General Betting
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21 Jun 11
12:08
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Date Joined:
21 Jun 11
WE opened an account a week ago. WE take a (one sided) position on several horses in almost every race. So far WE have bet into 150 markets and the fates have been kind to us. As our profit on turnover is way above the norm WE have only paid 10% of our gross profits in commission. Another week like this and WE will be due to pay the premium charge. Thereafter WE will be whacked right up till the inevitable lengthy losing run sets in. WE are the kind of customers betfair should want yet, by the end of the flat season, WE may have paid 40% of our gross profits in commission instead of the 30% WE might have paid in the absence of the pc. Is it any wonder they are having problems attracting new customers?
WE have nothing against the principle that each customer should pay a minimum percentage of their gross profits in commission but why should some customers pay more just because of the order of their results? Betfair say they cannot give pc rebates because of the potential for evasion so why don't they give these rebates in the form of commission tokens that can be used to pay future commission charges (normal or premium)? That would not be open to sharp practice and would remove a major flaw in the premium charge.
The streets of Hammersmith will run red with blood before WE will pay extra to accomodate a flawed charge designed for dogs.
WE have nothing against the principle that each customer should pay a minimum percentage of their gross profits in commission but why should some customers pay more just because of the order of their results? Betfair say they cannot give pc rebates because of the potential for evasion so why don't they give these rebates in the form of commission tokens that can be used to pay future commission charges (normal or premium)? That would not be open to sharp practice and would remove a major flaw in the premium charge.
The streets of Hammersmith will run red with blood before WE will pay extra to accomodate a flawed charge designed for dogs.
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Replies: 185
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Well said Dead. A good idea (imo).
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I didn't think you agreed with multiple chatnames Feck
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Much better to abolish the charge and close the accounts of those who are 'cheating' by betting trackside or at the event.
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[:o]
WE will electrocute you buzzer. |
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When you say "We" what do you mean? Unless you are all new customers your accounts should be "pooled" for premium charges shouldn't they?
The type of customers Betfair want most are the type that seed the markets imo. If the markets aren't seeded punters will bet at conventional bookies. As for your PC suggestion, I think it's good in theory but perhaps too costly to implement. |
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betting trackside at the event under Betfair rules isnt cheating AFAIK
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That's why I put it in inverted commas CB.
It's fecks most often used defence of the charge. To claim that the only people who pay it are those who make a fortune by backing trackside or using fast pics. If betfair have a problem with this then the PC is a poor and inefficient way of dealing with it. Change the T@C's and just identify the accounts and close them. |
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The type of customers Betfair want most are the type that seed the markets imo
Without my cash in some of the smaller weekly specials markets (SCD, DOI, etc) there would be no money in them and the HS would be the punters only option. It doesn't stop them hammering me. |
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As for your PC suggestion, I think it's good in theory but perhaps too costly to implement.
Easy to implement Clydebank. Could all be done on a Wednesday when they work out these things in any case. |
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No rebates is regularly put forward as justification for pc whinging. The fact none of those who raise that point have even bothered to respond to what is (in our opinion) a viable solution to the problem shows that it's irrelevant to their real agenda.
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Rebates = good idea
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what's the potential for evasion (like no one's evading at the moment lol)... rebates sounds fair enough in an eddie the eagle type scenario
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If anybody argued against rebates, then they would have some sort of very weird agenda going.
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It would cost betfair money, and be fairer, so hence there is no chance of it happening.
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You never know turtle.
But it might happen too slowly for you. |
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This would be very easy for betfair to implement. They calculate how much pc's you should have paid on your lifetime profit up to the end of the previous week. If you've paid less pc's than that you get charged the difference as normal. If you've paid more than that they rebate the minimum of that overpayment and the amount of normal commission paid the previous week and reduce your lifetime pc's figure by the same amount.
