dfish: The LHC is predicting a 5 sigma once they reach 20 inverse fb of data which will occur sometime in 2012. Stay tuned. 1:51 dfish: Time to go. Thanks for joining in on the discussion. Keep asking questions and follow us on Twitter and Facebook (@pioutreach) |
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This was the official open forum on the release of the data results findings
a 1.9 and 2.3 sigma at 13 GeV. This means they are way off schedule and 1.9-2.3 Sigma is not even close to 5 sigma(1 in 1,000,000 chance that the data is wrong) |
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Hi, does the only purpose of this thread is to show to everybody how big is your brain or is it by any chance related to SPORTS BETTING ?
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sounds suspiciously Ferengian to me.
Does it wear a stripey blazer? |
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There is a relationship between this thread and everything to do with betting and that is the likelyhood that any data that points to a prediction is correct.
In modern science a new discovery has to have a 5 Sigma rating meaning the data has to have only a 1 in a million chance of being incorrect. Of course there is no such thing in betfair as 1,000,000 to 1 chance so we wont see a market as the odds will be too staggering but the current 1.9-2.3 sigma is much lower. Its just interesting that even science now relies on odds  |
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The Large Hydron colider has been in the news alot, dont know if you all remember the worries that it would blow the earth up and its cost 6 billion to create.
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oh ok i understand why i coudn't find the market anywhere on Betfair
I like the LHC, i find all this stuff quite fascinating, but to be honest i don't understand anything to what they are doing there. They have all my support though. |
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It reminds me the short story "Experiment" by Fredric Brown.
You can read it there : http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29948/29948-h/29948-h.htm |
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If any of this bears the slightest relation to sports betting then there is no hope for any of us, who do not have an astro physicist as a close adviser.
As such I declare it a non event not worthy of being posted of a forum of high intellectual calibre such as the gbf. |
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Basically the reason Higgs proposed the Higgs boson is that when making observations of the masses
of quarks which are the building blocks of all matter, the sum of the mass of the quarks is no where near the mass of the combination of quarks in any sub-atomic particle. So where is all the missing mass which is a fundemental measutment unit of all matter? Higgs proposed that the quarks gain their mass when moving through a field and because all fields have to have an component particle, this proposed missing particle must be found, and since then this particle is code named the "higgs particle" The only huge problem is that no-one has discovered or proved its existance yet, the LHC can work at greater energy levels and its hoped that this will enable its discovery to be reached, 2 recent reseach sites have each failed to prove its discovery. |
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Personally I think they are "barking up the wrong tree"
I prefer to think of both gravity and inertia as non field/particle sources and rather the interation of matter and space-time combined. String theory and duracks equation tell us that their is alot more going on in any amount of empty space then could ever of previously been imagined. look at newtons famous example of the apple falling towards the earth, also the earth is falling towards the apple but at a much lesser rate bur what is really going on? As an observer its quite clear that the distance between the apple and earth shortens in free space-time and this is the largest observation, the rates are just an equation! Could it be that all normal space time is expanding and the quarks having used up a constituent of space-time to gain there mass have caused a warping of space time via having a close proximity to each other. You decide! |
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astro-physics, quantum theorists and string therists wont ever have a unified theory unless they discover more about empty space and its frame work(space-time), its probably a case that
"they cant see the sky for the trees" |
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Hate to say it bff, but I think you're just talking to yourself on this matter.
Wrong time, wrong place, wrong people. Apart from that, fascinating. I won't sleep for days now. |
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Quite correct FAFH this thread is out of place in content but has a common theme that transcends all
Information studies, the power to theorize and you don't need 6 billion pound facilities to work on theories, just your own mind and I wish all betfair practical success with any theories they develop and use in the quest for profit in 2012  |
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typo * betfair customers and betfair practical success
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