General Betting
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Long story short, I own a fair few BF shares.
I am wondering what people think is the best course to take with these.
On one hand: good company, great product, well run, profitable, debt free, good development and IT team, emerging markets, new revenue possibilities LMAX, takeover possibilities etc etc
On other hand: P/E seems toppy, legal/regulatory issues, room for growth?, increased competition, will BF ultimately end up having to jack up comm? is the valuation simply too high given the hurdles it faces ahead?
Not really in need of the money so wouldnt be selling for that reason alone. Still, don;t want to be sitting a stock that's illiquid and doesnt trade, either - or worse still, tanks.
I am wondering what people think is the best course to take with these.
On one hand: good company, great product, well run, profitable, debt free, good development and IT team, emerging markets, new revenue possibilities LMAX, takeover possibilities etc etc
On other hand: P/E seems toppy, legal/regulatory issues, room for growth?, increased competition, will BF ultimately end up having to jack up comm? is the valuation simply too high given the hurdles it faces ahead?
Not really in need of the money so wouldnt be selling for that reason alone. Still, don;t want to be sitting a stock that's illiquid and doesnt trade, either - or worse still, tanks.
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Hemingway - A little surprised you're asking on here or indeed need to ask if you don't need the money. All i would say is that personally i would be cashing in if i'd been shrewd enough to buy in at the start. Only wish i had.
See how the subscriptions go, if well I'd work out a figure that you'd be happy to sell. Stick to it.
£14-16 is the talked about price. If it got to £19 I'd get out and buy yourself a nice house ;)
£14-16 is the talked about price. If it got to £19 I'd get out and buy yourself a nice house ;)
Hemingway
I really think it come down to what you belive betfair is...Is betfair bookmaker/gambling company or is betfair a a dotcom company, in which case the high P/E value isn't so high...Also Hemingway, do you belive betfair use of the profits (your money) over the last 5 years, has this added value to betfair...betfair is sitiing on 150 mil in cash, that it could pay to shareholders
15mil buying of TimeForm
25mil buying of pokerchamps
50mill buying of TVG
it hard to work out if betfair use of shareholders money is or isn't adding value
I really think it come down to what you belive betfair is...Is betfair bookmaker/gambling company or is betfair a a dotcom company, in which case the high P/E value isn't so high...Also Hemingway, do you belive betfair use of the profits (your money) over the last 5 years, has this added value to betfair...betfair is sitiing on 150 mil in cash, that it could pay to shareholders
15mil buying of TimeForm
25mil buying of pokerchamps
50mill buying of TVG
it hard to work out if betfair use of shareholders money is or isn't adding value
Hemingway, you know the issues. Whatever you do, do enough of the opposite to fend off regret. If you cash out, hold onto enough to be the owner of 'the world's leading gaming company' if that comes about.
The regulatory issues wd give me pause. Bf got off the ground in practically the only country to have betting carried out through licensed private bookmakers. Whenever you have a racing and bloodstock industry funded by a prim-mutuel system, ask y/s what wd induce the industry to switch to a low-margin, low-taxation model?
The thing you don't say is that bf has no customer loyalty. No Big Mac habitue thinks Big Mac has the best food. Bf's big liquidity providers are only here for the liquidity/prices.
The regulatory issues wd give me pause. Bf got off the ground in practically the only country to have betting carried out through licensed private bookmakers. Whenever you have a racing and bloodstock industry funded by a prim-mutuel system, ask y/s what wd induce the industry to switch to a low-margin, low-taxation model?
The thing you don't say is that bf has no customer loyalty. No Big Mac habitue thinks Big Mac has the best food. Bf's big liquidity providers are only here for the liquidity/prices.
I own a fair few BF shares.
Not really in need of the money
I am wondering what people think
Jeez! I'm more interested in what you think, to be honest!
Not really in need of the money
I am wondering what people think
Jeez! I'm more interested in what you think, to be honest!
you are an original shareholder but you didnt join the BF forum until Nov 03?
Personally if you are not bull**** I'd assume the market prices it up correctly. Then it comes down to what proportion of your wealth is tied up in the shares. If it's high then selling is an absolute no brainer. There maybe a question of whether to sell at the initial offering stage or when they become public, on the basis that there mebbe an element of expected returns for the early institutional investors. I'd seek advice on this. All that remains is deciding how many of them to sell balancing risk with tax issues, specifically CGT.
Then again I'd expect BF to providing this sought of advice to it's shareholders considering many of em probably work for the company.
Then again I'd expect BF to providing this sought of advice to it's shareholders considering many of em probably work for the company.
betfair will not be giving any advice to it's shareholders on tax ..also, im sure many of betfair shareholder are not from UK anyway
Hemingway
You are either a) extremely far-sighted and shrewd in which case you don't need advice b)extremely lucky in which case whatever you do will work out for the best anyway c)a bul-s**tt*r in which case any advice is a waste of time.
If you really do need advice my terms are 2% management fee and 20% of any profit achieved after 2 years.
You are either a) extremely far-sighted and shrewd in which case you don't need advice b)extremely lucky in which case whatever you do will work out for the best anyway c)a bul-s**tt*r in which case any advice is a waste of time.
