TRADING QUESTION

Might be worth emailing betfair.

Usually this is tagged as a "rapid pay market" (or whatever words they use to mean rapid pay, can't remember at the moment), however at the moment it isn't.

Yeah i thought i read something somewhere a while back about rapid pay markets, think it was on the forum somewhere. I never gave it much attention as i rarely trade. I need to know before i start as im devising my staking strategy. I might e-mail them.

Thats a good question. I was thinking that man utd are underpriced and will undoubtably drift. Arsenal are also likely to drift and Man city could lenghten dramatically. all worth laying.

I also think Wigans price to be relegated will shorten dramatically.

Chelsea look to have the easiest looking first three fixtures.

i agree on wigan - they were poor last season and have lost nzogbia and also cleverley which people seem to have forgotten about

Plain Lazy
Let us hear the answer if and when you get it.
I would have thought that in a very long term market like that one , where you can always change and modify your trading position substantially materially over time, that no profits would be regarded as actually realised till the mkt actually closes.
Will be interesting to know if that is not the case.

What is an Express Payout market?
This means that if you have placed a combination of bets in an Express Payout market that guarantees you a profit − no matter who wins − or have placed a "lay" bet on a runner that can no longer win, then your "available to bet" balance will be increased by the lowest possible profit (after a deduction for retained commission) that you can obtain from that particular market.

Express Payout frees up the money you have tied up in a long-running market and allows you to use this money to bet on other Betfair markets.

Express Payout operates in markets which have a long duration such as outright winner markets on tournaments or leagues. Examples of such markets would be Premier League Winners, Wimbledon Winners and RBS 6 Nations Winners. Please note that Express Payout will not be available on any Horse Racing markets, including Antepost.

Definitely worth an email, I'm sure it was like it the last two years (Superbowl was for at least one of those too, and it's not currently)

The key point thus Plain lazy would appear to be if the entity you have bet on and then layed off can actually no longer win.
This would indicate that you would have to be quite well into the season before that becomes positively the case.
And so your monies would be tied up for a reasonably long period at the very least.
Again please tell us if it proves to be different to be the case.

Nice last sentence. You know what I mean though.

Again please tell us if it proves to be different to be the case.


If it becomes an express payout market (Which it doesn't currently seem to be) then the example I just posted from Betfair's own help pages (that you never read, instead choosing to post deliberate misinformation in every thread you find) show that this indeed is not the case.

If you dislike me enough to not read my posts, that's great, but if you insist on replying to them, please try to do so accurately.

I can't actually see or understand where we are apparently disagreeing on this.

On an express payout market if you back at a high price and lay at a low price and go all green, you get the money to bet with immediately.

It really is that simple, no need for lengthy debate.

And yes it becomes an express mkt only if and when the original selection can no longer win.
So what are we disagreeing on ?

Where does it say that?

In the 3rd line ?

This means that if you have placed a combination of bets in an Express Payout market that guarantees you a profit − no matter who wins − (or have placed a "lay" bet on a runner that can no longer win,) then your "available to bet" balance will be increased by the lowest possible profit (after a deduction for retained commission) that you can obtain from that particular market.

I have taken the liberty of adding two brackets to help stop you dragging yet another thread into froggyworld.

I'm trying to understand honestly.
If a selection is layed off but it can still win, then presumably if you lift the lay then you are left with an open position than can win or lose.
So no profit can be regarded as fully realised till the selection cannot possibly win ?

What if you've laid three selections at evens for £50

What if you've backed the selection at 100/1 for £10 and laid it at 12/1 for £30?

Both of these would merit an express payout.


If you really don't understand after that, I strongly, and without sarcasm, suggest you read the betfair help pages.

We are not talking about how you can green up at a profit.
We are talking about whether the profit you are showing is guaranteed in the sense that you cannot fiddle around with it furthermore to negate or reduce that profit somehow in the future.
Or isn't that we are talking about ?

If you've greened up, you get paid the lowest green.

If you fiddle around with it, then the money is taken back out of your account.

If you spend the lot, then you're not allowed to fiddle with it.

So therefore that would apply to all markets not just deemed express payout ones then ?
Just trying to clarify.

No.

Most markets if you're all green you can only re-use that green in that market until settlement.

Have patience.
I don't trade ever and have therefore not tested any of this out.
The OP raised a question to which the answer would thus appear to be it doesn't matter what the market is then ?
If so, why did you post otherwise in your very first response to him.
Can yoou see why I am a bit confused, that's all ?.

Posts crossed.
So if you green out, then you get no immediate credit to your account in non express payout mkts ?

If you're all green on a market it doesn't usually credit your balance until it's settled.

If you're all green on an express payout market it does.

Yep.

Going back 12 months or so, can you now see how people can turn over zillions of pounds with a tiny bankroll.

So to push your patience just one bit further, just to be abslutely clear.
If a mkt is deemed to be an express payout one, then if I green up  on something that still has the potential to win or lose, I will be given full intermediate credit for my green position ?
Good to know if not for me then for others presumably and, as such, a useful exchange for once between us.

And for that I will pay your going rate.
What is it currently ?

Yep, that's how it works.

(On non-express markets you can merely re-use the green on the same market, which is still useful... which is how people with £1000 bank can trade £50k on a cricket match and have what you consider to be an obscene return on capital... not that I'm ready for that one again tonight!)

Yep as you know I have long ago fully accepted and ackowledged the veracity of certain claims of obscene returns on captal.
No need at all to revisit that.

Still a freebie Froggy - I do always request to be allowed to be sarcastic when being helpful though.

Btw have we set some sort of precedent here ?.
Actually intelligently and reasonably responding to one another.
If so,let's hope it bodes well for the future then.

I can hardly object to sarcasm ever.

Seems unlikely, but it's a start

Maybe it's never been about what I ask, it's always been about how I ask ?

Now that we are on such friendly terms, I am really going to ask you a shocker now.
How does one post up these smileys ?
I'm serious here.
I have no computer skills at all.
Have never needed them, having retired from the real business and social connectivity scene many years ago.
Eg I have to rely on my wife even to put attachments onto the occasional emails I send out.

Hover over the smiley face icon at the bottom of the reply box, and click whichever one you require.

The slightly weirder ones on the top row don't show in the classic forum though.

And yes I really do live in a cocoon of hedonistic isolation.

Thanks for that[:D]

My very first smiley any time any where.
Thank you very much.
Made my day, no my year in fact.

This is the reply i got from Betfair.

Thank you for your e-mail.

I can advise the release of funds you are enquiry about is called a Express Payout Market, this means that if you have placed a combination of bets in an Express Payout market that guarantees you a profit − no matter who wins − or have placed a "lay" bet on a runner that can no longer win, then your "available to bet" balance will be increased by the lowest possible profit (after a deduction for retained commission) that you can obtain from that particular market.

Express Payout frees up the money you have tied up in a long-running market and allows you to use this money to bet on other Betfair markets.

Express Payout operates in markets which have a long duration such as outright winner markets on tournaments or leagues. Examples of such markets is the Premier League Winners, Wimbledon Winners and RBS 6 Nations Winners. Please note that Express Payout will not be available on any Horse Racing markets, including Antepost.


Please note: You are only able to use the funds which you received from an Express Payout market (positive exposure) on other Exchange markets. The funds cannot be used on any other Betfair product (e.g. Multiples, Poker, Casino) until settlement of the Express Payout market.



Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

So it seems i can back, lay, green up and use profit and original stake to trade again. Will be interesting to see how far i can go trading the whole season on the premier league.