General Betting
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Does anybody know if they declare how many people each year do not pay tax because they make a living from gambling ?
Before you ask, yes, they are after me
Before you ask, yes, they are after me
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Replies: 33
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They don't. Why are they after you?
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I banked some cash into my bank account, after 2 succesfull trips to Newmarket, and after winning a share of the Tote Jackpot back in 2007. They don't believe me. I am in a cash business and they think I have nicked it from the business.
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Ah ok. The problem you have is twofold. They don't accept that people win at gambling (1) and the tax law is the only law in the UK where you have to prove innocence and they don't have to prove guilt. You need proof which could be tricky and it is likely to come down to an analysis of your business and outgoings. They will look for irregular patterns.
(1) gambling means gambling it does not mean making profit on betfair. |
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I dont make money from Betfair, over the years it has cost me thousands, I'm not trying to convince them I am a pro gambler, I'm merely explaining to them honestly, that that is where the money came from.
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It won't be a gambling question as far as they are concerned, it will just be an investigation of your business and they won't believe or accept occasional winnings as an explanation. That is just how it is.
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They are also accustomed to the four stages of lengthy tax investigations
Denial Loss of memory Ill health Confession Get professional advice to minimise the pain. |
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Thanks Alex, I've got a meeting set up with my accountant in a few days. Wish me luck.
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I will, I have been there and done that many times, I hope it goes well for you.
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and after winning a share of the Tote Jackpot back in 2007.
======================================================================= How many "shared" the win? Was the full amount not paid by cheque? Who received the cheque...if this is how paid? Can person who received cheque from TOTE not produce bank statements showing this cheque being paid in....then showing amounts withdrawn to pay those sharing in pay out? Presumably the TOTE would give person who received cheque a letter proving payment was made? The "details" / documentation......should be produced to accountant, who will then have some "substance" to support the circumstances etc etc GL |
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Although its not relevant in this case, the Premium Charge portal lifetime profits is proof to IR if anyone makes a living through Betfair.
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My tote win was placed at my local Korals.My share was around £7,000. I asked to be paid in cash, I was.
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I believe that not paying tax is also the only way you can still go to prison for not paying a debt, but open to correction.
They have too much power imo. Also I believe that when a decision is made on tax owed, you can't appeal in court. Very odd. |
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Send the taxman to that Korals (seriously)
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Thats a good bit of advice Lori, thanks I will.
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That won't work Lori. HMRC will reckon that in 99.9% of cash gamblers money goes into the bookies and not out of the bookies. They are right too and it is probably best never to mention gambling (1) at all.
(1) gambling means gambling it does not mean making profit on betfair. |
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At least they can confirm a 7000 win existed for a small stake.
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You can say Coral by the way [;)]
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if you were gonna bank it why did you ask for cash?
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I only banked £500 of it.
The rest went into my gambling kitty. |
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The IR are after you because of a £500 deposit?
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4 x £500 deposits to be precise !
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Your story is changing, but we're still talking about a less than huge sum here. I wouldn't be too worried if I were you.
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only banked 500 of the cash - what was the point of that, 7% banked 93% not
where did the other 3 x 500 deposits come from? |
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TC - your reply is all a bit vague........and with that level of lack of "detail" you will be well up against it against Revenue.
Were the other ones who shared the win paid by cheque? If the bookie paid you "in cash" £7,000, then their records would be such , or should be, that they could give you a letter to confirm you were paid £7,000 in cash on a specific date. I know of someone who was paid in cash ( over £6,000 ) and they were promptly mugged later that day. So large amounts are paid in cash............and hopefully the manager of shop can arrange a letter for you to confirm facts. Without such "ammunition"/ documentation.......the Revenue just won't accept you won large amount etc from gambling. People claim this all the time.......and the majority of them are just lying. GL |
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OK, most of my punting is done on course with cash, and I hold quite a large float. I only bank the odd £500 a time to top up my bank account when it needs it. The Jackpot win was a 50p perm, total invested just over £200. My on course bets vary from between £20 and £500. I am far from being a pro, but I take my hobby seriously, and spend far too many hours a week studying form, and am very careful with my selections. I have had 1 losing year in the last 14, and that losing year I put down to being on tilt due to the break up of my marriage. The other £500 cash injections were after 2 succesfull trips to Newmarket, and one on line poker tournament, where I had a share in a friends action.
The day I won the Tote Jackpot was on April 23rd 2007.It was at Nottingham, and there was over £1,000,000 in the pot. I thought it was worth a punt, I was right ! It was the first time I had ever done the Jackpot. I first went to a local independant bookie who didn't have a tote terminal, so I went across the road to Corals. On the morning in question I put my selections up for all to see on the Chit chat Forum, and as the winners came in one by one, various chit chaterers were congratulating me. Come the last race I had 4 selections running for me, so I hedged off to cover my stake in case one of the four didn't win. I am happy to answer any more questions, I honestly have nothing to hide. |
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If BF would send you a copy of the CHIT CHAT forum post you made .....plus all the other posts on thread.......then this would "help" your case re winning that day.( would have thought they COULD do that for you).
It is not really as good as C O R A LS giving you a letter to confirm your win though ...."best" to try to obtain that! GL |
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give the tax man a copy of a forum thread
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# 23rd April 2008, not 2007.
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Hello ther TheCoat.
How come the Inland Revenue started investigating you in the first place? How do you think you got onto their radar? How come they have details of your bank account and all your transactions? Did they ask for it separately or did you have to include it in your tax return (I didn't think you included these things when you did tax returns but i don't run any kind of business so i wouldn't know)? Were you taking any liberties when doing your tax return for your business? Hope you don't mind the questions but you did say "I am happy to answer any more questions, I honestly have nothing to hide." |
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What is nature of your business TC?
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Hello UA.
HMRC has put extra resources into pursuing more tax. A 30% increase in new cases has been reported. They are looking to undertake a programme of business record checks believing poor record keeping results in underpaid tax. A new harsher penalty regime has been introduced for late filed returns, underpayments of tax and poor record keeping. I have been picked out of the hat, and was informed 12 months ago that I was going to be investigated.After going through my accounts, they asked to see all my private bank account statements. This is why they need an explaination for my cash payments. As far as I'm aware , my businesses books are squeaky clean, and I havn't done anything wrong. I have not been taking any liberties, If I was, my accountant would have let me know. |
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Pub, Hotel, Restaurant.
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Don't believe it will be a random check TC.
The nature of your business means they probably believe that your bottom line profit( if a profit) is too low for level of turnover. Hopefully you have made adequate provisions re "private" items like drinks/food / accommodation use/ car/s etc etc...................Your accountant/tax agent must have discussed this with you. If your tax return has not made adequate provisions, then likely this will give Revenue something to target........etc etc Your VAT returns may also be where they believe some of stats are looking out of kilter with other similar types business in your area etc etc Providing "evidence" re your win on TOTE is very important ......since you stated you told them this .......If you provide evidence to support the statement, then this lends some veracity to what you have told them etc etc GL |