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24 Jun 11
15:48
Joined:
Date Joined:
10 Jun 06
surprised there's been no discussion of this on here, tbh. let me start with a quote:
2.1 During any outage to the Exchange, we'll ensure a level playing field for our customers. -
In the event of an unplanned Sports Exchange website outage, we will disable all other platforms so that customers betting on other channels do not gain an unfair advantage. We have introduced a specific Outage Policy which you can read in full here. It includes a commitment to clear and regular communication both during and after any outage and a consistent approach to the management of affected markets.
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yet, during last night's outage, some people were able to match bets at stupid prices in the u17s football while most could not access markets to cancel. and this market was settled in full several hours later. in fact there's been someone bragging about the money they hoovered on the football forum this morning.
even if (as I'm sure they will) BF reverse settle the post outage bets, those affected have been left with a potentially large amount of their banks tied up. two questions need to be answered:
1 why in the light of the commitment were some people able to acces and bet on the site when others couldn't?
2 who took the decision to settle the market this morning, and why?
2.1 During any outage to the Exchange, we'll ensure a level playing field for our customers. -
In the event of an unplanned Sports Exchange website outage, we will disable all other platforms so that customers betting on other channels do not gain an unfair advantage. We have introduced a specific Outage Policy which you can read in full here. It includes a commitment to clear and regular communication both during and after any outage and a consistent approach to the management of affected markets.
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yet, during last night's outage, some people were able to match bets at stupid prices in the u17s football while most could not access markets to cancel. and this market was settled in full several hours later. in fact there's been someone bragging about the money they hoovered on the football forum this morning.
even if (as I'm sure they will) BF reverse settle the post outage bets, those affected have been left with a potentially large amount of their banks tied up. two questions need to be answered:
1 why in the light of the commitment were some people able to acces and bet on the site when others couldn't?
2 who took the decision to settle the market this morning, and why?
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I had a bet that was unmatched in play on the draw at 4.6 in the ivory coast u17 v denmark u17 game when the site went down at 00:12 with the score at 0-1. It had bits of it matched at 00:36, 00:49, 00:50, 01:27 and 01:28 when the site was offline. The game finished 4-2 so without the market being cleared when a goal went in some people must have had a field day!
Considering the outage customer commitment states that unmatched bets would be cancelled during an outage it seems odd they have settled the market.
Considering the outage customer commitment states that unmatched bets would be cancelled during an outage it seems odd they have settled the market.
i've ttt'ed the relevant threads in football betting.
some communication from BF (as promised above) would be apposite at this point if they want anyone to take their customer commitment seriously.
some communication from BF (as promised above) would be apposite at this point if they want anyone to take their customer commitment seriously.
Viva I started a thread about this already on site feedback to go straight to the BCM.
Ken, the denmark markets LOOKED available to some (including me) virtually the entire game, uncancelled and unsuspended. At 2-2 never mind match odds, the over 1.5/2.5/3.5/4.5 markets still LOOKED available, still at odds for 0-1! I was tempted to test if I could take say £2 and ask betfair to cancel the bet, but chickened out. But as I say they looked available to bet on. I think it went down a bit later than 0:12, unless it went down differently for different people, but certainly 0:36 was well into the broken period.
Even AFTER the Uruguay game had finished 3-0, I could still see a market for home win from when it was 1-0 in play. No joke.
Maybe bets would've worked, maybe not, but it was very worrying especially given this is the first big outage I'm aware of since the "commitment", it's like nothign has been learned.
If you've bets you layed @ odds 0-1 and being taken at @ 3-2, BF are doing something very wrong.
Ken, the denmark markets LOOKED available to some (including me) virtually the entire game, uncancelled and unsuspended. At 2-2 never mind match odds, the over 1.5/2.5/3.5/4.5 markets still LOOKED available, still at odds for 0-1! I was tempted to test if I could take say £2 and ask betfair to cancel the bet, but chickened out. But as I say they looked available to bet on. I think it went down a bit later than 0:12, unless it went down differently for different people, but certainly 0:36 was well into the broken period.
Even AFTER the Uruguay game had finished 3-0, I could still see a market for home win from when it was 1-0 in play. No joke.
Maybe bets would've worked, maybe not, but it was very worrying especially given this is the first big outage I'm aware of since the "commitment", it's like nothign has been learned.
