Suspend the markets, Shutdown the API and betfair lite IMMEDIATELY

Signed

quite simply if the problem only lies with the presentation layer of your website (which seems to be the most likely explanation for what we've seen this afternoon), you either have to have some sort of failover, or if are unprepared to offer it, you do not expose your least technically sophisticated users to your sluggishness to act.

i have been on here long enough to know that unscheduled downtime (or crashes) is a frustrating but inevitable occurence. pisspoor handling of these downtimes should not still be happening.

Today is the first time I've ever phoned to complain and it cost me far less than some of the others.

The difference is that today was not my fault, there was no overexposure or anything like that, it was simply that I couldn't cancel a bet that other people could match.

If I have a huge position and the site crashes and I can't lay off, that's at least in part, my fault. It's also impossible to determine what I would have done won/lost in that scenario.

However having a lay up that is taken because someone can access the site via a backdoor is unacceptable.

the very fact that they wilfully bring down lite and the API, despite the fact that they are working, is betfair's acknowledgement that the scenario you describe should not be happening.

a gap of ten to twenty seconds is probably just about acceptable. 5 to 10 minutes is not.

I have no idea if bets are being taken or have been taken, while 'normal' people can't access the services, AGAIN. This is just so very very annoying.

I had bets taken on football while the site was down  e.g 2.30 pm

Ok I think they did learn some lessons, I'll give them credit for that, when markets came back up they were suspended that's a very large step in the right direction, perhaps means better procedures in place.

But still not happy. I'm lucky enough to not be down, now scared to try again.

i think you are all too kind, i think they have completely lost there way, its not a trading site anymore its an amusement arcade, im waiting for the virtual candy floss machine, im just getting bored now cant be bothered to moan anymore, goodnight

Internet design has gotten out of hand as well as the pipeline is getting clogged from users and the amount of data they need (i.e. a friggin' USELESS spinning clock with live scores EVERY friggin' time I launch the site).

Just met someone this week.  Building a site using java scipt to get flash effects.  Tested it side by side with flash.  Smooth as silk.

Back to basics, people.

i'm pretty convinced that it's not too long until software developments across a range of traditional mature IT business areas becomes unjustified in terms of added functionality versus upgrade cost and retraining.

it will take a handful of major companies to turn around to their vendors and tell them to suck their fecking balls and keep supporting old versions rather than pay for the cost of their new versions with little real benefit and massive financial downsides

i'll say this again.............REDUNDACY, the rest is just c*rap talk

think of airplanes, nuclear plants, etc, etc

i would suppose this here is a bit less exigent than any of the examples i just gave

no excuses, they are either incompetents or its some sort of scam, simples

the backbone of the IT industry is to "upgrade" and "improve"; it's becoming an entirely self-serving ideal.

DStyle that sort of stuff is largely happening. How many business are still happy to use XP, an ... 8-9 year old operating system, even though Windows is now 2 versions down the line? They see no real benefit in upgrading, and they're right.

Window versions are small beer compared to some of the major package and DB vendors.

signed.

when the main site fails, all markets should suspend and all unmatched bets (including keepbets) on events that have started should be voided before they're unsuspended.

I can't believe that even needs saying.

of course...what is happening is purely a license to steal

If betfair had a betting shop with one till taking bets they wouldn't even ask the old lady with 30 slips totalling a fiver to stand aside for a minute when a race was about to go off.

Viva, when it failed today Lite still worked so after being burned last time by bets being taken I was on cancelling bets on kick offs that were remotely soon in case it happened again. But I THINK they were suspending markets to avoid bets being taken when it was down .. well they were suspended when they came back up anyway, which is far more controlled than last time, and if that's the case, that's some progress.

I want a big button I can press on backup.betfair.com called 'cancel all unmatched bets and tell me what's matched so I can cry'..

i wonder if it would it surprise you feck, that as a someone who makes a living betting on tennis matches in play, i would be in favour of a more aggressive transaction charge policy

No, it wouldn't surprise me DStyle.

1. site crashes
2. take the site down
3. fix the problem
4. bring the site back up

vs

1. site crashes
2. take the site down.
3. hit computer with hammer.
4. bring the site up
5. goto 1

incidentally feck, do you therefore accept, that in in-play markets there are plenty of long to medium term value seeking position takers who are not strictly betting outright, but are not profiting (or profiteering as you would have it) from technological nuances over very short time intervals.

i will happily accept that i have an inherent commission advantage over constructing implied bets in an outright market, rather than being forced to bet on isolated events in specific markets.

incidentally feck, do you therefore accept, that in in-play markets there are plenty of long to medium term value seeking position takers who are not strictly betting outright, but are not profiting (or profiteering as you would have it) from technological nuances over very short time intervals.

