Betfair punter is threatening legal action

betfair to pay back and £25 free bet as compensation for the inconvenience caused

money returned, accounts closed, banned in perpetuity NAP

I have done some research and according to sources this chaps account is directly related to the other accounts and so I would be amazed if the customer even went to court let alone hoped to get his money back that he hoped to avoid paying as premium charge, betfair do have a very good fraud team so they wouldn't take action unless is was justified and legal.

bff you must be sh11t hot on research, that took you all of 41 minutes to figure out what a legal advisor may have charged a fortune for.
Now go and spend the whole night looking for the winner of the first race and let us all know in time to raid our banks [smiley:crazy]
What source would that be
I am beginning to think you may be a security risk as well as a twaat

How rude of you red68, your amazement at your perception of my speed to answer is based on your own
deluded conditions,
for one thing its a story thats a few days old and in many online newspapers and not 41 minutes old,

secondly if checked the online sources you will note that betfair when asked, have
confirmed that there information is very solid that this chap is using many accounts, all linked,

and last of all how would I be a security risk to you?

Because I check things out before passing judgment, perhaps your own mis-guided mouth is your own
personal security risk, so if you cant walk the walk don't try doing the talking, lamer

Yahoo finacing friday 21st(not 41 minutes ago dodo)

A Betfair spokesman said: "We thoroughly investigated this matter and we determined that the customer was evading payment of the required fees." He added that Betfair's legal department was happy to "discuss it with him further".

In that case tell me why this guys accounts are related to other accounts as you say you have knowledge of and spit out in public domain.
You know F   all or to much.

What you mean is lets assume betfair are stupid and happily blame anyone for something without fair judgment or eveidence, I think we are all getting fed up of the betfair bashing thats on here all the time, give them some credit, they certainly are a more educated crew than the likes of you red68, thats a dead cert.

I guess alot depends on Betfairs interpretation of "thorough", but obviously for bff their word is good enough for him

Why change your post.Why can one suddenly appear before a post of my own(posted earlier)

Oh dear Charles Darwin was so right, get a bit of mud or slime and all manner of organism ferments. well I cant elevate you on this matter so I will leave you both to wallow in the mud.

When i went to school bbf you got o grades
When i served my time i got blisters
When i came across you i got pissed off.

Frosts words   Did he have any enemys
Morse          Was he well liked
Taggart        i.d sort the prick myself

soft ****

Dont imagine that high i.q.s are soft targets, they reckon somewhere along the line its the brainy
folk that replaced you lot, shame the job wasn't finished red68

Darwin
och i best go to ma kip afor ye pit me in a trance wee a that intell jargin
Dinna bide up a naght as naebdy else is pissed enough to spick ta ye

Celtic or rangers?

See 'another negative story' as this topic has already been discussed.It's a shame so many threads now degenerate into abusive comments between bff and just about everyone else.It really has become rather tedious-just ignore him,it's not worth the hassle.

+1

well if you cant stand the debating heat, post elsewhere

some of you are only happy if your betfair bashing or picking on a poster, get a life.

buzzer
24 Sep 11 18:02
Joined:
05 Jun 04
| Topic/replies: 13,813 | Blogger: buzzer's blog
There is a big can of worms about to open with this.
You, as a winner on betfair, could show a friend/family member how you operate and they could bet as you do but on their own and with their own money yet betfair are saying the accounts are linked and liable to PC when in fact betfair are stealing the money and the only 'evidence' they produce are similarities in betting patterns!
We shall see what happens when a court looks at their operations because, through their terms and conditions, they seem to think they can get away with anything.


I put these up the other day and yes it is that simple

Ooooops missed this off

buzzer
24 Sep 11 18:18
Joined:
05 Jun 04
| Topic/replies: 13,813 | Blogger: buzzer's blog
A customer will agree to their terms and conditions but they will feel aggrieved, ever so slightly, if they win in a similar manner to a previous winner but betfair empty their account.
The crazy thing is betfair encourage, and indeed run, courses showing people how to trade on their platform yet if someone bets/trades in a similar manner to a previous proven winner they'll rape their account of all its money. Bring on the court cases because their terma and conditions will not stand up in a court of law Laugh



Your honour, betfair run courses to show people how to win.
Is this correct?
Yes
And when they win do you take all the money out of their accounts because they win in the same/a similar way to the registered trainer?
........................Yes your honour Laugh

Well having more than one account is not the problem, acquiring profits that will be need to be charged according to the new system on multiply linked accounts is the problem, there is little about this in terms and conditions as there is little help on the new charges full stop, so there may be a fight on in court as I am not sure how multiple accounts are represented in t& c , anyone now if this matter was addressed post pc1 ?

*Know not now, I confess to being slightly illiterate.

the point is being able to prove someone has multiple accounts - nigh on impossible i feel

not good enough to say same betting patterns, nor that the people are related, nor that they operate from same IP address, nor from same physical address as, in theory, it is possible that given the above, 2 or more people cold be operating separate accounts.

you beat me to it buzzer 

you can have all the t and c you like but if it goes to court and makes a case you are then reliant on jury/judge if it is seen as being unfair etc etc
and this applies to anything
so companies that post up signs or put t and c in their blurb saying they are not accountable are sometimes accountable.

i could be that this develops into a test case or it may be that it never makes it too court, who knows

The biggest problem is that the client will probably not go too court because isn't using multiple accounts to evade paying charges classed as fraud?