If you've bets you layed @ odds 0-1 and being taken at @ 3-2, BF are doing something very wrong.
Many thanks for the ttt, it looks as though a few people were caught out. The only communication I had was ringing betfair last night who said that as the site was down unmatched bets would be cancelled.
Hopefully betfair will void bet matched after 00:12 as per the customer commitment and the problem is just a delay in voiding bets rather than the problem of allowing a free for all when the site goes down.
Hopefully betfair will void bet matched after 00:12 as per the customer commitment and the problem is just a delay in voiding bets rather than the problem of allowing a free for all when the site goes down.
One thought I had at time was I was seeing old cr*p data from some load spreading server still online and the main system was now dead, and bets wouldn't have worked. BUT then much later on something DID happen to the denmark match odds, sods law when I tried to look in detail the site died completely for me as well, but I think they did accept denmark bets in play when the site was screwed. And you've people complaining on the football forum and some idiot boasting about gaining from it, so ..
Looked like old data to me as well, trying to bet or amend/cancel a bet was not possible for most. If they cancel unmatched bets when the general site crashes it wouldn't be a concern as the hooverers would only be betting against themselves rather than cherry picking out of line prices.
Oh you COULD see it Ken?
I could go to e.g. markets for the uruguay game I'd not been to before and see them, so it was certainly "fresh for me" data from betfair, and it "looked" live, just not changing if you payed close attention.
One possibility is the bets WEREN'T cancelled, the route that allows bets to work was intermittently online so people sitting trying and tryign could nab a bit here and there? Why didn't they suspend everything, that's what we need to know. That's step 1, as soon as the inplay markets get screwed by an outage, suspend them surely? Non inplay markets, not urgent, but inplay ones, surely?
I could go to e.g. markets for the uruguay game I'd not been to before and see them, so it was certainly "fresh for me" data from betfair, and it "looked" live, just not changing if you payed close attention.
One possibility is the bets WEREN'T cancelled, the route that allows bets to work was intermittently online so people sitting trying and tryign could nab a bit here and there? Why didn't they suspend everything, that's what we need to know. That's step 1, as soon as the inplay markets get screwed by an outage, suspend them surely? Non inplay markets, not urgent, but inplay ones, surely?
I could see the market on the in-play coupon with the odds stuck at the price when the site crashed but couldn't open the market to cancel my bets. Tried using the API, betfair lite and accessing My Account to cancel bets and all failed.
I tried to log in to betfair.com using various browsers and rang them to cancel my bet all of which failed due to the site being down, not sure what else I could of done. The betfair customer commitment seems fair, just hope they stick to it.
I tried to log in to betfair.com using various browsers and rang them to cancel my bet all of which failed due to the site being down, not sure what else I could of done. The betfair customer commitment seems fair, just hope they stick to it.
I couldn't access BF at all (website or API) for what seemed like a couple of hours starting just after midnight, but I assumed that all matched bets after the outage kick off time would be cancelled.
Unfortunately it seems to have gone the same way as the promises made in their Q&A. i.e it's all show and no go.
Still waiting for Keep Bets and Correct Score 2 markets. Faster withdrawals. Exposure limits per market. The 'to do list' goes on and on.
Still waiting for Keep Bets and Correct Score 2 markets. Faster withdrawals. Exposure limits per market. The 'to do list' goes on and on.
It includes a commitment to clear and regular communication both during and after any outage
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no one made them write this. so why do it, then the first time it's an issue not follow through?
a simple statement on what they're doing re the affected markets should not be hard. yet it's nearly a day, and nothing.
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no one made them write this. so why do it, then the first time it's an issue not follow through?
a simple statement on what they're doing re the affected markets should not be hard. yet it's nearly a day, and nothing.
Strange, I just made the same point at the same time in another thread viva.
Would it really hurt to spent a minute writing a sticky thread that says 'This is what went wrong. This is what we're doing as a result'.
Customer Commitment
I knew it was too good to be true when it came out.
Would it really hurt to spent a minute writing a sticky thread that says 'This is what went wrong. This is what we're doing as a result'.