The potential for evasion had straight rebates been introduced is easy to see (e.g. you've paid 100K pc's on an account, you lose the equivalent of your lifetime gross profits to a new secondary account by offering 100.0 about a certainty and you're then due a 100K rebate). The same potential doesn't exist with the above idea as the rebates can only be offset against future commission paid. The only thing I can think of is a winning trader swapping accounts with a prize mug but a) that can be done just now and b) betfair could quickly pick up on it and close both accounts. |
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''No rebates is regularly put forward as justification for pc whinging. The fact none of those who raise that point have even bothered to respond to what is (in our opinion) a viable solution to the problem shows that it's irrelevant to their real agenda.''
**** me, the threads been up less than 7 hrs. |
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The potential for evasion had straight rebates been introduced is easy to see (e.g. you've paid 100K pc's on an account, you lose the equivalent of your lifetime gross profits to a new secondary account by offering 100.0 about a certainty and you're then due a 100K rebate). Losing to an account of your choice doesnt strike me as easy these days with bots and x-matching? Plus, do they not look out for things like that due to money laundering? And thirdly a pc-account losing a big % of it's winnings should stand out like a sore thumb even to the YTS lad doing the detective work at Hammersmith. |
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less than 7 hrs when that was posted, that is.
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this'll turn into a 12-page pc whingefest 1.01
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Losing to an account of your choice doesnt strike me as easy these days with bots and x-matching? Plus, do they not look out for things like that due to money laundering? And thirdly a pc-account losing a big % of it's winnings should stand out like a sore thumb even to the YTS lad doing the detective work at Hammersmith.
I agree noodles. I don't think betfair consider spotting such moves to be the problem. I'd imagine they'd be more worried about the legalities if someone took them to court over it. With the above rebating method they'd be able to close the account before any damage was done. |
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duncan, 7 hours is a long time in pc calimero land. I've seen pc whinging threads reach page 4 in that time.
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And of the 12 pages Feckton will have contributed 4 of them at least.
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You can always count on Dames posting at least one to appease his OCD.
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If Betfair can do this and have the will to do this then I really think they should seriously consider it. For all the bad feeling that has been generated against the company by those that face the charge and for all the efforts that the company is making to improve their customer relations nothing will have a better effect than implementing this suggestion, save for scrapping the charge altogether.
If they can't see this then they really don't understand betting or their customers. While I don't think ironing out the detail and automating the procedure is anywhere near as easy as some people on this thread think its the best idea for change since the premium charge was introduced |
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Thanks for the support Clydebank. Personally I can't see any difficulty at all in implementing this. I just hope betfair's enthusiasm for the idea is better than this forum's. This must be the shortest pc thread in history.
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It's rather like the tory attempts to make the Poll tax fairer.
Better to abolish the whole thing. |
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It's rather like the tory attempts to make the Poll tax fairer.
Better to abolish the whole thing. Spot on five. It's caused more hassle than any other subject on here. I've never paid the PC charge personally, but if it ever happened to me I would be straight back to purple. (like I did when it was first introduced and I was paying approx 4.1% commission on here. Not the same liquidity, but the 2.5% made up for it). No doubt the fear factor hit me. |
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Why not just wish they'd abolish all commission?
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Because there would be no business left.
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So just wish instead that they cut your commission to practically SFA and let everyone else subsidise you?
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I don't want my commission cut.
I pay 5% and am happy to keep paying that. My probably is with betfair bringing in the PC, not the commission structure, where many people pay much less than me. As little as 2% |
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Now now, fll, that's a bit misleading....
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I'm sure many will swap their commission %age on profit with you five cells.
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lol , how many accounts do you have feckwit?
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..and I'd swap my net profit for many on 2%
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Aha, another Feck account, he could have kept people guessing for a bit longer...but sooner or later he would start babbling nonsense about the pc or the entire world conspiring with Rangers to deny Celtic the title
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WE are not amused
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WE are not Feck but FeckersRus (ioo).
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