General Betting
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Current Premium Charges are derived from your GROSS profits whereas the new charges are from your NET profits.
Am I right in assuming that if you can have a GROSS win of £312,500 on your weekly PC Statement (assuming 20% Total Charges)
before you incur the new 40% charge?
Am I right in assuming that if you can have a GROSS win of £312,500 on your weekly PC Statement (assuming 20% Total Charges)
before you incur the new 40% charge?
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Replies: 24
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I'm hoping so!
I'd get Betfair to clarify but I reckon it's odds against that they'd have any idea what I'm talking about. I'd also like to know if when we cross the band if they then recalculate our existence (like they've done for the newly created 40-60% folk) so we get a buffer of sorts based on if we'd paid 40% our whole lives (and therefore would have paid more imaginary PC than we should have, creating a buffer like they are currently) I'm not even sure I could word that in a way they'll understand even if I thought they'd understand it if I did. Which they wouldn't. |
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Am I right that it's now in our (100-250k, 10-20%) interests to muller the markets at 9% if at all possible until we hit 250k so that we get our top-up at 50% and not 40%, meaning we create more headroom when going back to normal strategy once we cross the 250k line?
A kind of anti-churn? Does anyone happen to know how it's going to be applied? |
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Lori,
I have emailed Betfair asking for a lifetime statement for commissions paid - must be a fair whack after 10 years on here. I have already changed the way I play to increase my commission contributions but when I get to the £250,000 NET win threshold then that's it. The current Premium Charge statements just don't tell you what you have paid, just Commission Generated which is not a lot of help. If clients really knew how nuch commission they were paying they might just give up! I think ALL premium charge players should take a few days off from 18th July just to see what happens to the site - might be an interesting to see. |
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They have been very cagey about giving out lifetime PAID statements, but you're right, they'll now have to if we ask.
It'll be interesting to see what happens as of 18th July I agree. |
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just phone them and ask for your lifetime net profit. they will tell you immediately. (though won't be able to tell you why it doesn't equal gross profit - charges) they have the figure to hand. it is sat on a sub screen in the usual pc portal that users don't have access to but staff do.
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Cheers bft
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lori - i meant someone in the pc team can tell you immediately. not sure if help desk can. but the pc bods called back quite quickly.
honest al - if my memory serves me correct wasn't it you that had the taxman after his pound of flesh? last i recall it was at standoff. sorry if i missed any updates but was it ever resolved? |
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bf trader,
Yes, it was me with the taxman. I finally settled for £6,000 when they wanted £15,000. The good news was that the money I won was on somebody elses account so that saves me a lot more in Premium Charges not having to be paid. I would have been in the 40% bracket had I bet on my own account! However, getting too close for comfort to the new charge on my own account now, hence the need to check my lifetime commissions paid. |
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Am I right that it's now in our (100-250k, 10-20%) interests to muller the markets at 9% if at all possible until we hit 250k so that we get our top-up at 50% and not 40%, meaning we create more headroom when going back to normal strategy once we cross the 250k line?
A kind of anti-churn? Does anyone happen to know how it's going to be applied? Lori As I understand it that's exactly the opposite of what you should be doing. You may get a top up at 50% but you're stuck on 50% until something even worse is introduced, even if you subsequently go back above 10% commission on gross profits. I am rapidly approaching the £250000 and on just over 10% comission/gp but with a current strategy where I pay less than that. I'm thinking I'll have to be very careful not to drop under 10%.I think the charging band is fixed at the moment you reach £250000, or your June 20th comission/gp, so if I drop under the 10% after I've reached £250000 I'll remain in the 40% charging band. I may be wrong, but that's my reading of the rules. |
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Lame, doesn't the charging band fall as winners start paying 40%, eventually pushing very efficient players into 40% (the lowest of the three super-bands)? That is, aren't they thinking that roughly a 50-50 split is fair enough?
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Cheers LR
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askari
I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you've made over £250000 and been put in the 60% category, that's where you stay, until there's some change of rules. Are you talking about winners yet to cross the £250000 mark? |
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Lame, I didn't know / didn't understand you were allocated a band and made to stay there. I thought that the calculation of yr lifetime ratio of profits to costs (inc. comm.) wd be rolling, so that as you gradually paid up to 50% or 60% within the collection period basis, yr proportion of lifetime costs wd gradually rise.
Do you suppose that someone who has made over 250k over their lifetime at a cost to them of less than 5% of profits is in perpetuity on 60%? |
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askari yes they are permanently on 60%. something I find hard to take. Been here 10 years and given sign die. no parole board, no early release for good behavior, no recognition of loyalty for the early days. Its the end.
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This can't be right. Surely it must change as your lifetime rate changes. Can't make any sense otherwise.
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"If you satisfy the conditions set out above on 20th June 2011, your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio on that date will be used to determine the Premium Charge rate that will be applied to your betting thereafter. If you first satisfy the conditions above after 20th June 2011, your Premium Charge rate will be determined based on your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio at that time. "
Unfortunately it appears to be true. The rate whether 40, 50 or 60 is yours for life. |
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Thank you hazel.
They really are showing the exit. |
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But how are they planning on weeding out avoidance? People will be able to claim they are coaching new players to win in the manner they did up to the 'ceiling'.
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you are allowed to teach others to bet, but obviously you cant get involved in their betting.
Thats not avoidance, its helping others improve their strategy. Read "betfair earnings and charges soar" http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/ |
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It's 480 customers affected. They'll make the rules up as they go along.
Bend over. |
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Sure this is correct ? you stick to the band your allocated on the 20th June? my betting would fluctuate between between 60 and 50%
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The quote posted above would seem to suggest that, but it doesn't sound right.
I just can't imagine someone who is currently on 40% but then increases their efficiency and stakes in the future such that they would have been on 60%, being let off the extra 20% by BF! |
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I received this when seeking clarifcation from the help me:
Seems to me that your band can change depending on CG and GP i.e your not stuck for life on a band ? Is this right ? ---------------------- Customers that satisfy all of the above conditions will be asked to pay Premium Charges at rates between 40% and 60% on all future exchange activity. What amount you pay will be depending on the following:- 0-5% Lifetime commission generated of lifetime gross profits = 60% Premium Charge 5-10% Lifetime commission generated of lifetime gross profits = 50% Premium Charge 10-40% Lifetime commission generated of lifetime gross profits = 40% Premium Charge Above 40% Lifetime commission generated of lifetime gross profits = No Premium Charge So the only way the amount you will pay will change from when the new rate is introduced is dependant on the above criteria. --------------------------- |
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*desk
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