General Betting
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Just e-mailed the following questions for LiveChat:
1. Is it not the case that premium charge payers are particularly badly hit by site outages?
Lets take the India-South Africa match on Saturday. I lay India for £4000 at 1.5, with the intention to trade out later, say at evens. The betfair site crashes. At bookmakers or another exchange, the price of India touches evens, and I back India for £3000 at evens. This should mean that I have a profit of +£1000 regardless of the outcome.
South Africa win the match. On Betfair I am already ahead for the week, so am charged a premium charge of 20% of the £4000 winnings on Betfair, which amounts to £800. As a result, I win only £200 (£3200 on Betfair minus the £3000 loss with the other exchange/bookie) instead of £1000 – the premium charge effectively amounts to 80% of my profit.
Bearing this in mind, would it not be fair to cancel the premium charge in any week where there is an outage?
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2. Betfair may have made significantly more than usual in commission on Saturday, with traders unable to trade out of positions and making bigger wins/losses than would otherwise be the case. Would it not be appropriate to refund all commission and cancel the premium charge for bets last week?
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3. I posted a question in General betting about whether bets for UK customers are now routed via Gibraltar in the same way that bets for non-UK customers are routed via Malta, and whether bets placed via the API and betfair UI are routed in the same way. I would be grateful for an answer?
1. Is it not the case that premium charge payers are particularly badly hit by site outages?
Lets take the India-South Africa match on Saturday. I lay India for £4000 at 1.5, with the intention to trade out later, say at evens. The betfair site crashes. At bookmakers or another exchange, the price of India touches evens, and I back India for £3000 at evens. This should mean that I have a profit of +£1000 regardless of the outcome.
South Africa win the match. On Betfair I am already ahead for the week, so am charged a premium charge of 20% of the £4000 winnings on Betfair, which amounts to £800. As a result, I win only £200 (£3200 on Betfair minus the £3000 loss with the other exchange/bookie) instead of £1000 – the premium charge effectively amounts to 80% of my profit.
Bearing this in mind, would it not be fair to cancel the premium charge in any week where there is an outage?
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2. Betfair may have made significantly more than usual in commission on Saturday, with traders unable to trade out of positions and making bigger wins/losses than would otherwise be the case. Would it not be appropriate to refund all commission and cancel the premium charge for bets last week?
--
3. I posted a question in General betting about whether bets for UK customers are now routed via Gibraltar in the same way that bets for non-UK customers are routed via Malta, and whether bets placed via the API and betfair UI are routed in the same way. I would be grateful for an answer?
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So you are complaining that the site crash caused you to win more money because you couldn't trade out? And now you want our sympathy, and demand compensation for this?
Mr Magoo seems a very appropriate choice of nickname for you.
You should have read my post properly instead of demonstrating your ignorance.
You should have read my post properly instead of demonstrating your ignorance.
How has the user won more money due to the crash?
If he had traded out on Betfair, he would have had £1,000 green whatever. His PC would therefore only be £200, so his gross winnings would have been £800 and not the £200.
N.B. As someone who was directly affected by this (albeit on a much smaller scale) it sure irks that PC gets charged in such a way.
My only advice would have been to take the PC into account when laying off.
If instead of placing £3,000 at evens, you had placed say £2,400 then if India win, you win £2,400 from the bookmaker and lose £2,000 on Betfair. However, the next £2,060 earned would be PC free saving £412 (Assuming you continue to profit on BF), giving a net win of £812.
If you had won on Betfair then you earn £4,000 - £2,400 but have a £800 premium charge bill so only win in effect £800.
Not entirely sure those calcs are exactly correct as that would give a better outcome than trading on BF but I hope the point makes sense.
If he had traded out on Betfair, he would have had £1,000 green whatever. His PC would therefore only be £200, so his gross winnings would have been £800 and not the £200.
N.B. As someone who was directly affected by this (albeit on a much smaller scale) it sure irks that PC gets charged in such a way.
My only advice would have been to take the PC into account when laying off.
