General Betting
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27 May 10
19:52
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Replies: 67
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Have you looked under the carpet?
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Has there been some sweeping?
Seriously, did Betfair pull it? |
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Looks like it's been pulled.
The jist of it is that if your account is comprimised, whether it's down to incompetence by you or fraud by a betfair employee, any loss is suffered ENTIRELY BY YOU. Caveat emptor, indeed. |
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That's pretty poor if true.
I will be contacting Betfair about this, as is this is a serious risk factor and both betfair and their customers can't make it go away by pretending it doesn't exist. |
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Even a thread on security isn't secure on Betfair
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they would of taken it down as it makes them look like dirt
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this is such a serious issue. given the amount of money in some betfair accounts, there is a real danger of organised criminals infiltrating someone in as an employee purely to get access to account info.
BF stonewalling and pulling threads isn't good enough imo. |
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I've e-mailed them on this today and yes, they confirm you will be liable if your password is used to access the account, even if it is used fraudulently.
I will be withdrawing most of my funds and suggest others do the same. |
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so they're saying that if someone gets your password, even if it's through their negligence, you're liable for any losses to your BF account, and to the cards it's linked to?
I would *love* to see that tested in court. They'd have to set aside half an hour's laughing time per day of the case. |
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half hour more like a day, well feel free to hack my account people so i can sue betfair
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Do you think operators like Betting promotion deposit £millions on here knowing that a hacker who only needs their username and password could bankrupt them in a few seconds, or does their signed agreement with Betfair incorporate this.
It would be ridiculously easy to hack into a random account here. There are bound to be people with stupid username password combinations like username [famous person's first name], password [famous person's last name]. If you are reading this and this is you, CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD NOW!  Like someone said before in the original thread, use a strong password, with lowercase and uppercase letters as well as numbers. Perhaps betfair should make this mandatory. |
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I agree it's not a very good situation, but as long as that's how it is in the T&C that you agree to then there you go. They are providing a non-mandatory service and it's up to you to take it or not. Like leaving your coat in a cloakroom at a club, it is all at your risk.
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They'll probably pull this one too shortly.
I changed my password following the last thread, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea, what's to stop a hacker changing your password as the first thing they do so you can't see what's going on in your own account for a short while? Having 3 cards registered is a good idea, I assume to cancel a card to make room for another you would have to answer a security question by telephone? As well as the password, would like to see three random digits of a 2nd six figure security code requested when logging on, and maybe some kind of card reader used for withdrawals (when ever I make a payment via my bank I have to use a card reader). BF have just asked me to complete a survey, so I'll be using the opportunity to raise security issues. Does anyone have any ideas that could be easilly implemented? |
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optional hardware dongle
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"I agree it's not a very good situation, but as long as that's how it is in the T&C that you agree to then there you go"
God, not another person who thinks that t&cs automatically mean companies can do as they please!  |
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Wedged Joined: 19 Nov 05
Replies: 2027 28 May 10 16:08 I agree it's not a very good situation, but as long as that's how it is in the T&C that you agree to then there you go. They are providing a non-mandatory service and it's up to you to take it or not. Like leaving your coat in a cloakroom at a club, it is all at your risk. That's only the case if the cloakroom service is provided free of charge. If your coat is lost after you have paid to have it stored (as you would in most nightclubs), you can take them to small claims court if they don't refund you (and you will win unless they lie about having lost your coat!). The same applies to dry cleaners who lose buttons on your shirt or damage your clothes. They often have signs saying 'we are not responsible', but if pressed, they will refund you, because they know you will win if you take them to small claims court. I saw one club cloakroom that had a sign saying 'we will only refund up to £50 for lost items'. Once again, this is bullsh*t, and you can take them to court if they don't refund you in full. My coat was lost in the cloakroom of a well known London club, and they refunded me in full, and gave me free entry +1 and complimentary drinks for the night. viva el presidente! Joined: 10 Jun 06 Replies: 4552 28 May 10 18:21 optional hardware dongle Good idea! |
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I've been searching google for a few different terms like "betfair hacked". I've seen that there have been instances where Betfair refunded the customer, as well as instances where they didn't (according to people who claim this happened to them).
One interesting thing for firefox users is an add-on that stops keyloggers storing what you type: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/ firefox/addon/3383/ I haven't installed it yet, but it has lots of good reviews, so I will consider it. I'll be contacting Betfair after the weekend: 1) To get a clear idea about their policy regarding fraud, and decide whether or not I will need to decrease the balance I hold here. 2) To get advice on the best possible steps to take to make everything as secure as possible. |
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The possibility of losing money through fraud is much more worrying to me than losing money through betting!
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Perhaps the original thread was pulled, not because Betfair are trying to cover up the state of their security, but because the poster of that thread implied that the fraud was committed with the help of a Betfair employee, which I think was a completely unfounded allegation.
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Some threads regarding hacked accounts:
http://www.online-betting-guide.co.uk/ forum/topic2_8798.html http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/ showthread.php?t=1874121 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/ forum/general-consumer-issues/ 66965-fraud-betfair.html |
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They ought to provide you with the option of disabling the online card maintenance. In my case, I rarely need to remove or add cards and would be happier doing it by phone and having this website feature removed.
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They deleted the thread... seriously? They obviously know how bad it looks on them then. Top stuff...
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It is true that betfair will say F off if your account is hacked into.
