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I know i have said this before but i still think Maria is Massey himself , remember it is all to easy to disguise behind photos and other things on verious sights.
I cant get my head around why it stopped , i have never met anyone who has a winning format that stops . I am sure you would keep on making money out of it , i have looked at most of her laying tips and i must admit they do not do well , perhaps i just dont get it . I must admit for a young lady from where ever her English is of an Oxford grad standard.
You chaps can now feel free to crucify me .
gl everyone
I cant get my head around why it stopped , i have never met anyone who has a winning format that stops . I am sure you would keep on making money out of it , i have looked at most of her laying tips and i must admit they do not do well , perhaps i just dont get it . I must admit for a young lady from where ever her English is of an Oxford grad standard.
You chaps can now feel free to crucify me .
gl everyone
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Well, on a more constructive note: I find it pretty obvious she is real, and that she's not Massey. Anyone active in that forum would know that.
And her English is good, yes, but that for some odd reason that's only spectacular for people who speak English as their native tongue.
But haters gonna hate.
And if she actually were him, again: Would it really matter?
And her English is good, yes, but that for some odd reason that's only spectacular for people who speak English as their native tongue.
But haters gonna hate.
And if she actually were him, again: Would it really matter?
The 'Maria' laying system was a promotion vehicle, no more no less.
The winnings from the system were notional, ie total sh!te.
The winnings from the system were notional, ie total sh!te.
Maria is very real.
The Maria lay success was due to having something extra that was never discussed in detail.
In short, those trying to replicate her success purely by copying her staking method are doomed to fail.
Unless one has the same method with same persistent profit, it will never clone.
If anyone has read her entire thread, one will also see that she was extremely lucky also. Tripling her bank in the last month of a long and extended strategy.
I see so many Maria threads on all forums, but none of them approach it in the correct way.
They are obseesed with the staking strategy and ignore the actual method.
The Maria lay success was due to having something extra that was never discussed in detail.
In short, those trying to replicate her success purely by copying her staking method are doomed to fail.
Unless one has the same method with same persistent profit, it will never clone.
If anyone has read her entire thread, one will also see that she was extremely lucky also. Tripling her bank in the last month of a long and extended strategy.
I see so many Maria threads on all forums, but none of them approach it in the correct way.
They are obseesed with the staking strategy and ignore the actual method.
Beat The Overround
When you say her method you mean her method for selection of her horses to lay?
When you say her method you mean her method for selection of her horses to lay?
Yes mate.
No one can replicate her exact lay selection strategy unless they know how it was arrived at.
But the first port of call, is getting something really successful profit wise and then applying her staking.
Otherwise you may as well chase Keno numbers.
No one can replicate her exact lay selection strategy unless they know how it was arrived at.
But the first port of call, is getting something really successful profit wise and then applying her staking.
Otherwise you may as well chase Keno numbers.
Did she have a strategy for picking her selections? I have looked at the Massey forum this week and her selections wouldn't inspire me to follow her. Her lay selections won for three consecutive days, which included a first time out one which would probably have only been selected because of the short price. Seems like a nice girl though.
"Maria is very real."
People who questioned her profits were banned from EBA.
Why was that?
People who questioned her profits were banned from EBA.
Why was that?
Norma Stitz
Did you question the prices of her lays and were you banned.
You do have a point about the prices obtained.
Regards Trademate
Did you question the prices of her lays and were you banned.
You do have a point about the prices obtained.
Regards Trademate
You must realise the enormous following after word spread about her success, in fact it went almost viral worldwide.
I have corresponded with her via email a couple of times, and she seems fair dinkum.
You can imagine along with everyone wanting to know this and that, that she had already stated her method of selection would remain quiet.
But people persited in deriding her and calling it bogus etc.
She did place every bet on the forum, pages and pages of it.
Then the attacks about prices obtained, and then some even got personal.
She simply got fed up with it all, as it was ancient history and she'd moved on.
Part of her way of obtaining prices was her strategy which was not revealed, only the staking plan.
I recall her father had some involvement in the strategy.
Every price she said she got had been a traded price on Betfair - I checked every single one in the Betfair data.
She had a knack of being able to select horses, and have a fair idea of which way the prices would go.
This was the majority of her success, not the staking plan.
The staking plan simply compounded her profits.
But the profits were already there.
I can't blame her for complaining about detractors, it was proofed to the website, even she admits, she got lucky in the last month, as her selections did better than usual.
But as far as she's concerned, it's done and proven, and she's moved on.
I have corresponded with her via email a couple of times, and she seems fair dinkum.
You can imagine along with everyone wanting to know this and that, that she had already stated her method of selection would remain quiet.
But people persited in deriding her and calling it bogus etc.
She did place every bet on the forum, pages and pages of it.
Then the attacks about prices obtained, and then some even got personal.
She simply got fed up with it all, as it was ancient history and she'd moved on.
Part of her way of obtaining prices was her strategy which was not revealed, only the staking plan.
