Anybody else who keeps getting 0.01p bets matched

Get it all the time, have passed it on to Betfair before but not sure they've followed it up with any vigour.

Bots are doing this presumably .....Has happened a number of times in CS market on FOOTBALL...where say you

are trying to  back 2 pounds at say certain odds......your bet appears but within seconds someone nibbles off a 1p and your  2 pounds disappears from screen.......trying to get you to put on another 2 pounds etc etc

B loo dy bots !

i find it in markets with odds 1.4-1.5

0.01p staked to win 0p. which means somebody will win 1p if the bet wins but lose nothing if it doesn't

Rocket to the FACE     16 Aug 10 13:51 
i find it in markets with odds 1.4-1.5

0.01p staked to win 0p. which means somebody will win 1p if the bet wins but lose nothing if it doesn't


1p layers at those odds cannot fail to make money and you cannot fail to lose money.  Betfair should suspend their accounts if it continues after their first warning and I thought that they were hot on this.

Used to offer odds on top 5 and 10 in golf and had many 1p matched.

Realised that someone was placing an invisable £1.99 ahead of my
bets.

Usual response from Betfair--"we take rule bending very seriously
and will look into it" --and end up doing f*ck all.

We can't all throw fivers around.

just to confirm................matched 1p

Somebody spends a huge amount of time laying all possible outcomes in markets for £0.01
at 1.49 and because of the way betfair is set up this bet cannot lose and can only win. I've complained about this a number of times and it keeps geting referred to the Betfair fraud unit who either can't understand the issue or think that it's not worth the effort to sort out.

This has happened to me before (although not that often).
I feel this is low on the list of things for them to sort out.
There are some very basic and straightforward ways to improve the site. The recent small change with the my account and total available box is a step in the right direction.

Betfair have a thread called 'you talk we listen'. They should set up a program to implement user suggested changes. Some are so basic that it defies belief that a massive company like Betfair have not got around to this.

It costs very little for them to make these basic improvements and the payoff relative to the cost will be enormous.

I BET YOUR THE TYPE WHO PEEPS FROM BEHIND YOUR LACE CURTAINS TO SEE WHAT THE NEIGHBOURS ARE DOING

GET A LIFE

YOUVE REPORTED THEM TO BETFAIR ,HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF FLOWER ARRANGE IF YOUVE NOTHING ELSE BETTER TO DO

I BET YOU GO TO THE POLICE STATION ,WHEN SOME CHILD CHALKS ON THE FOOTPATH

GET YOUR GARDEN SPRINKLER OUT ,AND SHOW YOUR NEIGHBOURS HOW ASTOOT YOU ARE

I think the 1000-1 1p matcher is BF's own (cross matching) skimbot.  I don't object to getting matched at 1000 for something which should be 50-1 but I do think it gives us an unlevel playing field.

Minimum bet abuse only seems to apply to finger tapping punters.  Bots and especially BF's own skimbot are clearly exempt from this rule.

As for the 1.99 punters who stick up the invisible bets, I don't get what's so hard for BF to write some code that pics it up and deals with it automatically.

For the site to work it has to be perceived to be fair and it is in all interests to stop this practice every bit as much as trap betting.

And Do wah diddy, wtf are you shouting about? Haven't you got anything else better to do?

If you were to lay every increment from 1.49 @ 0.01p all the way down to 1.01 @ 49p you would have a free bet of £2.06.

Downside is that there are so many levels to enter that you would struggle to do it manually.

I guess someone out there will have a bot that does it but, either way, if you laid the field, keep in running, in a horse race you would dead easily be placing more than 1000 bets per hour so you then would be hammered with transaction charges
at 0.01p per hit!!!