If instead of placing £3,000 at evens, you had placed say £2,400 then if India win, you win £2,400 from the bookmaker and lose £2,000 on Betfair. However, the next £2,060 earned would be PC free saving £412 (Assuming you continue to profit on BF), giving a net win of £812.
If you had won on Betfair then you earn £4,000 - £2,400 but have a £800 premium charge bill so only win in effect £800.
Not entirely sure those calcs are exactly correct as that would give a better outcome than trading on BF but I hope the point makes sense.
Mr Magoo why dont u try putting on your reading glasses
the OP has a legitimate point.
a further anomaly is, if it had been the other way round (ie the betfair half of the trade) had been the loser, he would have profited from the outage, as that whole loss would have counted against PC on other wins.
yet somebody in that position gains just as much from the "compensation" scheme as the OP. in fact, they benefit more because their bank hasn't been reduced by the PC, so they have more to bet commission free with.
a further anomaly is, if it had been the other way round (ie the betfair half of the trade) had been the loser, he would have profited from the outage, as that whole loss would have counted against PC on other wins.
yet somebody in that position gains just as much from the "compensation" scheme as the OP. in fact, they benefit more because their bank hasn't been reduced by the PC, so they have more to bet commission free with.
Behave Wonga, you can't be serious.
You have to take pc into account when you bet with other bookies/exchanges.
If that scenario happened and you backed 3k with the bookies(good luck with that) you are a total plank.
Far better to refund the 'implied comm' betfair are so keen on - on days like saturday imo
You have to take pc into account when you bet with other bookies/exchanges.
If that scenario happened and you backed 3k with the bookies(good luck with that) you are a total plank.
Far better to refund the 'implied comm' betfair are so keen on - on days like saturday imo
The real moaner's analysis is correct in the circumstance where i am ahead and continue to win in the week. In this case it seems a loss on betfair would reduce my premium charge liability.
The problem would come if I was breakeven in a particular week, on the premium charge borderline for the week, or had no other bets. In that case, winning on Betfair would incur a premium charge, whilst losing on Betfair would not reduce my premium charge liability (since I wouldn't pay any premium charges that week anyway). In that case the problem I described would still occur.
The problem would come if I was breakeven in a particular week, on the premium charge borderline for the week, or had no other bets. In that case, winning on Betfair would incur a premium charge, whilst losing on Betfair would not reduce my premium charge liability (since I wouldn't pay any premium charges that week anyway). In that case the problem I described would still occur.
The rather curious result is that having more success earlier in the week reduces the impact of the outage, while having a breakeven/borderline week means that you encounter the problems I described. As a result, the idea of no premium charge in weeks when a significant outage occurs is one that should be considered, and could be made part of a Service Level Agreement.
In any case, I still believe it would be more appropriate to refund premium charges / commission for last week when the outage occured, rather than have no commission in selected markets this week. betfair would have made increased commission revenue as a result of people not being able to trade out of large positions, and it just doesn't seem right.
In any case, I still believe it would be more appropriate to refund premium charges / commission for last week when the outage occured, rather than have no commission in selected markets this week. betfair would have made increased commission revenue as a result of people not being able to trade out of large positions, and it just doesn't seem right.
Thank you for joining last week to tell us all this crucial information, wonga.
I would take the join dates with a pinch of salt in most cases noodles.
curlywurly - i think he's saying he was forced to close out the position offsite by the outage,so couldn't have factored PC into his calculations when opening it.
tbh, there's no non-messy solution to the problem this kind of outage causes. that's why avoiding them should be the number one priority.
tbh, there's no non-messy solution to the problem this kind of outage causes. that's why avoiding them should be the number one priority.
Maybe, but he can (and obviously should) in closing it as the real moaner suggests.
Not ideal obviously but hardly a real complaint considering what some people were faced with
In any case pc payers would be the absolute last people to receive any bonus
Not ideal obviously but hardly a real complaint considering what some people were faced with
In any case pc payers would be the absolute last people to receive any bonus
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