I recall her father had some involvement in the strategy.
Every price she said she got had been a traded price on Betfair - I checked every single one in the Betfair data.
She had a knack of being able to select horses, and have a fair idea of which way the prices would go.
This was the majority of her success, not the staking plan.
The staking plan simply compounded her profits.
But the profits were already there.
I can't blame her for complaining about detractors, it was proofed to the website, even she admits, she got lucky in the last month, as her selections did better than usual.
But as far as she's concerned, it's done and proven, and she's moved on.
Beat The OverRound
As you seem to have the inside scoop, why did Maria stop recording prices at SP? That would have shown the true merits of the system.
If Maria placed all the bets, how come she never accounted for the many Rule4's she would encountered ? Why when she claimed she left prices to be matched, did she not have more odd price matches that would have been caused by part of a bet being matched and then a Rule4 being applied?
Why when questioned about Rule4 did she have no idea how it would have altered her results and then feel it necessary to have those post deleted?
Her success relied on being able achieve prices that most people could not. I have no idea if the thread was genuine or not,but I know if the difficult questions had been answered and not delted then it would have a lot more credability.
That being said, she clearly has hleped a number of people on the Massey forum and seems to do a good job there.
As you seem to have the inside scoop, why did Maria stop recording prices at SP? That would have shown the true merits of the system.
If Maria placed all the bets, how come she never accounted for the many Rule4's she would encountered ? Why when she claimed she left prices to be matched, did she not have more odd price matches that would have been caused by part of a bet being matched and then a Rule4 being applied?
Why when questioned about Rule4 did she have no idea how it would have altered her results and then feel it necessary to have those post deleted?
Her success relied on being able achieve prices that most people could not. I have no idea if the thread was genuine or not,but I know if the difficult questions had been answered and not delted then it would have a lot more credability.
That being said, she clearly has hleped a number of people on the Massey forum and seems to do a good job there.
Good points Angie.
As for this from BTO.........
Every price she said she got had been a traded price on Betfair - I checked every single one in the Betfair data.
Of course they were.And that would have been very easy to acheive is she was cheating because of the very wide spread of prices horses are matched on pre race . The great majority of horses are, at some point between the market opening and the Off , matched below SP .
All she would have needed to do was look down the graph and choose one of the matched prices that was lower down. She could have largely removed this doubt if , when posting her selections late morning (and she stated most were matched bets at that point) , she had posted the prices she had been matched at. Then people could have checked if those could have been matched at that time. As it was the pricing was all aftertimed.
As for this from BTO.........
Every price she said she got had been a traded price on Betfair - I checked every single one in the Betfair data.
Of course they were.And that would have been very easy to acheive is she was cheating because of the very wide spread of prices horses are matched on pre race . The great majority of horses are, at some point between the market opening and the Off , matched below SP .
All she would have needed to do was look down the graph and choose one of the matched prices that was lower down. She could have largely removed this doubt if , when posting her selections late morning (and she stated most were matched bets at that point) , she had posted the prices she had been matched at. Then people could have checked if those could have been matched at that time. As it was the pricing was all aftertimed.
So you made up your minds she was cheating?
So why should she entertain this sort of behaviour after posting so many pages of selections.
Why would she bother setting up a thread of so many pages and post every day only to cheat?
Whatever you may think of her or her method, she is no cheat, and has no need to cheat.
She is still around, still winning and helping others on various forums.
I do not know her personally, but have had quite a few email conversations about the attacks.
I believe she is genuine.
I also know how she feels.
I've posted many selection and staking strategies on here for no other reason than to try and help some people in a hole.
I've been met by the same hostility and doubt for my trouble.
Granted there are people who have a lend, just for the hell of it, so it's healthy to treat things with initial boubt.
But hell, when people have been around the traps for years and continue to help, perhaps a little constructive comment and thanks for help might be nice.
This is a very selfish game at times, so I'd grab free help where I can.
I refer to the caning I got over Rule 4.
It wasn't that I didnn't understand Rule 4, I didn't understand the terminology.
Here it's called Late Scratching Deductions, nobody here has heard the term Rule 4.
Due to the viscious lashing I received from from detractors, I stopped posting to the thread.
The spirit of it was killed.
Maria feels pretty much the same way.
So why should she entertain this sort of behaviour after posting so many pages of selections.
Why would she bother setting up a thread of so many pages and post every day only to cheat?
Whatever you may think of her or her method, she is no cheat, and has no need to cheat.
She is still around, still winning and helping others on various forums.
I do not know her personally, but have had quite a few email conversations about the attacks.
I believe she is genuine.
I also know how she feels.
I've posted many selection and staking strategies on here for no other reason than to try and help some people in a hole.
I've been met by the same hostility and doubt for my trouble.
Granted there are people who have a lend, just for the hell of it, so it's healthy to treat things with initial boubt.
But hell, when people have been around the traps for years and continue to help, perhaps a little constructive comment and thanks for help might be nice.
This is a very selfish game at times, so I'd grab free help where I can.