1.01 I BET YOU DISAPROOVE OF GARDEN KNOMES IN PEOPLES GARDENS

THERES PEOPLE TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET AND BAN THE NUCLEAR BOMB,THERE TRYING TO MAKE THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD TAKE NOTICE

AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS PLEAD WITH BETFAIR TO STOP PEOPLE BETTING IN PENNIES

BOB GELDOLF ISNT DOING MUCH THESE DAYS ,SEE IF HES AVAILABLE TO GET A 24 HOUR POP CONCERT TOGETHER TO MAKE THE WORLD AWARE OF THESE PENNY GAMBLERS

MAYBE YOU COULD GET BONEO TO BE YOUR LIASSON OFFICER WITH THE UNITED NATIONS


BONEO IS THE LEAD SINGER WITH U 2 AND NOT THE DOG IN THE SIMPSONS

I KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING THERES NO DOG IN THE SIMPSONS,THATS RIGHT I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IM SAYING

Aunty Post Joined: 14 Nov 03
Replies: 517 17 Aug 10 11:05   

I guess someone out there will have a bot that does it but, either way, if you laid the field, keep in running, in a horse race you would dead easily be placing more than 1000 bets per hour so you then would be hammered with transaction charges
at 0.01p per hit!!! 


But only if you did it all off the one account?

simple mind:
Realised that someone was placing an invisable £1.99 ahead of my
bets.

I enter my bets in EUR, minumum bet size for me is 2 EUR. I cannot see my own 2 EUR bet in market, if I place a unmatched bet ahead if all other bets. To make a small bet in EUR visible, stake must be approx 2.50 EUR.

Sorry, but then I do a "slow" greenout with unmatched lay bets, I am happy if stake is above 2 EUR, so that I can place the bet.

A very good and well considered point Rocket!

Next time I will split them over my 3 accounts! [;)]

See it a lot in tennis markets. Usually from 1.49 all the way down to 1.01. Penny a time. Equivalent to getting matched at 2.0 for a penny but no liability. Its not betfair, just someone after some free money.

Doesn't exactly put a dent in profits, but the intention of the bets is clear and it should be stopped.

i used to do that about 5 years ago and i got an email warning me to stop.
if u lay below 1.24 i think u cud do 2 cent bets for no risk.

1.49 > 1.25  1p x 25 = 25p

1.24 > 1.17  2p x 8 =  16p

1.16 > 1.13  3p x 4 =  12p

1.12 > 1.10  4p x 2 =  08p

1.09 > 1.08  5p x 1 =  05p

1.08 > 1.07  6p x 1 =  06p

1.07 > 1.06  7p x 1 =  07p

1.06 > 1.05  8p x 1 +  08p

Sorry..... I was bored but I'm even more bored now.....

Just continue to  1.01 @ 49p and you have a nice
free bet  of £2.06..............


..........and  probably a lifetime ban!

Why don't betfair calculate your balance and bet returns to say 4 decimal places?  This would basically fix this issue.

Fixtures 19 August / AIK v Levski Sofia / Match Odds       Levski Sofia      Lay       11841162368       19-Aug-10
05:22           2.52     0.01         2.52     19-Aug-10 05:22 [>o]

well done you got a free bet

No, i was trying to lay @2.52
I had a 2p liability on it

2p liability to win 1p?

Something like that, it wasn't 0p anyway. It's all been matched now so it doesn't really matter.

Why did you post it in here then? There's nothing dodgy about it.

It's just annoying that's all. Say the price drifts and every time i move my bet up a tick or so, i get another 1p matched, i could end up with a string of 1p bets with a 2p liability on each, so i'd be effectively laying @3 when the real price is 2.52

Lol. Look at the graph for both players on the Fish v Murray match.
All prices from 1.49 downwards have a 0.01p waiting for them.

As Aunty Post points out above, the 'layer' has shrewdly increased this so that 1.07 has 7p waiting and 1.08 has 6p lined-up.

Hope it's a close match for them.
Must take ages to enter all the bets.

Gruss lets you see the exact amount before anyone asks.

Roger OASIS     20 Aug 10 11:40 
Lol. Look at the graph for both players on the Fish v Murray match.
All prices from 1.49 downwards have a 0.01p waiting for them...

Hope it's a close match for them.
Must take ages to enter all the bets.

