General Betting
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I paid 3 k in charges over last 4 weeks. Today i lose 5k... do i get a refund??? Hell no. Disgraceful. Should refund you if you lose.
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Can you put some figures to that layer1982?
I think I sympathise with your situation, but it depends on your long term profits doesn't it? What was your gross profit over the last 4 weeks? How much comm did you pay? I.e, 30k GP, 3k comm, so stung for 3k PC? In which case you'd still be 19k up? |
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Since new Premium charge came into force: All i know is my net profit is £1437.92 but Premium Charges paid= £2546.34. Remember I put in all the hours put in all the effort, and Betfair take home more than me at the end of that... EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED! This is why everyone warned against playing on here now and I thought nah won't be like that. It's EXACTLY like that.
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They should at least refund the charges once you get to a situation where you would still be at 40% if they removed it, as is the case with me now.
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yes i should not have said charges in fisrt post. It was Premium Charges I meant.
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Layer 1982, it is very frustrating paying these charges and it can effect your mindset. Is there any way you can move your work to another platform?
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Wow you should listen to yourself, you get to use the biggest winning betting platform around and expect a fiscal reward for weeks you cant manage to make a profit, do you want betfair to send you a
condolence card every week as well when you cant make a huge wad, what would you like put in it? Perhaps there is a lot of delusion amongst the many bettors at betfair, or the ones that cry so much anyway.  |
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They said they couldn't give rebates because it would invite pc evasion. I gave them a perfectly viable and easy implemented means of doing so that wasn't open to evasion but they just don't give a fk.
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"Wow you should listen to yourself, you get to use the biggest winning betting platform around and expect a fiscal reward for weeks you cant manage to make a profit,"
He doesn't say that at all. A rebate is not a reward, it would be recognition that gambling is a volatile activity. Variance has absolutely no memory and doesn't care in what order you win funds. If Betfair are so confident that these people are long term winners, why are they making this charge over such a short time frame? Because if someone does crash and burn from profitability, they do it in a way that makes Betfair the most money of course. It's similar to governmental confidence in graduates to get the highest paid jobs that they are required to start paying back loans as soon as they reach a mere half of the national average wage. I noticed you also disappeared sharpish at the weekend when people started tearing that corporate piece of fluff apart regarding the safety of funds. |
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Exactly, if they are so sure I will back rebate me and then I will end up paying it pack. Instead I am very unsure of my tactics now and am thinkin it's not gna be worth it. £1400 for 5 weeks work, no thanks buddy I can make much more doing sonething else. If that's what betfair wanted, they may get it.
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And I am trying to move my activities as much as I can don't you worry. If there is no loyalty from one side there will def be no loyalty from mines, when cruch time comes.
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I'm not opposed to the pc but I don't get why they don't have some kind of rebate system.
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Feck, it's also the case that many smaller winners that grow will naturally start to pay a higher % of comm in charges. Betfair would lose money refunding these customers.
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catfloppo betfair do have rebate system.
layer1982 is wrong. by lose 5k now, that mean that next time betfair want premium charge moneys, layer1982 won't have to pay his next 3k of premium charge payment. |
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I don't get that Investor???
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pc1 was bad - but betfair fix big problem with pc1 when they make pc2. with pc2 they say it is assume pc2 has always been paid on the account. that mean that with pc1 you win one week you pay pc, lose next you get no rebate, week 3 you win you pay pc. this is mean and not fair. with pc2 you win week one you pay pc2, you lose next week you get no rebate, you win week 3 you don't pay pc2 unless winnings is more than 60% of your loss in week 2. you never pay pc2 again until you have made moneys back, and at high win rate too. is much more sensible and fairer, and that is why layer1982 is wrong.
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What if you 'don't win back?'
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I mean that's the case for me. When I had a small balance, I would limit myself to only extremely high value opportunities. As my balance grew, I started to take more and more advantage of more marginal profit making opportunities.
Due to this my activity used to fall firmly in PC1 territory, but is now more or less on the borderline. Going from paying 10% of GP in comm to 25% of GP in comm, and winning along the way, is the same as a regular 10% of GP comm payer suffering an exceptionally large loss taking him to 25% of GP in comm, as in both would be rebated even though the first customer hasn't lost. |
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"What if you 'don't win back?' " - pc2 is for long term winner in very fast trend. if you never win back at superfast rate, you never pay pc2 ever again.