I refer to the caning I got over Rule 4.
It wasn't that I didnn't understand Rule 4, I didn't understand the terminology.
Here it's called Late Scratching Deductions, nobody here has heard the term Rule 4.
Due to the viscious lashing I received from from detractors, I stopped posting to the thread.
The spirit of it was killed.
Maria feels pretty much the same way.
Well i never said she was cheating, i don't know, but i don't see why she couldn't have posted the prices she was matched on before racing when she was posting her selections before 12pm and claiming she had already been matched on most of them at that point.
And that would have been very easy to acheive is she was cheating because of the very wide spread of prices horses are matched on pre race
the 'is' was meant to be an 'if' there
clearly no grammatical sense otherwise
clearly no grammatical sense otherwise
Ah o.k. sorry for the mix up.
For the others, ever wondered why Maria didn't post the odds until later, even though some had been matched?
Maria has made many appearances on Betfair, and even Betfair radio.
She is alive and well over at the massey forum.
She has never chaarged a cent nor offered her services.
She is a successful racehorse player and Poker Queen.
And she isn't half bad looking either ;)
For the others, ever wondered why Maria didn't post the odds until later, even though some had been matched?
Maria has made many appearances on Betfair, and even Betfair radio.
She is alive and well over at the massey forum.
She has never chaarged a cent nor offered her services.
She is a successful racehorse player and Poker Queen.
And she isn't half bad looking either ;)
"Her success relied on being able achieve prices that most people could not."
You can make any price appear in the traded column if you get into the market early enough.
You can make any price appear in the traded column if you get into the market early enough.
”Why would she bother setting up a thread of so many pages and post every day only to cheat?”
I assume she likes the attention, which would also explain the photographs.
”still winning and helping others on various forums.”
Apart from Massey, what other forums does she post on?
”I also know how she feels.”
Again, if the photos are anything to go by, quiet boney I would imagine.
”But hell, when people have been around the traps for years and continue to help, perhaps a little constructive comment and thanks for help might be nice.”
I agree, especially when you consider if Maria, has only been 20% as successful as she was in her EBA year she would now be a millionaire many times over. Perhaps this is her way of giving something back. The problem is that the Massey forum has a number of members who basically post complete nonsense in an egotistical environment that is encouraged by Maria. She seems to have a bunch of followers that could post the world is flat and get away with it. My husband was recently banded for pointing out that two posters in particular, Almond and Horsetrader, had no clue what they were talking about. The response was they were respected members of the forum and were beyond reproach. Sounds like her thread on EBA all over again.
”It wasn't that I didn’t understand Rule 4, I didn't understand the terminology.”
Whether Maria understood the terminology or not is irrelevant. If she had been placing the bets as claimed then her returns on Betfair, when a reduction factor was applied, would have been different from those she reported. As she was not publishing her prices until after the event it would have been easy enough, when she has already gone to so much trouble, to post the price shown on her Betfair count. Why would you spend a year posting an inaccurate account that leaves you open to criticism.
At the moment Maria has a thread were she claims to be backing selections at early prices with a number of bookmakers. We all know that if you take early prices from bookmakers and are successful for any length of time that you are reduced to nominal stakes very quickly. I would think this would be even more likely if you have Maria’s reputation. Yet day after day the bookies seem to be lining up to give her money. I wish they would do the same for me. According to one particular numpty, Almond, the bookies all wait eagerly to see her selections every day so the can change their prices. And we are supposed to take theses people seriously.
“And she isn't half bad looking either “
I actually look quiet good myself when I am heavily pixilated, but I am not that skinny
”For the others, ever wondered why Maria didn't post the odds until later, even though some had been matched?”
I assume she was at school.
“She is alive and well over at the massey forum.”
Yes, but unfortunately a number of the posters there are brain dead.
I have a vision of all the traders at the main bookmakers eagerly clicking the refresh button on Maria’s thread so they wont get caught in the stampede when today’s selection are posted.
“She has never chaarged a cent nor offered her services.”
I should hope not, considering the amount of money she makes.
Let’s face it, the easiest way to make money would be to trade off of an apparently successful system that is read by thousands. That would have been a brilliant plan and congratulations to her if that’s what she did.
I assume she likes the attention, which would also explain the photographs.
”still winning and helping others on various forums.”
Apart from Massey, what other forums does she post on?
”I also know how she feels.”
Again, if the photos are anything to go by, quiet boney I would imagine.
”But hell, when people have been around the traps for years and continue to help, perhaps a little constructive comment and thanks for help might be nice.”
I agree, especially when you consider if Maria, has only been 20% as successful as she was in her EBA year she would now be a millionaire many times over. Perhaps this is her way of giving something back. The problem is that the Massey forum has a number of members who basically post complete nonsense in an egotistical environment that is encouraged by Maria. She seems to have a bunch of followers that could post the world is flat and get away with it. My husband was recently banded for pointing out that two posters in particular, Almond and Horsetrader, had no clue what they were talking about. The response was they were respected members of the forum and were beyond reproach. Sounds like her thread on EBA all over again.