Would you still find it amusing if you backed £1000 on one of the players at 1.49 IR, only to find that 100,000 people had layed £0.01 at that price?

If the player you backed at 1.49 loses, you lose £1000. If he wins, then you win £0 [100000 individual bets of £0.01 matched at 1.49; each and every bet providing a profit of £0].

That is why such bets are prohibited.

The way to put an end to this would be to settle all the bets which are matched at 1.49, to a penny, at 2.00 (evens).

.Marksman.,

Your proposal (above) may be preferable to the current situation but you would then have people attempting to back selections for £0.01 at 1.49.

If their bets win, they would be paid out at evens despite nominally backing the selection at 1.49. Therefore, if the true price of the selection is below evens at the time their bet is matched, they would be receiving a value bet. Conversely, the layer(s) of these bets would in effect be receiving a poor value price as they are paying out at evens despite laying the bets at 1.49.

If 200 individual £0.01 back bets were placed on a selection at 1.49 and those bets were all settled at evens, this would generate a combined pre-commission profit of £2 for the backer(s) if the selection wins. Whereas, the equivalent single bet of £2 placed at 1.49, would make the backer a pre-commission profit of £0.98.

jt45, thats a very good point.  Something has to be done to stop these cheats, though.

Under 4.5 Goals       1.15       £0.03       £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.16     £0.03     £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.17     £0.02     £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.18     £0.02     £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.19     £0.02     £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.2     £0.02     £0.00
Ref: Bet matched:
    1.21     £0.02     £0.00


now thats annoying

I spoke to the helpdesk about a week ago on another matter and brought this up as a question of the site's integrity.  I told them about this thread, which the guy seemed quite interested to read, despite the degeneration into garden gnome territory. 

I'm fairly sure they take it quite seriously but whether they can cost effectively do anything about it remains to be seen.

On the subject of sub £2 invisible bets, I was told that my account could bet in euros if I funded it from a euro bank account and therefore be able to take advantage of legitimate invisible 2euro betting.

BF used to operate on the strict principle that (after possible currency conversion and rounding) an exact whole number of backer's pence was matched with an exact whole number of layer's pence.

With cross-matching, BF have now departed from this principle.

Now that the precedent has been set, they may as well throw the priciple out of the window and forget about identifying exactly which pennies have been matched with which other pennies. Just calculate everything exactly, and round down to the nearest penny/cent/whatever for each customer on settlement. This has the advantage that if you bet £2.00 at 1.49, you will always win the £0.98 that you expected, and you don't need to know whether it was matched all-at-once or in 200 mini-bets of £0.01 each.

BF will make a few extra pence per market on this system, which I don't begrudge them. Perhaps they can plough the money back by reforming the cross-matching algorithm to also only take a maximum of 0.9999 pence from each customer...

is there realy people making money from doing this alone

this seemed to stop a couple of weeks ago, but these last few days i have been getting more and more of these.

i would like to bring this topic up in the forthcoming live chat scheduled for thurs 23rd. If enough people email betfair with questions regarding this , then maybe they might actually do something about it.

Problem is that I cant be bothered spending time e-mailing betfair everytime i get a bet matched like this. So i suggest that we could have a thread on the forum ( on site feedback) and everytime anyone gets a bet they can just copy and paste the bet I.D number instead of having to go through the laborious process of e-mailing betfair.

If betfair could then moniter this thread daily then the perbetraters could easily be identified by matching up the bet I.D number

Alternative suggestions welcome, other ideas include making all accounts to four decimal places or making the minimum liabilty on any bets to 1 penny .

I've had a shed load matched recently. Tonight I'm going to put them all into one list and email it to betfair.

Certainly a good idea about bringing it up at the Q&A. I'll email it too.

I'm also starting to get loads of these matched.

Would a decent way to stop this be that if a customer has zero liability on a market, he automatically wins nothing?

It's a nuisance because it messes up the analytics for me, giving me an artificially lower profit per market.

I can't help thinking that the publicity, on this thread,
will have escalated the problem!

