General Betting
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13 Jul 11
19:23
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Date Joined:
17 Sep 02
I've just had the misfortune to stumble across the changes being made to the premium charge. I'm still trying to read up as much as I can, not an easy task when this news is over a fortnight old.
But is it really true that only c.500 customers of their c.3,800,000 have made £250k+ life time gross profit? I see the Guardian are saying this is what Betfair are saying.
I'll be there early next year yet have never considered myself to being a borderline top 500 punter. What am I misunderstanding or is it a blatant lie?
But is it really true that only c.500 customers of their c.3,800,000 have made £250k+ life time gross profit? I see the Guardian are saying this is what Betfair are saying.
I'll be there early next year yet have never considered myself to being a borderline top 500 punter. What am I misunderstanding or is it a blatant lie?
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Replies: 39
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It's 480 PC payers have won 250k+ is how I read it.Probably a few thousand others have won that amount and will never have paid PC.
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Just brought the opening thread to the top for you to have a look at TP.
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frames is talking sh1te as usual. Anyone who's won 250K or more is a pc payer from 18th July and there's 480 of them.
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I stand corrected and surprised.
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Feck
that is not correct.... you might have won more than 250K, but paid enough comission over the years to to be hit by new PC. 480 will have to pay PC, there are more than that who have won >250K but not in a way they will be effected |
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I am fairly sure Feckton has never been wrong .
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And magician should probably know personally all about how to make reams of money even after generating reams of charges, I would think or at least hope.
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The basic people affected by the PC, normal or supercharged,still only remain those who have low charges to GP ratios.
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How very dare those f*ckers have low charges to GP ratios. HOW VERY DARE THEM!
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I dont think many people will have made 250k lifetime and not be hit by the charge myself. Certainly less than the 480 who will be imo.
One way to get an idea is to start a thread asking the question whether those that have, will or will not be paying it. |
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Yep low ratio being a relative term.
Apparently very different in the eyes of BF and in the eyes of very many ( the majority) of net winning punters. Hence the current imbroglio. |
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I stand corrected as well then but it's not those who have won 250K AND paid pc charges (I wish it was).
PS What the magician has wrote isn't correct either but I know what he means. |
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Thanks frames, I dug down and found it and am currently at the bottom of page 5...
The first bit of good news I've found is that it's not gross profit but net profit, so should give me two or three more months before I reach £250k. |
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Yes Clyde that would most certainly be interesting to know.
If nothing else, it would show it can at least be done, not only in theory, but in practice. Maybe BF should give us all some hints on how to do it ? Conceptually, at least, they shouldn't care how we pay them adequate enough charges, that is either by punting in a suitable( to them) manner, or by paying top up PC charges. In fact I would have thought it to be more in their interests for us all to learn excatly how they would like us to punt on their site. |
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I dont think many people will have made 250k lifetime and not be hit by the charge myself.
There must be a few insiders because of the 1,000 markets rule. |
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My English and typing lets me down....
some people (Dont know how many) but at least some have won more than 250K, but have paid more than circa 40% in com, so wont get PC going forward so there are more than 480 people that have won > 250K some have already paid 40% +, others will pay PC to catch up |
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So in fact Feckton was talking sh1te ,how rare.
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people seem more surprised by this 480 figure than the 1,200-1,500 or so who were collared by the pc charge in 2008 .
surely both figures cannot be correct ...wouldn't make sense otherwise ? |
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have i got the first figure incorrect , more like 5,000 on the premium charge ?
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frames is talking sh1te as usual. Anyone who's won 250K or more is a pc payer from 18th July and there's 480 of them.
Only 1 sentence out of 2 is sh1te frames. |
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Coach
The new increases in PC applies only to those whose aggregate profits lifetime are over 250K. The basic PC only applies to those just in profit ( any amount no matter how small) but generating less than 20% charges to GP. You could theoretically only have a few of the first bit many more of the latter. The problem is that many of the latter are rapidly approaching the first group, whic figure ( 250K) appears, for now at least, to be set in stone. Even more worrying to those approaching it rapidly, they fear it may even be readjusted lower at some unknown date. |
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A big mess in its implementation, of that there can be no doubt.
Even if you accept that certain punters are gaining enormous benefit from the exchange without a real quid pro quo, the PC is flawed in its practical form, if not its theoretical form. |
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fine as frog - yeah but surely there must be 0000s on the original premium charge ?
i think it kicks in for most around the 7-12,000 profit mark (allowing for that 1k allowance) ...that's peanuts ! |
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I think I'm agreeing with you on all that Coach.
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How does the original poster know he will get there early next year? Can he see into the future?
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Won't be too long till I have made £250k, nearly lost that amount as well though
 ... How do they take a PC charge? Is it yearly, monthly, on ever bet? |
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Jimmy
Surely he is just extraploating his past performance which, we must assume , has been both consistent and reasonably long term. |
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if the 250,000 level is based as lifetime then many profit making players will be in the future effected!
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Exactement.
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the problem will always be that although in principal the betfair exchange business works on small margins the fact is betfair accounts rely on the principal that as long as money is held in betfair accounts and milled around eventually they hope to win the whole amout by erosion, that taking a little commission many times will make as much profit for betfair model as the bookmakers 128% books.
what betfair dont like is winners because winners take money out of thee accounts and out of betfair circulation. |
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They can handle winners who pay a level of charges sufficient for BF to attract new capital to the exchange.
Or so they claim. |
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the betfair model is probably the finest to date exchange business model ever, but nobody can show betfair the well walked path for success as for them they have too make it them selves, i cant help thinking betfair are making a rod for there own back by purging successful customers without mercy and would rather they sorted out there business infra-structure for the long term to encourage betfair as as the place where winners feel welcome!
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**** has grown hugely out of the mistrust of betfair and this latest pr blunder will only add more zeal too would be companies too start new exchanges too win in areas where betfair has failed to impress or lost confidence with the betting community.
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Can't really argue with any of those generalisations.
The point I continually make is that BF is surely at least trying to think thoroughly and deeply about any and all these recent pricing changes it is announcing. These are core strategic issues/decisions, not just short term share price oriented ones. Or at least I sincerely hope they are doing so. |
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Betfair is still here today isn't it?
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Frog pack it in ...... you talk bull now i have a lot of time for anyone with a reasonable points of view ... i have no time for bull **** ......dont know why i wasted my time posted this ... may be you got up my nose ......zipper
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i am one of the 480 they said to me
The statement of being one of 480 people to make £250k is not quite correct, the figure is around the 540 mark and it is not purely down to making £250k, it is also for those whose total charges generated amount to less than 40% of your gross profit. Therefore it makes you one of the top 540 customers (0.1%) in terms of win rate. >> >>Kind regards |
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The big bossman is correct,my mate has won in excess of 600k and although has been contacted by betfair is not yet liable to any pc charges as he has paid over 40% in total charges.
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youre right i stand at 45% i have to win 52k more to pay charge
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