Butt Raped By Tax

Are you sure you haven't just left a broom at a funny angle next to the bed?

cat flap seen your pm

Unless I'm wrong, you choose to pay all of those apart from Council Tax.

I used to pay around 8k a year in petrol tax alone.

Lori, can you put up a list of things to spend money on that doesn't involve it being taxed either directly payable by you or the receiver of the money? :)

I calculated years ago my total taxation for a year, I can't remember the exact percentage but it was something like 75% of my income went to the treasury in one way or another.

lot less convenient if you had to take own bins to dump, tarmac own roads, light your own streets etc, aswell as going without police, health and fire brigade in your hour of need....but i'm sure you'd cope

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/7854289/How-to-make-your-shopping-list-VAT-free.html

That's a reasonable article (Googled, not one I previously knew).

Ah, see what you mean about the reciever of the money - if you're saying they may pass on the price then that's likely of course.

In terms of taxing ME though, it's my choice to pay VAT. (I choose to by the way - just making the point it's optional)

we are not paying enough tax. Government is in debt and got no surplus money.

That's because they are irresponsible

It not the tax take that annoys me - It's the waste and inefficiency of the public sector spending it that bugs me.

The more tax we give the government, the more stupidly they'll spend it. Government ministers will adore anyone who thinks like u25k.

UK energy bills are set to rise by up to 25% under the guise of increased wholesale costs (actually huge so called carbon permits are the reason) which will hit households very hard.

The infuriating part is that this extra taxation amounting to a colossal sum of money will be absolutely and totally wasted on so called carbon capture and storage research and development which our government is funding. A bigger more pointless waste of our money you will be hard pushed to find.

I was expecting another thread about the Premium Charge , although it equates to the same thing in my book.

And it'll increase costs for our businesses, making them less efficient.  At a time when you'd think we'd be trying to steer clear of any unnecessary expenditure, we choose to shoot ourselves in the head with a huge increase in energy costs, just to fuel renewable energy sources which won't be cost-effective (if ever) for several decades yet.

We can't go on burning oil forever.  What do you think is going to happen to the price of oil as it begins to run out?

Well there is a lot of truth to that Cat. Even with the various shale gas discoveries, we're going to need an alternative a few decades into the future if we're to see the cost of oil or an oil-replacement falling drastically. Even if somebody doesn't agree with climate change being a problem, oil shortages and the resulting price increases (most of the big oil wells are still half full, but the oil that's left is mostly tricky to extract) most certainly are.

However, the speed with which we're moving to renewables is ridiculous. We have a raft of very strict requirements coming in for 2020, which will require us to move across to alternative sources very quickly. But the renewables will be nowhere near ready for mass consumption by then. They'll still be wildly inefficient and it's going to cost huge amounts to satisfy our energy requirements. Our competitors won't be doing this. Even the Germans won't be subjecting themselves to anything like the same rules.

If we were talking about investing a little money each year and looking at starting to bring renewables in from around 2030, that might make sense. However, 2020 is way too early for the mass wheeling out of alternative fuel sources that's planned. I don't know why Britain wants to cripple itself economically compared with its rivals?

I can't dispute any of that LordB but If you take off the financial goggles, renewable energy is clearly a top priority for the human race.

Wind and solar power is hopelessly inefficient as you say LordBobbin, and has to be constantly backed up by coal power, our main energy source. Solar farms have been so heavily subsidised that the government has now slashed the amount paid to their owners for energy supplied to the grid by more than 75%. But it's too late to stop the greedy fat cats that saw the loophole from being paid 75% too much for the pittance of energy they will contribute.

If we believe what non government funded scientists are predicting then we're in for some very very hard winters ahead as the Sun enters a deep solar minimum, and of course windmills and solar Panels will be next to useless as people freeze to death in the likes of the Maunder and Dalton minimums of previous centuries.

Wasting money on windmills isn't the future, Cat, Fusion research is. Windmills will just line the pockets of greedy 'entrepreneurs' jumping on the gravy train.

Nothing new here..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261389/SamCams-father-exploits-Labours-green-subsidy-wind-farm-nets-3-5m-year.html

they knew.

Trevh - your 75% tax is similar to what I calculated many years ago. It sounds amazingly high but its true for anyone for an middle-average job.
Of course if you happen to be on benefits its zero - in fact mathematically its negative as you are a net gainer. But actually that's part of the reason its 75%. If you look at economic theory,its possible to consider dropping tax rates very low to stimulate growth. But no western government has ever done this. Strange really because if they think people are going to work hard to gross eg £80k pa and then give £50k+ away in various taxes they need an urgent rethink. Its a funny old world. Think of it like this - if you put 5 stone ow on a horse it won't win anything = the  UK. But look on the bright side Greece = dead horse and they are still flogging it!

maybe if we stop sending millions to places like india who can afford a space program and nukes but still need handouts

Wind and solar power is hopelessly inefficient as you say LordBobbin, and has to be constantly backed up by coal power, our main energy source. Solar farms have been so heavily subsidised that the government has now slashed the amount paid to their owners for energy supplied to the grid by more than 75%. But it's too late to stop the greedy fat cats that saw the loophole from being paid 75% too much for the pittance of energy they will contribute. ..................................................

Most of the money paid to Solar Farmers and Wind Farmers will find its way back into the system, through the spending of the recipients (as long as they are UK citizens).  It's just a redistribution of monies and it results in extra energy.

Maybe so Cat, but the next few years is not going to be a good time in which to be unnecessarily increasing the financial pressures on businesses and families. Maybe in a decade or so it would make sense, but the next few years are going to be very difficult for us no matter what happens in the Eurozone/US.

Clydebank, many of those people **** currently taking advantage of solar and (in particular) wind are the land-rich (many of them farmers). In many cases it'll be quite a long time before we see much of their money going back into the system. Personally I'd prefer it if, for the time being, that money stayed with small businesses and normal (ie, not land rich) families.

maybe if we stop sending millions to places like india who can afford a space program and nukes but still need handouts

Maybe if British businesses were made to pay their Indian slave labour real wages there'd be no need for the government to "donate" a feeble fraction of the taxes they make from these businesses and their goods back to the people who really made them the money in the first place.

the idea of tax is to recycle money surely ? - if money wasn't recycled we'd all be doomed ,people hoarding money isn't good