Yes, but I've never lumped such people in with traders anyway.

i struggle to understand you're beef with contrarian's point on the other thread then. surely, as he says, it's a matter of degrees

*your beef

Degrees as in what DStyle? Opinion in odds versus queue info leeching and shell and pea operating?

but it's not that black and white is it?

let's look at contrarian's example where he backs for 5k at 1.42 and lays it off at 1.44

imagine it's a tennis match. he backs at 1.42 with the dog serving, anticipating a break of serve, no break comes, favourite holds and he implements a stop loss at 1.44 after the hold.

the implied bet is a three-way bet between a break in immediate game against the dog, versus two holds, versus a hold and the favourite broken.

that's the same as two outright backs in the game betting markets (with appropriate stakes). i happily agree that the with the way the site works, you'd be a loon to get involved in the game betting markets because you'd be taking the commission hit on both individual markets, rather than just commission on net P&L across a single market.

back to my thread, i do think there should be an increased premium and designated channel for high volume users. should any overuse of the site be anticipated this channel should immediately be shut down.

DStyle - high volume users pay in data charges, you know that don't you?

And secondly given the timing of todays 8pm (or was it 9) outage, I VERY much doubt horse raising enthusiasts hammering betfair with in race data demands were the cause.

imagine it's a tennis match. he backs at 1.42 with the dog serving, anticipating a break of serve, no break comes, favourite holds and he implements a stop loss at 1.44 after the hold.

You think someone betting on the basis that a serve may be broken is a good example of a leeching middleman DStyle?

i do just checking, plenty of high volume users are not identified and even those that are recognised don't pay even remotely enough.

more transactions than the FTSE? Jesus wept! Oracle's trailblazing client for the most transactions, that's got to tell you something. if you're bleeding the edge of the world's leading RDBMS package provider, the cost for supporting that should not be spread across the entire client base.

imagine it's a tennis match. he backs at 1.42 with the dog serving, anticipating a break of serve, no break comes, favourite holds and he implements a stop loss at 1.44 after the hold.

You think someone betting on the basis that a serve may be broken is a good example of a leeching middleman DStyle?

that's speculative in the extreme feck. would it be fine if they were betting on the game betting markets - without any quick pics or technology advantage?

you look at the kerfuffle that insued when they restructured the API requests with loads of people sh1tting their proverbial pantaloons until they introduced new services to handle it. what cost to the back-end though?

that's speculative in the extreme feck. would it be fine if they were betting on the game betting markets - without any quick pics or technology advantage?

?

It was your example DStyle.

no, you're missing the point. two outright bets on separate game betting markets cannot possibly be construed as shell and pea merchant activity.

"more transactions than the FTSE? Jesus wept! Oracle's trailblazing client for the most transactions"
Really DStyle? To be actually accessing a database though, that would imply CHANGING bets not asking about markets.
Surely nobody is doing lots of tiny bets? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.

BF will know who is using their servers most for what and I'm sure will be charging appropriately.
We live in the youtube age where the amount of data servers can dish up is unimaginable compared to 10 years ago.

To be actually accessing a database though, that would imply CHANGING bets not asking about markets.

no it wouldn't

no, you're missing the point. two outright bets on separate game betting markets cannot possibly be construed as shell and pea merchant activity.

Where did I say they did. All I said was how many traders base their opening shot on the hope that a serve will be broken? I said it was a bad example of a trade.

heavy reading is probably accompanied by heavy DML loads with unmatched/cancelled bets.

All I said was how many traders base their opening shot on the hope that a serve will be broken? I said it was a bad example of a trade.


plenty i would imagine

DStyle I know they certainly cache stuff, as I (and probably you!) have seen it go wrong and see old and new data flash back and forth. If what you say about oracle is true etc I can only imagine they actually have some pretty switched on guys kicking around, which makes you wonder. The evidence though of crashing today at very non peak times is pretty wierd.

daily rate for a top dollar oracle consultant for the most demanding installation in the world?

I have no knowledge of tennis betting DStyle. If the sole reason for betting is based on current odds and possible overreaction to a break I don't have a problem with it.