”It wasn't that I didn’t understand Rule 4, I didn't understand the terminology.”
Whether Maria understood the terminology or not is irrelevant. If she had been placing the bets as claimed then her returns on Betfair, when a reduction factor was applied, would have been different from those she reported. As she was not publishing her prices until after the event it would have been easy enough, when she has already gone to so much trouble, to post the price shown on her Betfair count. Why would you spend a year posting an inaccurate account that leaves you open to criticism.
At the moment Maria has a thread were she claims to be backing selections at early prices with a number of bookmakers. We all know that if you take early prices from bookmakers and are successful for any length of time that you are reduced to nominal stakes very quickly. I would think this would be even more likely if you have Maria’s reputation. Yet day after day the bookies seem to be lining up to give her money. I wish they would do the same for me. According to one particular numpty, Almond, the bookies all wait eagerly to see her selections every day so the can change their prices. And we are supposed to take theses people seriously.
“And she isn't half bad looking either “
I actually look quiet good myself when I am heavily pixilated, but I am not that skinny
”For the others, ever wondered why Maria didn't post the odds until later, even though some had been matched?”
I assume she was at school.
“She is alive and well over at the massey forum.”
Yes, but unfortunately a number of the posters there are brain dead.
I have a vision of all the traders at the main bookmakers eagerly clicking the refresh button on Maria’s thread so they wont get caught in the stampede when today’s selection are posted.
“She has never chaarged a cent nor offered her services.”
I should hope not, considering the amount of money she makes.
Let’s face it, the easiest way to make money would be to trade off of an apparently successful system that is read by thousands. That would have been a brilliant plan and congratulations to her if that’s what she did.
"Let’s face it, the easiest way to make money would be to trade off of an apparently successful system that is read by thousands. That would have been a brilliant plan and congratulations to her if that’s what she did."
Oh, you cynic, you!
Oh, you cynic, you!
Good grief!!!
The photographs are pixelated, I have seen them unpixelated.
She pixelates them because women feel threatened and men don't take her seriously.
Apart from Massey, what other forums does she post on?
Massey and Betfair aren't the only forums in the world.
She's not hard to find - Maria Santonix.
Again, if the photos are anything to go by, quiet boney I would imagine.
What's that got to do with anything?
The problem is that the Massey forum has a number of members who basically post complete nonsense in an egotistical environment that is encouraged by Maria. She seems to have a bunch of followers that could post the world is flat and get away with it.
Because she is friendly and encourages others, but won't listen to people trying to drag her down, she encourages idiots?
My husband was recently banded for pointing out that two posters in particular, Almond and Horsetrader, had no clue what they were talking about. The response was they were respected members of the forum and were beyond reproach. Sounds like her thread on EBA all over again.
If he got banned, it was probably the way he said it, and most probably nothing to do with Maria.
For the rest of it, it's your opinion.
I assume she was at school.
No, she wasn't at school at the time, but did go on to get a PhD, be a successful horseplayer and poker star.
You all missed her live because you had no clue, just hypothesis and ridicule.
Yes, but unfortunately a number of the posters there are brain dead.
If ever you needed proof that every forum has a certain section of brain dead posters, re-read the garbage you wrote.
I am not Maria, Maria is not a close friend of mine.
But I can't stand this crap, what precisely did she do wrong?
She is successful and has brains and beauty.
Men can't stand it, and neither can women.
The world is so superficial.
The photographs are pixelated, I have seen them unpixelated.
She pixelates them because women feel threatened and men don't take her seriously.
Apart from Massey, what other forums does she post on?
Massey and Betfair aren't the only forums in the world.
She's not hard to find - Maria Santonix.
Again, if the photos are anything to go by, quiet boney I would imagine.
What's that got to do with anything?
The problem is that the Massey forum has a number of members who basically post complete nonsense in an egotistical environment that is encouraged by Maria. She seems to have a bunch of followers that could post the world is flat and get away with it.
Because she is friendly and encourages others, but won't listen to people trying to drag her down, she encourages idiots?
My husband was recently banded for pointing out that two posters in particular, Almond and Horsetrader, had no clue what they were talking about. The response was they were respected members of the forum and were beyond reproach. Sounds like her thread on EBA all over again.
If he got banned, it was probably the way he said it, and most probably nothing to do with Maria.
For the rest of it, it's your opinion.
I assume she was at school.
No, she wasn't at school at the time, but did go on to get a PhD, be a successful horseplayer and poker star.
You all missed her live because you had no clue, just hypothesis and ridicule.
Yes, but unfortunately a number of the posters there are brain dead.
If ever you needed proof that every forum has a certain section of brain dead posters, re-read the garbage you wrote.
I am not Maria, Maria is not a close friend of mine.
But I can't stand this crap, what precisely did she do wrong?
She is successful and has brains and beauty.
Men can't stand it, and neither can women.
