General Betting
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30 Jun 11
18:55
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Date Joined:
28 Oct 08
I know that at least a few years back they were making a loss and Dermot was ploughing a lot of his cash into the business. I don't know if things are better now but I am surprised to see that during recent sporting events such as Champions League, Wimbledon, Cheltenham etc they haven't been absolutely battering us with advertising.
Everything else is in place, they've got the site, the technology, the staff and the market position. Why aren't they jumping the last hurdle and bringing in the customers via a targeted and heavy campaign of advertising and promotion ?
Everything else is in place, they've got the site, the technology, the staff and the market position. Why aren't they jumping the last hurdle and bringing in the customers via a targeted and heavy campaign of advertising and promotion ?
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Replies: 74
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Yes I completely agree. Ive wondered this for a while though, perhaps like a lot of other bettors, and it just never seems to happen.
I am also surprised that a new competitor hasnt burst onto the scene in the last few years. There's a huge market out there to expolit - just look at bf's turnover on a tennis match at Wimbledon. And you would think that all it takes is enough backing to get the name out there and the rest is easy. Just sit back and watch the cash roll in. Someone like Branson should be getting stuck in I reckon. |
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I/r only works well if the money is all in the same place and purple is currently pathetic for that
until the major layers and importantly the big i/r players move nothing will happen my guess is the major pre-match market makers are not affected by the new charge as they work off such small margins and BF have been very careful to ensure these people are unlikely to feel a need to move elsewhere |
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my guess is the major pre-match market makers are not affected by the new charge as they work off such small margins and BF have been very careful to ensure these people are unlikely to feel a need to move elsewhere
You are wrong there. Pre-match MM will be hit. |
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Sometimes the best advertising you can get is when the competition shoot themselves in the foot. BF are doing a wonderful job of promoting the purple people at the moment without the purple needing to spend anything.
Personally i used to love BF back in the day, 3 years ago i think 90% of my turnover was on here, now it is 90% elsewhere. |
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My commission rate elsewhere is now better than my rate on Betfair.
How times are changing. |
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Well done Mr Memory.
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pxb why do you reckon the major pre-match MMs will be hit? I would have thought putting up money across thousands of markets per week sets them up for very low margin returns and a big chunk of commission paid to BF?
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There was a full page advert in the Racing Post either yesterday or the day before I think.
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I have no idea how much weetabix spent on advertising and sponsoring before they were up and running, but it must have been at least well over £1,000,000. How in God's name they came up with that iterface I've no idea. They had a major chance to compete. Sadly, a damp squib.
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imo, the only scenario BF need to worry about with sh!tdaq is a group of very top level PC payers getting together, buying into it, rebranding it and relaunching it as a credible p2p competitor.
the current ownership proved 3 years ago they just don't have the basic entrepreneurial competence to compete effectively, and nothing that's happened since has done anything to change that evaluation. |
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I'll agree with stewarty, the BD interface is inferior. On the other hand you can get FREE betangeland daqbot for it.
(I've not used either, keep meaning to download and try one rainy quiet evening, but their BF versions are both considered good?) |
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I've always thought the BD interface was fundamentally better.
For me, the ability to suspend bets (rather than cancel and re-enter them) is massive when forming a market with multiple runners. I've also never had the trouble finding soccer matches on the menu that I have here. Of course, it looks like someone puked on my screen, but that doesn't bother me too much. Agree with all the other comments about it though. |
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The suspend feature is a very good idea but that's more a feature of their underlying system (that their API apps can also use) than the web interface.
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I wd be interested in the view of someone who traded heavily w/ them on the question of whether their technology is good enough.
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It's probably not good enough to support a large influx of customers, it's certainly good enough to trade on
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Isn't the web interface basically identical to betfairs, albeit in worse colours?
There are some tiny plusses and minuses (plus: can click arrows up and down on both price/amount, plus: can take all of the money at a price in one click, minus: no "my markets" minus: refresh is a pain when market re-ordered) but I don't think the untrained eye would even notice the difference. |
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(FWIW I know I'm in the minority here, I've just never been told what it is people actually find different enough to go much beyond a small personal preference)
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They charge the Ferengi next to nothing.
The Ferengi can't operate without the gamblers. They charge the gamblers the same as betfair (in fact more at first) but if they mysteriously managed to attract them the site wouldn't be able to cope with the free lunch Ferengi. Pure genius. |
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the essence of what's wrong with the daq is that by definition an exchange needs to attract an ongoing flow of new money, ie recreational punters, ie losers.
how well the interface suits pros is a valid but different question. the real reason it is and will remain moribund is they've put precisely zero thought into how to attract losers. and that starts with the name. it falls at the first hurdle. you overhear someone in the pub say "10 to 1? i got 15s on b€tdaq". that's interesting, you think. I'll check that out. so you get home and type "betdack" into your computer. if you get over that hurdle and eventually find it... "what's a daq? i don't know. sounds a bit complicated. that q makes it sound a bit foreign. there was that thing nasdaq. i don't know what that is either. actually, you know what - i'm gonna skip this and stick with what feels familiar." sounds like the thought process of an idiot? well, that's exactly who you're trying to attract you numbnuts. |
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Just Checking
03 Jul 11 13:27 Joined: 25 Jun 06 | Topic/replies: 6,978 | Blogger: Just Checking's blog I'll agree with stewarty, the BD interface is inferior. Just Checking, I was talking about WBX. |
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Unfortunatly, with purple you are dealing with a small time company without the wit, ingenuity or drive to compete with betfair. Just have a look at how few markets there are, and it's no wonder that people have no choice but to stick around here. They haven't even got markets on the divisions one and two in the football yet - wtf?!?
