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General Betting
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20 Oct 10
13:19
Joined:
Date Joined:
14 Aug 07
If you have a profitable level stakes system and are a PC payer , are you better off using another exchange for that system? The obvious answer seems to be yes as you will be paying a lot more in commission/PC on BF than you would on another exchange.
However the extra commission paid on the system bets will reduce the amount of PC due overall. How do you work out how this reduction affects your PC liabilities? I guess the amount you turnover to make a profit on the system will determine how much it affects your PC payments? So your ROI figure on the system will be important.
Can anybody shed any light on this for me.
However the extra commission paid on the system bets will reduce the amount of PC due overall. How do you work out how this reduction affects your PC liabilities? I guess the amount you turnover to make a profit on the system will determine how much it affects your PC payments? So your ROI figure on the system will be important.
Can anybody shed any light on this for me.
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Replies: 16
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The best way is to avoid going into PC territory in the first place if you can help it I should imagine.
If you are betting on the most popular sports (and not inplay) you might get away with betting on another exchange but otherwise the liquidity would probably be questionable. My preferred course of action would be to research a method that would throw up pretty much an even return over a long period and run that alongside your profitable bets to bring you up to the required commission rate. OK it may fluctuate here and there but should see you right in the long run. |
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You would be better of doing the profitable level stake system on Betfair if this system generate more than roughly 23 % of it's gross profit in commission to Betfair and it is your other activity on Betfair that has put you into PC land.
However , if the profitable level stake system is your main activity on Betfair and is the reason why you have to pay PC - You would be better off doing the system another place, off course with the assumption that you will get your bets matched at the other place. |
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Why do most folk have a problem getting their head around a very obvious dilemma and try to overcomplicate a simple problem ?
There is no liquidity elsewhere . Thats why you end up in 'pc land' , bets get matched on here . |
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i use another site for pre-race bets.....say you want a bet at 6, and the horse is currently trading @ 5.5, you will get matched at 6 on the other site IF the horse goes to 6.2 on Betfair. 99% of the time, you'll get matched as there is an arb bot at work between these sites.
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There is no liquidity elsewhere
I'm a pre race horse racing layer and I can asure you I can get matched at betfair prices or sometimes better on the daq, the markets are weak early doors though but so is betfair these days if you have a better than average week that soon puts you into PC territory on here, all that about lifetime P/L is bullshit its calculated every week, the games hard enough just for pure gamblers so no reason to stop here a unless IR punter |
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Suely if you have a level stakes system returning anyhing like a normal return on turnover, you will not be close to paying PC as your overall charges ( actual and implied) should be well in excess of the 20% PC threshold.
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Okay, just to clarify a few things -
My main activity on BF is trading in and out of in-running sports markets. The profit from this is the reason I pay PC. I am not running this system to avoid/lower PC - it is a system that stands on its own and has made a profit in 3 of the last 4 years. Liquidity on the purple site is not a problem for getting these bets matched. I have run it sucessfully for the last 2 years on there and will continue to do so unless I can work out that I am better off doing it on BF. Eddie the Eagle - its interesting what you say about the 23% commission/profits equation. If what you say is the case then I would have only been above that once with the system. However, I also had 1 losing year so I am assuming this would also have benefitted me by doing it on BF that year? So in 2 of the 4 years, I would have been better off on here? |
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If you don't bet in running, and stick to the major markets, the other site is fine. If not, you are in trouble and have no choice but to get stung here.
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In running elsewhere is only fine for things like match odds or a high profile cricket / tennis match, try looking at the smaller markets like correct score for example and its a total waste of time, huge gaps make it unplayable.
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J R, if you have run the profitable level stake system for 4 years on one of them has been a losing year - I think it's impossible that you have paid less than 23 % of gross profit on average over the 4 years.
You would probably therefore be better off doing the system here as it most likely would lower your PC payments. However it is possible that you would have to pay more PC this way in the beginning if you were "unlucky" enough to start off here with a higher strike rate on your system than what it averages. |
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Judge Roughneck Joined: 14 Aug 07
If you have a profitable level stakes system and are a PC payer , are you better off using another exchange for that system? The obvious answer seems to be yes as you will be paying a lot more in commission/PC on BF than you would on another exchange. Purely based on mathematics the answer is almost certainly NO! (unless the other exchange is offering as good or a better price after commission) in which case by all means bet there. The PC is in practicality much closer to a charge on turnover than profit. SO... if you can get £10 on something here for every £1 you can get at the same price there its obvious where you should be concentrating your efforts although once again there's nothing stopping you taking the £1 there first. If you are feeling philanthropic then by all means put more money there as I think its for the common good of everyone that there is at least one other feasible competitive exchange. |
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Eddie
I just did a quick tally and the comission paid over the 4 years equalled just over 18% of gross profits. So based on that you are saying that I should place the bets elsewhere? (as my comission paid is less than 23% of gross profits). Clydebank I am unsure what you are saying here: SO... if you can get £10 on something here for every £1 you can get at the same price there its obvious where you should be concentrating your efforts although once again there's nothing stopping you taking the £1 there first. You seem to be implying that I am better off on BF as that is where the money is (£10 to £1) rather than it being better for me from a PC point of view - unless I am misunderstanding? Just to re-iterate: I have no problems getting matched for the amounts I want (at the moment) on the purple site. |
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I've been trying to work this out but I think the intricacies of the PC are beating me!
Eddies assertion that "You would be better of doing the profitable level stake system on Betfair if this system generate more than roughly 23 % of it's gross profit in commission to Betfair and it is your other activity on Betfair that has put you into PC land." Seems logical to me but I can't work it out correctly. Does anybody else concur with what he is saying? Clydebank seems to be saying that I am better off using BF whatever the circumstances so I am still unsure of the best way forward. Anybody else have any views on this? |
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Anybody?
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Look man it's really simple.
Calculate the PC charges as a loss ... then calculate how much money you would have made betting somewhere else and stay at the more profitable place ... that's if you can't run concurrenlty. If you win a thousand quid less 23 percent it's still pretty good money. Posting similar bets at the competition will ensure that you start creating liquidity there which can enable you to switch at some stage. |
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