The world is so superficial.
The thing is if you read marias posts i feel it could only be a woman who writes in that style. Its to descriptive and elaborate and for me its not the writings of a man.
Beat the OverRound and maria = same person
You must realise the enormous following after word spread about her success, in fact it went almost viral worldwide.
WALOFS!!!
You must realise the enormous following after word spread about her success, in fact it went almost viral worldwide.
WALOFS!!!
LOL
Maria lives in Latvia and sometimes Greece.
I live in Australia.
She is a woman, I am a man.
Not even close my friend.
Maria lives in Latvia and sometimes Greece.
I live in Australia.
She is a woman, I am a man.
Not even close my friend.
Maria doesnt exist imo and she or person is a scouser imvho [;)]
It did go viral amongst the gambling forums, from Australia to UK to Europe, to India, to South America, to South Africa.
It went everywhere, back when her thread was nearing it's end.
It went everywhere, back when her thread was nearing it's end.
”The photographs are pixelated, I have seen them unpixelated.
She pixelates them because women feel threatened and men don't take her seriously.”
She can’t expect to be taken seriously if to gain attention she feel it necessary to post semi naked, and according to you, unpixilated, photos of herself all over the net.
”Because she is friendly and encourages others, but won't listen to people trying to drag her down, she encourages idiots?”
I can’t disagree with you there. Certainly a number of her close followers on Massey appear to be idiots
”No, she wasn't at school at the time, but did go on to get a PhD, be a successful horseplayer and poker star.”
Well that’ what she told you. Whether it is true, you can’t possibly know.
”If ever you needed proof that every forum has a certain section of brain dead posters, re-read the garbage you wrote.”
It’s good to see that you are able to respond to my points with a well rounded argument. You will go down well on the Massey forum.
”I am not Maria, Maria is not a close friend of mine.”
Yet you seem to know so much about her. Is it some sort of internet stalking. According to you all that has occurred is a few email exchanges, yet you seem to be obsessed with her.
”She is successful and has brains and beauty.
Men can't stand it, and neither can women.
The world is so superficial.”
I think that says it all, you haven’t met her, haven’t spoken to her yet you think the sun shines out her pixilated bottom. How superficial is that.
She pixelates them because women feel threatened and men don't take her seriously.”
She can’t expect to be taken seriously if to gain attention she feel it necessary to post semi naked, and according to you, unpixilated, photos of herself all over the net.
”Because she is friendly and encourages others, but won't listen to people trying to drag her down, she encourages idiots?”
I can’t disagree with you there. Certainly a number of her close followers on Massey appear to be idiots
”No, she wasn't at school at the time, but did go on to get a PhD, be a successful horseplayer and poker star.”
Well that’ what she told you. Whether it is true, you can’t possibly know.
”If ever you needed proof that every forum has a certain section of brain dead posters, re-read the garbage you wrote.”
It’s good to see that you are able to respond to my points with a well rounded argument. You will go down well on the Massey forum.
”I am not Maria, Maria is not a close friend of mine.”
Yet you seem to know so much about her. Is it some sort of internet stalking. According to you all that has occurred is a few email exchanges, yet you seem to be obsessed with her.
”She is successful and has brains and beauty.
Men can't stand it, and neither can women.
The world is so superficial.”
I think that says it all, you haven’t met her, haven’t spoken to her yet you think the sun shines out her pixilated bottom. How superficial is that.
The Massey forum is a pretty poor one in relation to other horse racing forums out there, at the present time Maria has three 'backing' threads on the go and all are showing quite heavy losses. All are based on the Massey ratings. However, she did produce a thread that went all of 2009 showing a decent profit. She is human after all then.
Anyone on a forum is anonymous and I find it pointless in discussing whether someone is 'real as they say' or otherwise, unless known to you personally then you cannot possibly find out.
I hope Maria turns those losing threads into profitable ones, anyone who spends so much time and dedication to a cause at the very least deserves our respect.
Anyone on a forum is anonymous and I find it pointless in discussing whether someone is 'real as they say' or otherwise, unless known to you personally then you cannot possibly find out.
I hope Maria turns those losing threads into profitable ones, anyone who spends so much time and dedication to a cause at the very least deserves our respect.
"women feel threatened and men don't take her seriously"
I don't understand why she bothers posting at all then
I don't understand why she bothers posting at all then
I agree 100%. I certainly have no criticism of the time and effort she puts into her own threads on Massey. I do however have a problem with the entourage who feel it necessary to wipe her bottom for her at every opportunity. If she wants to post and make claims of superior intelligents, that has earned her fabulous riches, at the tables and the track, then let her do it herself on a site were she doesn’t have editing privileges and then we will find out just how smart she is. If however, she wants a quiet life then why doesn’t she cut all the bull manure and tell all the hangers on to get a life.