Customer Commitment
I knew it was too good to be true when it came out.
statement now up:
Betfair Customer Services Joined: 22 May 02
Replies: 2163 24 Jun 11 21:41
It has come to our attention that for brief periods during the Betfair website outage in the early hours of this morning, some customers were able to place bets. This issue was not specific to any betting channel (website, API, mobile etc) and was resolved at 1.40am BST, from which point all betting was disabled until the website was fully restored. Therefore, in the interests of fairness we have taken the decision to void bets that were matched during the outage on In-Play football markets and will be investigating other potentially affected markets tomorrow.
Betfair Customer Services Joined: 22 May 02
Replies: 2163 24 Jun 11 21:41
It has come to our attention that for brief periods during the Betfair website outage in the early hours of this morning, some customers were able to place bets. This issue was not specific to any betting channel (website, API, mobile etc) and was resolved at 1.40am BST, from which point all betting was disabled until the website was fully restored. Therefore, in the interests of fairness we have taken the decision to void bets that were matched during the outage on In-Play football markets and will be investigating other potentially affected markets tomorrow.
So they do listen afterall ?
Do they now get some kudos instead of the usual brickbats ?
Do they now get some kudos instead of the usual brickbats ?
they get a very lukewarm round of applause for putting something up.
it's taken them nearly 24 hours, and what they've communicated is vague. in particuar it doesn't reassure those who've seen their stakes and winnings from pre-outage bets disappear from their account (see football forum). I don't doubt it's part of the process and they'll get it back in the end, but it's needless anxiety that could have been avoided with some simple communication, as per their stated policy.
even a BF cheerleader such as yourself is gonna struggle putting a shine on this one fafh.
it's taken them nearly 24 hours, and what they've communicated is vague. in particuar it doesn't reassure those who've seen their stakes and winnings from pre-outage bets disappear from their account (see football forum). I don't doubt it's part of the process and they'll get it back in the end, but it's needless anxiety that could have been avoided with some simple communication, as per their stated policy.
even a BF cheerleader such as yourself is gonna struggle putting a shine on this one fafh.
FAFH Listening is good yes, but I think the problem is they are perpetually fire fighting these things.
They gave the impression they'd given it a big think through, had put procedures in place to follow, that's great!
But very next time it happens, the impression is then given they never actually implemented any of it internally and it's chaos and pot luck if you end up screwed or not. There's no point coming up with things if people aren't trained and they're just ignored. They have fire drills. Do they have outage drills?
And after the dust settled, why didn't someone check immediately and say 'hang on, bets were being taken at 1am, what's up with that" before they settled everything?
Of course maybe today has been shoutey meeting and b*ll*cking central at BF HQ, who knows!
They gave the impression they'd given it a big think through, had put procedures in place to follow, that's great!
But very next time it happens, the impression is then given they never actually implemented any of it internally and it's chaos and pot luck if you end up screwed or not. There's no point coming up with things if people aren't trained and they're just ignored. They have fire drills. Do they have outage drills?
And after the dust settled, why didn't someone check immediately and say 'hang on, bets were being taken at 1am, what's up with that" before they settled everything?
Of course maybe today has been shoutey meeting and b*ll*cking central at BF HQ, who knows!
good grief...here we go again!!
"they do listen"....they shouldn't have had to 'listen' or as the statement says "it has come to our attention"...how can you not have noticed transactions were being processed during a sizeable window?? transaction numbers were being used, balances were altering etc etc....or were the whole Ops dept in bed?
"they do listen"....they shouldn't have had to 'listen' or as the statement says "it has come to our attention"...how can you not have noticed transactions were being processed during a sizeable window?? transaction numbers were being used, balances were altering etc etc....or were the whole Ops dept in bed?
FAFH this is standard form from Betfair.
They usually do that after a dozen or so hundred + reply threads have been created.
Never before.
They usually do that after a dozen or so hundred + reply threads have been created.
Never before.
Glad it has all been sorted although it could have been a smoother ride!
Yes Ken sounds good, they seem to have slightly readjusted things. I must've had a few quid matched during the outage as I'm down slightly, I'd rather be down a few quid and it was fair. I was stung like you were in a previous outage, bad feeling!
Cancelling bets, yes yes yes please betfair allow us to cancel if you can, but matching bets when others are helpless, no.
Cancelling bets, yes yes yes please betfair allow us to cancel if you can, but matching bets when others are helpless, no.
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