Surely those charges would have to be considered legally binding in order for any fraud to have been committed BFF

From the charges page...

Accounts that relate to one person, entity, API subscription or a Master Account with related Sub- accounts (Trading version only) are treated as one customer for the purposes of calculating Premium Charges.

I supposed the key question is what is an 'entity'?

Can a winning punter's wife open an account on Betfair and start from scratch on the £250k or is she the same 'entity' as her husband?

Well considering the pc is equivalent to tax, perhaps if your married its a different tax code so its the same account effectively, will we see the first couples living over the broom to escape a high gambling charge  [;)]

my mates Italian on his best mates, dads side, we he be liable for his tax?[;)]

Now that this thread is getting constructive, watch someone post in and sabotage it, some very good points being put forward, very interesting debate.

It is an important topic but why you feel the need to write post after post to yourself I dont know.

I thought someone already had [;)]

How long has the part of your brain been in hibernation that debates and challenges, possibly its probable that a lot of posters have missed some form of evolutionary step forward for an a glaciation period or two, can you count beans and draw bison with charcoal, me thinks not

As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) Gibraltar law applies if one is in the UK, except if the event is in Australia or New Zealand, in which case it is Tasmanian law, or if the bet is a multiple in which case it is Maltese law, except if one of the legs of a multiple is in Australia or New Zealand in which case it is Tasmanian law for that leg.
So will this customer bring the legal case in Gibraltar or can the English courts choose to apply Gibraltar law?

If it ever goes to court I will be a monkeys uncle.

bff how much do you get paid for working for betfair?

Around 6 million a day, comes out the pc2 money, kaching kaching

Accounts that relate to one person, entity, API subscription or a Master Account with related Sub- accounts (Trading version only) are treated as one customer for the purposes of calculating Premium Charges.

I supposed the key question is what is an 'entity'?

Can a winning punter's wife open an account on Betfair and start from scratch on the £250k or is she the same 'entity' as her husband?

Frog,

You're right. This is really the pivotal definition for the case. Presumably, what Betfair had in mind when they used the term 'entity' here was some sort of association of account holders (like a syndicate). The problem they face, is that unless such an association is bound together legally by a business contract, for instance, an 'entity' in this sense, is hopelessly vague.

Whats your favorite chuppa chumps lolly pop, just trying to raise the quality of the thread.

If any of you had half a brain you would realize that if betfair fails to receive its premium charge because of avoidance, that the charge may not just go up, winners may get the same fate as they do when winning at the bookmakers, so this guy should cough his money up and be made an example if trying to fiddle betfair with multiple accounts.

I would have thought a lot of customers have co-developed betting strategies over the years with other account holders. Alot of strategies have been written about and taught on courses. If a £250k plus person decided to run a course and people learnt and adapted his strategies would they all be bound as the same entity?

Maybe Betfair would be better off removing the £250k threshold to stop all this. Would save them in having to have an investigation team to police it.

So in effect you would do away with the threshold and all winners would have to pay and no 250,000 safety barrier to protect punters learning or if just having a good run, doesn't sound as fair to me, why should the pc change just because some are greedy and want to avoid paying it?

If this chap owes 52,000 since July because of cheating the system, then he must of grossed 100k since then so I cant feel sorry for someone on that sort of rake and befair wont give up the money without a fight, rules are rules.

frog2 you said

"Maybe Betfair would be better off removing the £250k threshold to stop all this. Would save them in having to have an investigation team to police it."

I do believe that Betfair have got themselves in a tangle with the latest PC change.  Surely the ideal way of charging customers is to involve as litte policing and as little need for avoidance as possible.

The basic PC (20%) is based on anyone in profit (with a £1,000 lifetime allowance) whose commision generated is less than 20%.  This is straight forward and provides a much reduced incentive for avoidance.

I would say that the original PC was even better in that it was based on the previous 60 weeks and had virtually no need to look for avoidance.

Ideally (imo) all charges should be made when each market is settled.  How they do this fairly to ensure all customers pay an appropriate amount I am not sure.

The original PC may have been a good short term fix, but imo its not a long term solution.

By repeatedly adapting the PC, Betfair will be getting themselves, and their customers, into more and more of a tangle.

You're right. This is really the pivotal definition for the case.

---------

if BF try to argue that an entity is whatever they at their own discretion decide is an entity on a case by case basis, they have very little chance of winning imo.

If this chap owes 52,000 since July because of cheating the system, then he must of grossed 100k since then .......................................................

incorrect...probably dates back to way before July.  This is account number 4 allegedly.  I suspect he was allegedly avoiding PC2 beforehand with accounts 2 and 3.

I think the limit of 250k was to net the real big hitters who earn that in up to a year fwiw as a deterrent from opening new accounts, rather than the majority of people who are affected by PC3.

Betfair's problems arise from the fact that they're ashamed of their pricing and they're hoping it doesn't become general knowledge. They'll know all about it when the tax man decides he wants a slice of the action.

All this fighting over the winnings from losing customers reminds me of what happens when a zebra drops its clogs in Africa and around 100 vultures, hyenas, lions, jackals and fox gather round to scrap over the winnings, down boy, form an orderly queue , grrrr[;)]