I seem to recall a thread, perhaps a couple of years ago,
about an American woman who was doing this.

From that day on I think it became more prevalent!

Betfair Live Chat Joined: 07 Jun 00
Replies: 81 23 Sep 10 18:48   
Will you be cracking down on people entering markets and matching bets for 0.01p, creating a bet which no matter what happens will win you 0p but can cost you 0.01p? 
It doesn't seem fair. I have had several hundred of these bets matched since my last email to you when you said, "We are aware that some customers use software that circumvents the minimum stake restriction and we have automated procedures that identify accounts looking to disadvantage or inconvenience other customers by matching an excessive number of small bets.
We will give the customer a warning or even suspend their account if they continue to abuse the system." )

As we previously state as soon as customers are identified, their accounts are suspended and they’re warned to cease this activity immediately. We are monitoring this activity and doing our best to combat it. 



Here you go, here's one matched about 30 seconds before the reply on Livechat



Under 1.5 Goals  1.46  £0.01  £0.00 
Ref: 12208525295 Bet matched: 18:47 23-Sep-10

the way to stop it is for BF to take commission from an accounts net profit on a market, not from each of their individual bets.

they do take the commission from net profit, as you will see from your statement.

However they settle each bet individually.


BTW I think the title meant £0.01, not 0.01p... 0.01p really wouldn't be worth betting!

you're right   [:)]

This whole subject matter is total chickenshit lads. Please move on with your betting lives.

Frog Hair,

You regard this matter as chickens**t but clearly a number of people on this thread do not concur with your viewpoint. Perhaps you too may have cause to treat this issue more seriously in the future.

If insufficient action is taken to combat this problem then it is likely that an ever greater number of people will attempt to place similar bets. You may then find that, rather than the potential of losing the occasional 1p from such no gain bets, the risk becomes 20p or more (and the 'missing potential gain' ~ 10p or more) on almost every market in which you place bets at prices of below 1.5.

This could soon mount up for medium to high volume customers. It would also be likely to frustrate even relatively low volume customers.


The Investor,

That strikes me as an entirely reasonable proposal. Assuming that there are no technical issues that would make it prohibitive to implement, and it is not obvious why there should be, then it would seem to be an ideal method to tackle this problem.

Whilst it is possible to have such no risk bets matched unintentionally due to partial matching/currency differences, the overwhelming majority of these bets are quite clearly submitted deliberately.

As your proposal would remove the financial incentive for people to deliberately submit such bets, it would be likely to all but eliminate the problem. I suspect that very few people would make the effort to submit such bets simply for their own amusement.

Unfortunately, whilst it would eliminate the no risk lays of 1p @ 1.49 type of bets, it wouldn't be effective in preventing other similar activity.

It would not discourage people from submitting, for example, lay bets of 4p @ 1.37 risking 1p (rounded down from 1.48p upon settlement if the bet loses) for a potential gain of 4p - thereby effectively laying the selection at 1.25 instead of 1.37.

Similarly you can back 1p, at odds of 1.5 to evens, and have
a 50/50 win or lose situation.

...

JT 45 HAS GONE THROUGH THE FILES ,AND GOT MORE EVIDENCE MY LORD ,I DIDNT KNOW WHAT LENTHS THEY WOULD GO TO ,WHAT CHANCE HAVE I GOT MY LORD ,WHEN THERES A GANG OF GEEKS TRYING TO INCRIMINATE THE 1P BETTOR AND MYSELF ,

MY LORD I WAS NOT AWARE OF THIS EVIDENCE ,I DIDNT KNOW THERE WAS SUCH TYPES AS JT45 ,THAT COULD SEARCH THE BANAL ANNALS OF THE BETFAIR FORUMS,

THERE THE TYPES THAT HAD A MULTICOLOURED TORCH ,WHEN I HAD ONLY A TORCH THAT SHONE ONE COLOUR ,

HOW COULD I BE LEADER OF THE STREET GANG ,WHEN THEIR WERE THE LIKES OF HIM