Cut a long story short...a large amount of money was stolen from my neteller account, placed into a betfair account. Betfair recovered most of the money and when I asked about the remaining money they said it was not their fault and that was the end of it. It was only after getting the police involved that betfair credited me with the remaining money. I remember someone telling a story about going to a internet cafe, logging into their betfair account and forgetting to log out...he lost all the money in his account and betfair said there is nothing we can do. Betfair will not recover any funds if your account is hacked into! Which makes having a large balance at betfair extremely risky. |
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Has anyone had a comment from Betfair about this yet? I think a couple of people emailed them (so that'll be a no then)
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I remember someone telling a story about going to a internet cafe, logging into their betfair account and forgetting to log out...he lost all the money in his account and betfair said there is nothing we can do.
--------------------- well, tbh, that's fair enough. what are they supposed to do? |
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Rocket to the FACE Joined: 28 Oct 08
Replies: 3990 01 Jun 10 20:48 Has anyone had a comment from Betfair about this yet? I think a couple of people emailed them (so that'll be a no then) Yes: Q: What would be the procedure if one of your customer's accounts was hacked into and a large bet was placed despite the fact that their security was in order (strong password, not disclosed to any third party)? Is there a set procedure for Betfair, or does this vary from case to case? Answer received from Betfair: Ultimately, it is the account holders responsibility for ensuring the security of their Betfair account details. In such unfortunate cases of a comprised account, once we have been informed, the account will be suspended for Fraud Investigation. Each case will be investigated individually by our Fraud team and necessary action will be taken after the investigation is complete, this will be dependent on the particular case and can vary. I also asked if they could list the security measures they recommended with regard to software, specifically asking about QFX keyscrambler and other progs, these three questions:1) How often should I change my password? 2) Would you recommend software to protect against keyloggers such as QFX KeyScrambler http://www.qfxsoftware.com/ download.htm 3) What other type of software (antivirus and firewall). There are a few simple actions that you can take to help protect against fraudulent activity. 1. Passwords should be changed frequently but it is at the user's discretion as we don't don't enforce password changes automatically. 2. Any software which gives protection and peace of mind is recommended. 3. Here is a general link to our security pages which offers advice: http://help.betfair.com/contents /itemId/i65767757/index.en.html |
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Hmm, that doesn't really fill me with confidence.
So it looks like the best thing to do is move the majority of your balance into your betting bank account and leave only the necessary amount actually deposited with Betfair. If they had any sense, they'd realise they were shooting themselves in the foot. |
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ttt
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Well, it's certainly an incentive not to keep money sitting in an account unused.
I have a few accounts beside my main one, including one in € currency with a reasonable balance. I've emptied these, and am now considering whether to decrease what I hold in my main account. I would like some clarity from Betfair regarding this. Like I said before, I can't believe that those people that have six or seven figure sums deposited here, like betting promotion and the large bookies, are completely unprotected. I believe they have agreements in place, offering them a level of protection that the rest of us don't get, but I may be wrong. |
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If someone had your password though, they'd be able to deposit into betfair from your betting bank account via the My Account page.
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oops ignore my previous post - they'd have to withdraw the money to the same card...
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Not from my bank they wouldn't, as Natwest always require a 3 letter code from my password before releasing funds.
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I think people taking money from your bank account is actually the least worrying thing. Banks & credit card companies will give you your money back in the case of such fraud (although it can take months and you need to fill out a bunch of forms).
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The worrying this is that if someone gets access to your account they can simply place a load of silly bets and match them with thier own account(s).
e.g. they open up a fresh market and place a lay (from your account) at 1000 then match it with their own account. What I'd like to know is whether this sort of scam would be chased up, as there would be an obvious trail of bets. But would they do anything? |
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Anyone any idea or experience with this?
I do remember one thread on here some while back where someone said access and bets had been placed using their account and the money was not refunded. Would this come down to individual cases perhaps - e.g. how secure the customer had kept their account, proof of how accessed etc? |
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shrewdbury
What I'd like to know is whether this sort of scam would be chased up, as there would be an obvious trail of bets. But would they do anything? I imagine if the hacker had enough time to place the bets and withdraw the funds from his new account, very little action would follow. Betfair may take the same stance as banks who appear to view fraud as a part of their business. UK banks lose around 500 million a year to card fraud, but have you ever heard of them chasing a lead up, i.e. proof that a card was cloned at a certain place, or used at a certain place, or goods ordered were delivered to a certain place, nope they don't want to know. They could have names, addresses, cctv etc and would still do nothing. I guess 500 million is small fry to them when you consider UK bankers annual bonuses alone are around 30 times greater! |
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So in other words - take all your spare cash out of your accounts now. end of.
I recently reduced my betting bank on here by about 33%. I'm still worried people could access to your cards through this site though, although at least there is a daily limit for deposits and then you could quickly stop the account and ask for an investigation. I check my account regularly though, so I would spot anything rapidly. I can assure you if BF ever 'refused' to investigate a fraud on my account I would drag them through the courts and the press. Not running their markets correctly is one thing (and seems IBAS have little power or willingness in that respect after a recent experience) but fraud is illegal and a different kettle of fish entirely. |
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why would anyone keep more cash in their account than they need to bet with?
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dstyle ,for one, a lot of traders who use large sums to trade with day in day out but end up with little exposure at the off. can't be transferring back and forth each day easily
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