General Betting
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20 Jul 11
13:52
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Date Joined:
17 Jul 11
There cant be any dispute that the pc hike is of a great debate but there are positives from it as there are always positives from a negative somewhere and the now common knowledge that a large group of pro gamblers make a good living out of betfair plus they are only accepted long term on exchanges as long as they dont break any rules can only be postive news for the longevity of the exchange models appeal. liquidity is one way for pc payers to increase there net profits so that will help the company, the share price and the value of the company, I still reckon though high premium payers should have been charged 50% tops as this is the core rate of any partnership if betfair deem that top earners should help fuel the site into continued growth in profits, market territories and products without leaching the revenues that betfair have built up, failing brokering a 50%/50% split a 10% long term share payout on premium payments payed seems like a decent thank you for all the work these guys put in. p.s. good luck to all persons concerned with sporting exchanges as they are here too stay!
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Replies: 107
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by the way top premium payers have you considered if you only bet/trade in a small special area of events to widen your range of activity and events as this would be the way a company would increase profits if there profits became marginalised ! if betfair can do is so can you :-)
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it never work in the past..liquiditiy must fall
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making winners work harder and better to earn more money is good all round, plus it forces them to be more creative nairda
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can the winners claim that they and they alone built the company to the level they can play at now?
if there is such a big leak in the revenues due to winners being so successful in a company that has to pay for everything on marginal profit then a premium charge seems like a good solution, but i would agree that 60/40 seems over the top 50/50 has success bi-lateral fairness ! |
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Winners excepted? Yes. Accepted? No.
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you only pay it if your the elite earners so it will only effect those that take the most out
you only get out what you put in so at least the winners can say they now contribute to the upkeep of there work place as well as that of betfair and its staff. plus the premium charge will help promotions and therefore liquidity in the future so top players will benefit somewhere down the line, as they have thus far thanks to betfair! |
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i think spelling mistakes arent of any value to the topics on here, but thanks for the proofing
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i don't believe winners will bet more money, to win less....if they still betting here after new PC, there turnover must drop as they win less..
the size of my betting bank is the same size as it was 2 weeeks ago, but now you belive i will turnover more money with the same size bank, but make less money each time |
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i think winner will work harder...they will work harder at having the bets match away from betfair
i think you only have to see betduck today, and the tennis matchers at Baku to see what 1 person can do to trading size |
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your arguement there nairda is based on your own circumstances , you personally cant expect to win more if you dont either increase your profit margin or your bet size when speculating, and if you dont pay the top premium charge it wont affect you.
all businesses as top earners are more or less on here, if finding there returns are now lower due to costings, payments to keep running, then if a said business wishes to recapture the previous level of profit must look for either new markets, increased business or new business territory , isnt that what betfair have to do and have done for years so betfair customers can operate in good liquidity! |
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Betfair wont use their premium charge to promote their site
taken from the what a shambles thread and remember it's far worse now and needs updating SEPTEMBER 2001 Joe Punter: Twenty tenners please. Betfair Bob: You would be better off putting that on Betfair rather than this betting shop, It could be as much as 40 on there, less 5% comm, gives you over 37/1. Joe Punter: Really? I will have a look at that. SEPTEMBER 2008 Joe Punter: Twenty tenners please. Betfair Bob: You would be better off putting that on Betfair, it could be as much as 40 on there, less your commission, which is your net winnings multiplied by the Market Base Rate, after your Discount Rate is converted from your Betfair Points Total, and applied to the Market Base Rate, unless of course, you have taken a Betfair Holiday, when your Betfair Points will not be credited, so your Discount Rate will remain the same, but you won't be subject to a 15% decay in your Points Total at the end of the week. However, if you win you may qualify for the Premium Charge of up to 22.5% which is dependant on your forthcoming weekly profit in relation to the commission payable for that week or on a rolling 60 week average, which is when your commission and implied commission is calculated and divided by two, which is ok because it can be offset against the £1000 Premium Charge allowance, and at the end of the week you find out what price you got. Joe Punter: Twenty tenners please. |
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by the way betfair staff have had to for go this years bonuses so dont think premium payers are the only persons expected to help keep the business heading in the right direction, others have made sacrifices too, by the way I dont work for betfair as some folk think, I just try to keep an open mind on things and both sides of an arguement must be always be researched.
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look at the horse racing on purple if you want to see improving liquidity
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buzzer, you seem to miss the whole idea of betting on an exchange, you may well make more profit on paper if you are a regular winner and comparing bookmaker prices than you might using betfair prices but in reality you are a regular winner your account would be suspended on a bookmakers for winning all the time or you would be bannned from there shops, i recently learned that when i used a local bookmakers while winning far too often and they pounced on me when I was owed £900 on a bet, the staff member and the help assistant on the phone admitted i placed it before time on the correct runner that won, but do you think I got paid when i had been winning hundreds from them on several occasions?
no, i havent used that firm since, i have no faith in bookmakers at all |
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I have never had any problems with getting paid out on betfair, and if I had to fore go some of my net profits if I was a regular big winner on betfair I would be happy to do so than get banned and rip off in using a high street bookmaker !
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Betfair where an even money winner is paid out at 2/5!!!
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people have been banned for winning £1000 from bookmakers, do you think high rollers are welcomed in there shops and websites?
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ok dashero fair point but if a consistant winner keeps getting paid out on the only exchange that offers the liquidity that they have built up it beats the even money payout you wont get from a bookmaker when he tells you to get lost.
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answer that one?
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I think you're totally missing the point here.