The entity that is Maria has no manners; there was a discussion of the descriptions of the going on Irish tracks on a Massey forum and I threw in my tuppence worth that when the going was described as "yielding" at the Gowran Park and Thurles tracks, this generally equated to "heavy" in the UK UK and correspondingly, "heavy" on those tracks may be classed as unraceable at some UK tracks. I lived for some time in Bennettsbridge, Co. Kilkenny just an ass's roar from Gowran and know both tracks well.
However the Maria entity posted some sarky remark to the effect that she doubted that I had ever been to these two tracks. Totally uncalled for; I had never been any trouble to anyone on Massey.
I know both tracks well and it is clear that the Maria entity is a bit of a bollix.
However the Maria entity posted some sarky remark to the effect that she doubted that I had ever been to these two tracks. Totally uncalled for; I had never been any trouble to anyone on Massey.
I know both tracks well and it is clear that the Maria entity is a bit of a bollix.
So your problem is with her entourage and not her?
I don't think the sun shines, I just don't think she deserves the treatment she gets.
Clearly should have known I can't reason with a jealous woman.
My silence from this point onward indicates the futility of logic against jealousy, nothing more.
I don't think the sun shines, I just don't think she deserves the treatment she gets.
Clearly should have known I can't reason with a jealous woman.
My silence from this point onward indicates the futility of logic against jealousy, nothing more.
Johnny Wad Joined: 08 Jul 06
Replies: 959 25 May 10 13:49
Beat The OverRound - have you met maria ?
Replies: 959 25 May 10 13:49
Beat The OverRound - have you met maria ?
Beattheoverround.
My problems with the EBA thread are as follows.
Maria started to record prices at SP +10% and stopped when she realised the performance at SP + 10% was poor. If she had kept going then there would be no arguments over price as anyone could achieve SP+10%. One of the main crusades by Maria and her followers on Massey is that if you post a system then everyone must be able to achieve your results. Clearly she did not practice what she preached.
She could have easily recorded prices at the time of posting, which again would have been a benchmark difficult to argue with, she chose not to.
She could have recorded the prices she had been matched at, when she had been matched, again she chose not to.
She chose to record prices the only way that could possibly give rise to any doubt and make the whole thread worthless.
As far as I am concerned Maria can record results however she likes but she must have been incredibly naive if she expected people to accept the method she chose, without question, when she chose the only method that could not be validated.
It's not a question of whether people think she cheated or not, it’s a question of there being no way of knowing.
When she was asked questions about prices she published that there was some doubt over she never addressed the issues. There could have been very acceptable explanations, but she chose not to discuss. When she was questioned over reduction factors her response was the same.
The thread could have been beyond reproach if she had addressed the issues people raised, she chose not to, therefore, she cannot expect to be treated with anything other that sceptism. That doesn’t mean she lied or cheated, it simply means from what evidence is available we can’t be sure whether she had a successful method or not.
Whether I like, dislike, or am indifferent about Maria makes no difference. The facts remain the same. If you go through the thread and record the results at SP+10% you will realise that her selection method and staking plan were not the reason for the vast profits. The prices were.
“My silence from this point onward indicates the futility of logic against jealousy, nothing more.”
Of course it does.
Just to make the point once again. Maria could have made the thread bomb proof and beyond reproach, but she didn’t. Therefore all the uncertainty, disbelief and hurtful accusations are of her own making. She knew the level of flack she would received from very early on in the thread and continued to post.
I don’t think her cause is helped by posters such as you. From what you have said so far it seems that you have exchanged a few emails with her, during which time she has sent you a few photographs of herself and told you her life history. I am staggered that she gives so much personal information away to strangers. The reason people don’t think she is real is they can’t imagine anyone would be that stupid.
My problems with the EBA thread are as follows.
Maria started to record prices at SP +10% and stopped when she realised the performance at SP + 10% was poor. If she had kept going then there would be no arguments over price as anyone could achieve SP+10%. One of the main crusades by Maria and her followers on Massey is that if you post a system then everyone must be able to achieve your results. Clearly she did not practice what she preached.
She could have easily recorded prices at the time of posting, which again would have been a benchmark difficult to argue with, she chose not to.
She could have recorded the prices she had been matched at, when she had been matched, again she chose not to.
She chose to record prices the only way that could possibly give rise to any doubt and make the whole thread worthless.
As far as I am concerned Maria can record results however she likes but she must have been incredibly naive if she expected people to accept the method she chose, without question, when she chose the only method that could not be validated.
It's not a question of whether people think she cheated or not, it’s a question of there being no way of knowing.
When she was asked questions about prices she published that there was some doubt over she never addressed the issues. There could have been very acceptable explanations, but she chose not to discuss. When she was questioned over reduction factors her response was the same.
The thread could have been beyond reproach if she had addressed the issues people raised, she chose not to, therefore, she cannot expect to be treated with anything other that sceptism. That doesn’t mean she lied or cheated, it simply means from what evidence is available we can’t be sure whether she had a successful method or not.
Whether I like, dislike, or am indifferent about Maria makes no difference. The facts remain the same. If you go through the thread and record the results at SP+10% you will realise that her selection method and staking plan were not the reason for the vast profits. The prices were.