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How would increasing the number of markets and spreading any money in the banks of BetDuck users around already illiquid markets possibly help the site?
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Just Checking, it's not rocket science to work out that a site which has hardly any markets is not going to attract many customers, especially when you have no idea when the few that do exist are going to be put up.
Come on, you are a lot more intelligent than that last question. |
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree there. If you've a cinema for a small town it won't have 5 different screens with 10 customers in each showing. Until BD expand imho they should have a smaller amount of well chosen markets.
There may be diehards who will want to bet on the 2nd division title this early on, but for a lot of people it'll be "I fancy a bet on that or maybe that, what's available". I've heard an awful lot of complaints about liqudity on BD, very few about a lack of markets. |
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I agree about that JC, more markets was something Betfair were very loathe to add in the early days for fear of thinning out liquidity
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"If you've a cinema for a small town it won't have 5 different screens with 10 customers in each showing"
To continue this analogy, how many customers would this small town cinema expect to attract from its major competitor if it only showed the same two films all year round? "There may be diehards who will want to bet on the 2nd division title this early on" Well even if there were only two people who wished to bet on the 2nd division title at this moment, why on earth would you not have the market up now? They will have to put it up eventually, what possible justification is there for not doing so right this minute? "I've heard an awful lot of complaints about liqudity on BD, very few about a lack of markets" Try going on their forum, you will see loads. And even worse, there is seemingly no pattern. For a football match you could get the match odds going up 3/4 days prior to the game, the Asian Handicap 2 days before, and maybe the correct score market on the morning of the game. It is a complete and utter shambles, tbh. You don't get liquidity without more customers, you don't get more customers without more markets, and a reliable timescale for them being put up. Simple as that, really. |
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even on BF a lot of minor markets are too dead to play, especially in running.
anything that can't be automatically priced up as a direct derivative of a more major market can only really be priced up on the fly by a human being with eyes and a brain on it. essentially, a lot of what some of the people they've gone after with the PC do is mechanical turk live pricing. it's work, it involves them risking their capital and BF benefit from it through increased choice to the recreational player and tighter overrounds. that's why it seems iniquitous to me that they treat all winners the same. two people on exactly the same percentages can be having completely opposed impacts on the "health" of the site. |
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Well Lori agrees with me, so there :P
Seriously though, I don't think it's in their interests to have too many markets. To ME anyway BDs primary problem is liquidity. If they've say 10000 customers with loaded banks wanting a bet that day, you are far better having 50 markets than 500. Even "bigger" games can have tumbleweed markets there never mind the small ones. Field of dreams was a film, not a business strategy [:p] if you build the markets, it does not mean "they will come"  |
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I've thought for a while that maybe duck could target specific sports e.g if it becomes the one stop shop for say Tennis, Golf or Rugby it may be enough to get them rolling.
However the point about attracting losers is very valid. Do good a lot of market makers and PC payers going over there and fighting it out amongst themselves. But i/r liquidity is a must have for me. The other day I looked at a race where a horse was beaten on here at around 1.51 with thousands matched at various intervals under evens. On the duck there was one bet matched at 1.67 for about £100. In running just cannot be contemplated over there as it stands and that is a major barrier to change. |
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I agree with that, TheVis, but I go back to my previous point about liquidity. You will get that only by attracting more customers, and if there are only a small number of markets to bet on, many of which you have no idea when they going to appear, what reason would anyone have for continually going to the site on the off chance that it might exist?
The decent liquidity in the main markets clearly shows that there is a demand, so why on earth would you not push the boat out and try to offer more? If it doesn't work, well, you've lost nothing by trying. |
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sideshowbob 01 Jul 11 22:07
I placed bets that were up on their site, the prices were overly generous and i presumed it was someones automatic software bot thing gone wrong. Now they have locked my account, virtually accused me of fraud and wont release any of my funds or void the bets. They say they are conducting an investigation. Overall i have about 6k in bets and funds that i can only presume they are trying to steal. I can't see why they would care if a customer has put silly prices up, so i presume the site themselves are laying bets to cover up empty markets. Anybody who bets with this joke firm are taking a huge risk imo. from chit chat, there's a thread over there. |
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Who the h*ll is flatliner responding to??
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I think he's just generally amplifying on the point that they're a hopeless two-bit firm JC.
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Ahh it's not that clear (or wasn't when I first read his post) but yes there's a thread in chimp chat
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turtleshead
03 Jul 11 14:54 Joined: 01 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 10,992 | Blogger: turtleshead's blog Unfortunatly, with purple you are dealing with a small time company without the wit, ingenuity or drive to compete with betfair. Things can change turtleshead...... |
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They can, and anyone who cares about proper competition will be hoping they do, stewarty.
Sadly that does not look like happening any time soon  |
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Last UK/Ire race of the day - Bellewstown. The only odds on money traded over at the duck was £26 @ 1.01 on the winner
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things can change, sb - but in this case it's guaranteed they won't until they address the issue of how to attract losing punters and traders to the site.
and what sign is there that they're doing that? |
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viva el presidente!
Do you really think someone hearing the name might try to find www.betdack.com |