Betfair want to attract more casual, losing punters to their site so where do they want to get these punters from? Ah, of course, the bookies but they wont want to be telling these 'mugs' that if they happen to get their acts together and win that they'll be hit with a 22.5% charge then, if they continue to be successful, up to a 60% charge. Many are already set in their ways and wouldn't entertain betfair as an option and if you mention premium charges they'd be scared off for life and tell all their bookies mates too. Betfair require/need losing punters on here so that they can, eventually, bleed them dry with commission but they want that money bouncing around for as long as possible skimming bits off here with x matching, bits off their with their mug multiple odds..etc before they take everyones money over a period of time. |
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if regular winners that have potentially made millions out of betfairs platform cant give something back to the eco system that supports them, then if betfair cant increase new customer levels and maintain productivity where will there profit margins be in another ten years time, its a two way street!
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oh, ok...i get it......bf_fananatic is actually 'scooter' the betfair public relations bot. programmed to pr the pc ffs.
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buzzer do these people than you speak of say mugs in bookmakers, lets say there shop, if there were 500 people in there winning over £250,000 in total , the shop admitted it and said its so bad we have to take some off them as its costing us and yet they still allowed them in, do you think then that would put them off going in that bookmaker or make them think, gee I must get in on the action and keep trying the bookmakers is a gambling haven in this shop, take your time buzzer to think it over!
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plus the premium charge will help promotions and therefore liquidity in the future so top players will benefit somewhere down the line, as they have thus far thanks to betfair!
Betfair wont attract new customers with their skimming, thieving and taxation, can't you see that? Gamblers do talk and all that betfair have done over the last three years is stunt their potential growth by moving away from the exchange, person to person, model. They don't use these methods in areas where they have strong competition but where they have the monopoly they do. Bet da q is fast improving and will only get stronger despite what the betfair apologists say I think they've gone a step too far in their quest to seed their own markets, which is what they've wanted to do for a while now, and have shot themselves in the foot. Time will tell. |
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and...
Blocked |
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no I dont get anything from betfair, but I think there is too much negativity going on just because a select small group are going to have to be more creative to make more money. I cant agree that the rate of premium charge is the correct rate , maybe its just too high, but I do think giving something back to ensure the future of the eco system that you operate in is only fair! I have actually been on both sides of the arguement but now I have looked at the bigger picture
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"plus the premium charge will help promotions and therefore liquidity in the future so top players will benefit somewhere down the line, as they have thus far thanks to betfair!"
Like the Betfair Happy Hour casino promotion!!!!! |
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I don't need to think about it.
Bookmakers take a risk, despite big overrounds, the exchange model takes a commission and isn't exposed to any risk whatsover that was the beauty of the exchange model. What is so difficult to understand? |
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Joe Punter: Twenty tenners please.
Betfair Bob: You would be better off putting that on Betfair rather than this betting shop, It could be as much as 40 on there, less 5% comm, gives you over 37/1. Joe Punter: Really? I will have a look at that. Betfair Bob: The only problem is that if you win consistently in the long term you will have to pay more commission and there is an even higher rate due once your winnings exceed £250k. Joe Punter: I should be so lucky. |
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Don't have to win over 250k to incur a premium charge....
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joined 17 july 11 and an expert on betfair hmmmmmm.......
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well buzzer, firstly top earners on here that will pay pc will not stop using betfair, even if they use other exchanges, profit is profit however big or small, I think your talking of the percieved company image, well thats still sound because betfair is now like sliced bread in betting circles and the bread aint gone stale, far from it, and if the net result is other exchanges getting some increased action this will only make more competition between exchanges which again will be a good thing and raise the profile of exchanges verse bookmakers higher, its the bookies that are trembling in there boots not the exchanges, to say you lot use betair all the time perhaps a little understanding of what they are trying to do for the exchanges benefit and less mud slinging would be a
"fairer position all-round" |
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They, betfair, don't want to be an exchange any more!
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anyway nearly 4 million users are on betfair , havent heard all them complaining and certainly the top 500 havent been on here complaining or the forum would jam.
If the paying of the premium charge safegaurds the interests of the premium payers right to survive and thrive on the only betting sites that allow them long term and helps the small margin based exchange company expand and promote all betfair users interests, then logically in the interests of all involved with this exchange, it must be deemed a vital charge. |
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certainly the top 500 havent been on here complaining
We have a bit but most of us recognise the futility of posting. Mere words, after all, achieve nothing. |
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I have not read any reports or statements form betfair that they are going to give up the exchange model , this would not make sense when they are the major spearhead exchange company and have been so successful with it, there possible use of sports books as another source of income would be an added product to the company, not a replacement to the exchange, give them some respect, there not dodos,
I reckon if a simpler for the wider spectrum of gambler interface was available on site or another new site that was much like the more user friendly bookmakers betting pages, it would work quite well, the most obvious question then would or could you then charge the premium charge to players that purely used the sports books if they make a constant profit as the appeal of betting at similar odds to a bookmaker and paying the premium charge would never survive the perceived image of unfairness. on that basis alone I cant see sports pages being a safe addition to the main betfair site using conventional betfair customer accounts. |
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You have faith in them to get a sportsbook up and running??? They destroyed the forum with one of their 'upgrades' and have pissed 30 million into the LMAX black hole and are still struck by site-outages but you can see a seamless birth of a sportsbook???
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tsk
their they're there |
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I have not read any reports or statements form betfair that they are going to give up the exchange model , this would not make sense when they are the major spearhead exchange company and have been so successful with it, there possible use of sports books as another source of income would be an added product to the company, not a replacement to the exchange, give them some respect, there not dodos,
From my perspective, it's a matter of ethics. If you are so concerned about money draining from the system too quickly, then you should close the loopholes in the system which enable this. Instead, you're more than happy to continue to allow punters to be fleeced so long as you get your cut. |