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Why should the sequence matter Investor? If you've paid beyond the pc% it's counted towards future pc's so you do get a rebate if you pay future pc's. My idea was that rebates due could be offset against any future charges (i.e. pc or normal commission) so nobody would suddenly be paid a sizeable rebate due to a sudden massive "loss".
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ballabriggs, what ICS means is "what if you don't ever pay pc again" e.g. suppose you do your b0llox. PC with no rebates is a disincentive to increase stakes and is most likely to hit gamblers unjustly. They don't assume losers will always lose so why do they assume winners will always win.
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feckneejit, pc2 does in effect operate with rebate system. it is not intuitive, but it is how it work.
you can argues that if you become big loser suddenly, and your edge has gone but you still bet bigs, then would maybe be fair to have refund. but reality is pc2 payer are big fast winner, layer1982 has won over £250,000, and win/lose of £1000 to £5000 are not big sums. he will not have to pay pc2 next time he win because he has lose this week. that is much fairer than pc1, which was nasty. some peoples would have had to pay pc1 next time they win. any peoples who are losers should be looked after by bets companies. if betfair does not, they have bad management. |
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I know how it works ballabriggs but betfair should not assume winners will always be winners when there is an easy solution to the problem.
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have you write your solution on here? would be interesting to see
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Feck N. Eejit
Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 Add contact | Send message When: 18 Aug 11 15:49 Joined: Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 4,771 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog Why should the sequence matter Investor? If you've paid beyond the pc% it's counted towards future pc's so you do get a rebate if you pay future pc's. My idea was that rebates due could be offset against any future charges (i.e. pc or normal commission) so nobody would suddenly be paid a sizeable rebate due to a sudden massive "loss". The sequence doesn't matter, that's what I meant. I was just pointing out the different ways to reach the same situation. If the system was in place, I would be getting rebates right now as I'm well above 20%. |
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"The sequence doesn't matter, that's what I meant. I was just pointing out the different ways to reach the same situation. If the system was in place, I would be getting rebates right now as I'm well above 20%. "
If you are above 20%, you are still below 100% ? So you are still winning? So why would you be getting a rebate? |
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Sorry Investor, for some reason I got the impression you were saying people in that position weren't deserving of one.
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ballabriggs, I brought my 'Premium charge rebates' thread to the top for you.
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lost another 3k today... weak mind for me, ive paid the price. Can I blame Betfair at all?? I think so...
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still a rebate i think not. This is exactly the situation where a rebate should be present. I have now lost over the last 5 weeks somit like 1500 quid. Yet I have paid Betfair £2500 quid in Premium charges. Explain how this is Betting FAIRLY?? IT'S NOT!!!
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I'M FUMIN BY THE WAY....
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I'm in chase mode now :(
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Layer, stop getting so steamed about the Premium Charge! It's unfair, but there's no point letting unfairness drive you to the wall. Take a break and think very carefully about the next bet you make.
Betfair aren't going to give a stuff if you lose your money through chasing in anger, but you most certainly will! |
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layer , fk the chase mode mate
bet u didn't make prem chg status by chasing dont let it get to you . bad frame of mind, anger lead to dark side , losses step back , breathe , in an instance things are taken away from us in this life see what else you can do. intelligent enough , you will find a route |
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layer, I would bet that if purple can't accomadate all of your action, they most certainly could accomadate a good portion of it.
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put toys back in pram layer1982. i not believe you win almost every bet yet cannot see why you are wrong on this.
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To be honest I cant comment on a rebate system as I have no right with me not paying pc or even betting, I don't even understand the pc2 completely and it appears not to be too clear in the T&c as to the correct definable mechanisms for working it out, something about implied commission isnt mentioned on losses but I have been told by posters that this is part of it, its as clear as mud to me
and again, apologies on my behalf for being pc2 dumb and ignorant at times. |
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The only chance most of us have of even understanding the pc2 mechanism is by listening to others who pay it, again its left to the customers to help each other as its not done properly by the company, now if I were a BF staff member I wouldn't state the truth about them would I?
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As long as you're still going to be a long term winner it won't matter as ballabriggs pointed out. You just won't have to pay it on future winning weeks until you get to par.
What is unfair as that all PC payers will have to quit at our peaks and that's one of life's certainties that we will all quit at some point in the future. |
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Quite true massive and the old saying still holds true, quit while your ahead as we all have to quit at some point in future, interesting though why there are no working examples of the pc2 effect on profits in the t&c as there is for pc1?
Betfair should make the charge more transparent in its understanding instead of making it look like a dark charge |