“My silence from this point onward indicates the futility of logic against jealousy, nothing more.”
Of course it does.
Just to make the point once again. Maria could have made the thread bomb proof and beyond reproach, but she didn’t. Therefore all the uncertainty, disbelief and hurtful accusations are of her own making. She knew the level of flack she would received from very early on in the thread and continued to post.
I don’t think her cause is helped by posters such as you. From what you have said so far it seems that you have exchanged a few emails with her, during which time she has sent you a few photographs of herself and told you her life history. I am staggered that she gives so much personal information away to strangers. The reason people don’t think she is real is they can’t imagine anyone would be that stupid.
Maria may or may not be genuine. I have had correspondence with Maria via e-mail, via private message facility and via instant messenger service. I have seen the same photos which everyone else has. However, I have never seen her via a webcam, I have not heard her voice and nor have I met her in person. Does that mean Maria is not who she says she is? Not necessarily; but it does mean that opportunities for Maria to confirm she is who she claims to be beyond all doubt were not taken. It may be that Maria is who she says she is; but on the limited evidence I have seen, I cannot say on balance that she is.
I have to say the same of Maria’s father. He may well exist and be the all-knowing backing and laying guru that Maria makes him out to be. But once again, I have not seen any evidence acceptable to me that he is. People may tell me that they know him and/or Maria, that they are who they say they are, and that they are as successful as they claim. But unless I feel I can trust their word then I am unlikely to accept it. There are very few people whose word I will accept if I know them only via the internet and have not met them in person.
There is no doubt that Maria’s thread on EBA did not stand up to scrutiny; at first I was impressed by it, until I looked a bit more closely. The reasons why it did not stand up have been discussed above. The supposed success of the thread depended on being able to get matched at the prices stated and until I see acceptable evidence that the bets were placed as described, I cannot conclude that the success was genuine. I suspect that it is highly unlikely that I will never see such evidence.
If someone decides to publish details of their alleged success, they have to accept that others may be unwilling to take their word for this; and if they post results which cannot be verified to the satisfaction of other people, they will be casting doubt on themselves. Removing the posts of anyone who challenges statements made merely exacerbates this. It is much better to leave the posts for all to see and allow readers to reach their own conclusions. If posts are removed then readers are being denied the opportunity to consider all viewpoints. This makes it impossible to reach a sound conclusion. That is certainly the case, and probably the intention, with that infamous thread. There are far too many holes in it.
I agree with the suggestion that they way to take advantage of the short prices prior to drifts that Maria allegedly obtained would be to trade out for a guaranteed profit, thus freeing up the funds which had been tied up and enabling the trader to move on to their next trade. Maria’s father was supposed to have been something big in trading on financial and stock markets, and he allegedly trained Maria in how to use the exchanges. If so, and if she didn’t trade out in the way suggested, then he didn’t train her very well!
I have to say the same of Maria’s father. He may well exist and be the all-knowing backing and laying guru that Maria makes him out to be. But once again, I have not seen any evidence acceptable to me that he is. People may tell me that they know him and/or Maria, that they are who they say they are, and that they are as successful as they claim. But unless I feel I can trust their word then I am unlikely to accept it. There are very few people whose word I will accept if I know them only via the internet and have not met them in person.
There is no doubt that Maria’s thread on EBA did not stand up to scrutiny; at first I was impressed by it, until I looked a bit more closely. The reasons why it did not stand up have been discussed above. The supposed success of the thread depended on being able to get matched at the prices stated and until I see acceptable evidence that the bets were placed as described, I cannot conclude that the success was genuine. I suspect that it is highly unlikely that I will never see such evidence.
If someone decides to publish details of their alleged success, they have to accept that others may be unwilling to take their word for this; and if they post results which cannot be verified to the satisfaction of other people, they will be casting doubt on themselves. Removing the posts of anyone who challenges statements made merely exacerbates this. It is much better to leave the posts for all to see and allow readers to reach their own conclusions. If posts are removed then readers are being denied the opportunity to consider all viewpoints. This makes it impossible to reach a sound conclusion. That is certainly the case, and probably the intention, with that infamous thread. There are far too many holes in it.
I agree with the suggestion that they way to take advantage of the short prices prior to drifts that Maria allegedly obtained would be to trade out for a guaranteed profit, thus freeing up the funds which had been tied up and enabling the trader to move on to their next trade. Maria’s father was supposed to have been something big in trading on financial and stock markets, and he allegedly trained Maria in how to use the exchanges. If so, and if she didn’t trade out in the way suggested, then he didn’t train her very well!
I would like to believe the thread is true and so would many. But the people who raise the questions about the prices obtained have a valid point and it is the only major flaw with the Maria's thread. It can't be proven.
If you look at the D.ily D..key website they are claiming to make massive profits but all prices are quoted are at SP. Betfair prices are on average 20% better than SP on the bigger priced selections. When you build this factor into their results profits are virtually wiped out.