If you really do need advice my terms are 2% management fee and 20% of any profit achieved after 2 years.
d) an early employee who got shares as part of a pay package
e) an acquaintance of the founders who was persuaded to invest
e) an acquaintance of the founders who was persuaded to invest
Fair replies. I was employed there. Not early enough to get really cheap (or free) shares, sadly, but got in at a fair level i guess. That said, if £15 is the float price i won't be making anything to get excited about tbh. I am procuded from discussing the matter of the float in any detail as part of the shareholder document that just arrived at my home though, so in hindsight I shouldnt have posted this..though I genuinely didn't know that when i posted as I was on my holidays at the time and hadn;t seen my post!Sorry BF!
Thanks and goodnight.
Thanks and goodnight.
Money Morning reckons it's a bad deal
.
http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/betfair-ipo-share-tips-ladbrokes-03901.aspx
Scroll down to Why you should avoid Betfair
.
http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/betfair-ipo-share-tips-ladbrokes-03901.aspx
Scroll down to Why you should avoid Betfair
sell and but it into bwin Interactive Entertainm.AG Inhaber-Aktien o.N.
Interesting development tonight. Having assumed (and the whisper number confirmed) a price range of between £14-18 I see today that a rival betting company have priced up Under £2.60 at 8/11 as the initial share price offer.
Now, after I fell off my seat I thought 'nah, they miust be planning a stock split for existing shareholders' but then I was reminded that part of the IPO terms is that no 'new shares' will be issued and no new money raised.
Would a split of stock already held constitute additional shares though? I would have assumed so as I could then simply sell these additional shares into the open market?? Confused...and a tad worried tbh.
Now, after I fell off my seat I thought 'nah, they miust be planning a stock split for existing shareholders' but then I was reminded that part of the IPO terms is that no 'new shares' will be issued and no new money raised.
Would a split of stock already held constitute additional shares though? I would have assumed so as I could then simply sell these additional shares into the open market?? Confused...and a tad worried tbh.
Hemingway , wasn't betfair AGM today?
bookies betting on betfair prices is just bullsh!t, don't worry about what price they put up
a stock split would not be extra shares...having one $10 note and now having ten $1 notes is still just $10
bookies betting on betfair prices is just bullsh!t, don't worry about what price they put up
a stock split would not be extra shares...having one $10 note and now having ten $1 notes is still just $10
Well todays the day Hemingway....you can plan your early retirement fund. 
No major suprise here. They'll go mid range around £12.50 I guess. Masserati suddenly a million.
so betfair will start trading on 27 Oct
Admission is expected to occur and unconditional dealings in the Shares are expected to commence on or around 27 October 2010.
Admission is expected to occur and unconditional dealings in the Shares are expected to commence on or around 27 October 2010.
nairda Joined: 05 Jan 07
Replies: 444 07 Oct 10 09:58
so whats the date for when betfair prospectus come out?
Today
Replies: 444 07 Oct 10 09:58
so whats the date for when betfair prospectus come out?
Today
Dont know, want to get hold of a copy myself.
if you google "betfair prospectus", theres loads of results saying that the prospectus is being released today.
if you google "betfair prospectus", theres loads of results saying that the prospectus is being released today.
Has anyone got the prospectus yet?
What does it say? What does it say? Oh the excitement!!!
How many shares are us customers (who have obviously put them where they are now), going to get?
This is more exciting than the Halifax flotation and look what has happened to them.
What does it say?
Oh come on!! I can't hold my breath any longer.
What does it say???
What does it say? What does it say? Oh the excitement!!!
How many shares are us customers (who have obviously put them where they are now), going to get?
This is more exciting than the Halifax flotation and look what has happened to them.
What does it say?
Oh come on!! I can't hold my breath any longer.
What does it say???
prospectus is out..but you're right, customers get sh!t
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/8049450/Betfair-chief-David-Yu-discloses-heart-problem-in-floatation-prospectus.html
The flotation prospectus handed to potential investors yesterday notes that David Yu, 42, "was absent from work for a brief period in March 2010 with a cardiological complaint".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/8049450/Betfair-chief-David-Yu-discloses-heart-problem-in-floatation-prospectus.html
The flotation prospectus handed to potential investors yesterday notes that David Yu, 42, "was absent from work for a brief period in March 2010 with a cardiological complaint".
look like all 10% of betfair shares has already been sold , so the IPO prices look to be close to 14 then to 11
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/705396b2-d2cb-11df-9166-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss
Betfair, the peer-to-peer internet gambling exchange, has attracted enough investor interest to complete its £1.48bn London stock market listing, only a day after officially starting marketing for the deal.
Bankers working on the Betfair listing sent a message to their sales desks on Friday morning to say that the order book for the deal had been covered, people close to the deal said
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/705396b2-d2cb-11df-9166-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss
Betfair, the peer-to-peer internet gambling exchange, has attracted enough investor interest to complete its £1.48bn London stock market listing, only a day after officially starting marketing for the deal.
Bankers working on the Betfair listing sent a message to their sales desks on Friday morning to say that the order book for the deal had been covered, people close to the deal said
Early expressions of interest from investors have come in across the £11-£14 a share range, with some pledged to buy their allocation of shares at whatever final price the company’s advisers set
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