What percentage of Betfair customers were net winners last year?

Ask betfair as they know all about who has won what and how much there entitled too keep by the grace of the commanders in the tower.

CLYDEBANK if I recall correctly in the latest conference call (quarterly report) either morano or yu said there were 200,000 "net winners".

They didnt clarify what a net winner was, but taking PC2/3 speak I would say it was "excluding commission", i.e. gross wins minus loses

I cant recall if they said that the number of users was in respect of last year, this year, or if it was current users. I certainly don't recall "lifetime users" being mentioned.

You can listen to the conference call and check the facts.

Hazel, if a net winner is someone who's winning "excluding commission" then most of them will be losing after commission, i'e a recreational punter may win 10k over a year and only lose 9.6k, and be classed as a winner even though he's losing.

Any fool can break level excluding commission, so if BF said there were 200,000 net winners then your definition is probably correct :)
Wouldn't just over half of BF accounts show a slight profit and just under half a slight loss without commission?

I think Clydebank means how may winners were there after commission was deducted, which I would guess at less than 1%.

net=after all deductions

=2% pf all active betfiar customers

That's what net should mean Acquiesce, I suspect it doesn't in the case above (and I've never believed the 2% figure).

Trevh is right, net is post commission and premium charges.

Of the 2% estimate, 1.80% are winning a yearly pittance and .20% are making obscene amounts of money.

Well, the only thing gross profit can mean is profit before charges so net must mean after charges.  I suspect they just mean gross - commission as pc will virtually never make a winning account into a losing one and there must be a negligible number of losers who pay data/transaction costs.

Sorry, to correct my earlier comment, having read Betfair term and conditions, it should be:

"***By ‘net profits’ we mean the amounts won less the amounts lost, on all Betfair markets, less all commission paid and Premium Charges debited."

BTO, I've sent you a PM mate.  If you get a chance to reply it'd be most appreciated!  Cheers.

of people who placed one bet or more I'd guess 15% were net winners on the year.

Apparently its over 52.5%...hazel really stole my thunder but here goes...

To quote the chairman in the Q1 FY12 IMS Analyst Conference Call

"and, in fact, in stark contrast to any of our competitors, over 200,000 of our customers were net winners last year"

and according to reports from the AGM this week active customers are "down 19% to 381,000"

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somehow I doubt it myself

be careful posting on my threads Richard LL....we have the same joining date so we might get linked for PC3 purposes

I'd guess about 20%

My guess is that roughly 15 % of active customers make a profit over a one year period.
  My definition of  an active customer would be one that on average places at least one bet weekly.

CLYDEBANK its amazing isn't it.  I suspect that there is some mistruth or misleading information given out from time to time.  They are very good at spin.

Yes I would say it's definitely misleading.
Like their 20% better odds and the matched amounts.

Betfair speak...

Nett equals gross
Matched equals twice matched amount
20% equals 10%
etc etc.

I was thinking it was a possible typo and the real figure was "over 20,000"

He would have corrected himself, surely, but after all what is a zero, its nothing really [;)]

CLYDEBANK and hazel. That 381 k active customers was for that quarter only. I think Betfair reported more than one million active customers in their last yearly report. So 200 k winners would be closer to 20 %.

over 52.5% seems much too high for gross winners even if you assume "net is gross" but net is net in any language and I don't think Betfair would be misleading like that. I reckon gross winners are probably nearer 25-35%.

I think it's just a mistake.  My point is that, that sort of mistake should be glaringly obvious to the chairman of the company and the people who prepared the speech/presentation.  You should just instinctively know it can't be right.

thanks for that eddie, that could be the explanation. I would guess that sounds reasonable.

ah ok..cheers eddie....sounds feasible then if there were over 1 million active customers annually and only 381,000 active customers in the quarter it means that the vast majority of "active" customers are not very active at all which in turn would mean a higher proportion of net winners.

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Over 1 million customers active annually yet only 381,000 of them were active in the quarter.  I'd have never of thought that like

there are easily more winning registered customers than losers on here imo

think of all the thousands who just take the free bonus and run

then you have all the penny pinchers ,who make maybe a tenner a week to supplement their giro cheque.


just a few thousand heavy losers will take care of that bunch  imo

if we were linked for PC3 purposes, it would probably save you a fortune CB, I think 10/01/02 is a default date for ex flutter users they acquired

Hardly a fortune unfortunately

i won 1.17 pounds on rugby this morning  does this help
how embarrassing is that!!

careful if you make a profit and don't pay pc3 you may be viewed as a secret agent[;)]

yet another big bet missed out on by seconds  grrrrrrrrrr!!

I am grappling with the true figure! All I know is its the exactly same amount as use the forum.