Regards Trademate
If you look at the D.ily D..key website they are claiming to make massive profits but all prices are quoted are at SP. Betfair prices are on average 20% better than SP on the bigger priced selections. When you build this factor into their results profits are virtually wiped out.
Regards Trademate
The thread is a fake, Maria is actually a 54 year old farmer from Hereford called Roy.
It looks like maria (Beat The OverRound) is sulking because this is one forum she (he) has no control over the criticism that is levelled at them. Personally I couldn't care less at the validity of their thread or systems, nor the reasons behind the thread or what 'Maria' is. However, I reckon Avocado and nightshift man are very close to the truth about the identity of Maria despite their predictions being said tongue in cheek. On the internet you can masquerade as who or what you like. Some people are naive and easily fooled or are weak and inadequate, and therefore have a need to believe.
This Maria character is a classic case of someone that has a sad lonely existence in the real world so has created and developed a fantasy online persona in which to escape. Good luck to them, whatever floats your boat but just to say that, Beat The Overound (Maria), there are plenty of people that aren’t easily lead!
This Maria character is a classic case of someone that has a sad lonely existence in the real world so has created and developed a fantasy online persona in which to escape. Good luck to them, whatever floats your boat but just to say that, Beat The Overound (Maria), there are plenty of people that aren’t easily lead!
The only comment I would add to the Maria debate is that her grasp of the English Language , its nuances and phraseology are quite remarkable for someone from Riga
Johnny
I have done some digging and i think i maybe not a millon miles away from the truth tbh
And yes if she did come Riga ffs she speaks better kings english than myself, saying that they must have great schools there
I have done some digging and i think i maybe not a millon miles away from the truth tbh
And yes if she did come Riga ffs she speaks better kings english than myself, saying that they must have great schools there
Laying at (or close to SP) is possible, only problem is getting large amounts of money matched.
To me it doesn't really matter if she is who she says she is. I read her thread and although I was skeptical it gave me hope and I started designing my own 'systems'. After couple of years I found out above mentioned: laying at or close to SP IS possible, I tried it myself, only trouble is I was using very small stakes because of testing an unproven system. It is reasonable to assume that using large stakes reduces the performance.
One other thing: It never ceases to amaze me how much negativity exists in the world. So what if she is a he and (s)he is lying about personality? I also thought she was showing off talking about shoes - it drove me crazy, so she has to be a woman. Or Bernadette Bassenger fan. But to me that is beside the point.
After reading the thread I had two questions:
1. Is it possible to have a 85%+ laying system over longer periods of time with odds under 11 (average around 6,7)?
2. Will the selections be matched using large stakes (thousands)?
The staking system was irrelevant to me, if level staking worked I could always use Kelly staking. Cut long story short: There is a great possibility that performance of a system was legit.
To me it doesn't really matter if she is who she says she is. I read her thread and although I was skeptical it gave me hope and I started designing my own 'systems'. After couple of years I found out above mentioned: laying at or close to SP IS possible, I tried it myself, only trouble is I was using very small stakes because of testing an unproven system. It is reasonable to assume that using large stakes reduces the performance.
One other thing: It never ceases to amaze me how much negativity exists in the world. So what if she is a he and (s)he is lying about personality? I also thought she was showing off talking about shoes - it drove me crazy, so she has to be a woman. Or Bernadette Bassenger fan. But to me that is beside the point.
After reading the thread I had two questions:
1. Is it possible to have a 85%+ laying system over longer periods of time with odds under 11 (average around 6,7)?
2. Will the selections be matched using large stakes (thousands)?
The staking system was irrelevant to me, if level staking worked I could always use Kelly staking. Cut long story short: There is a great possibility that performance of a system was legit.
Trademate 23 May 10 23:32
"Did you question the prices of her lays and were you banned."
Yes and yes.
"Did you question the prices of her lays and were you banned."
Yes and yes.
Norma Stitz
You were banned from the EBA forum or Adrian Massey forum ?
Were you banned from EBA site when thread was operating in 2005 ?
Regards Trademate
You were banned from the EBA forum or Adrian Massey forum ?
Were you banned from EBA site when thread was operating in 2005 ?
Regards Trademate
O.K. Forget Maria for a moment.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?
The answer is yes, when you are selecting certain horses.
Is it possible she stopped recording prices for a completely different reason(s)?
The answer is yes.
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
Is it possible that someone living in a country is not that nationality?
Yes
Whatever you believe or disbelieve, the answers may not necessarily lie in the conclusions you've drawn on face value.
When someone says the laid a horse at a price, how do you justify whether it's true or not?
The argument is redundant.
It is possible that everything is kosher, just as it is possible that it is not, but then what would be the point unless you were mentally disturbed.
If you are a mentally disturbed butcher from Birmingham, you don't write in the manner she writes, and you don't come up with that sort of staking plan.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?
The answer is yes, when you are selecting certain horses.
Is it possible she stopped recording prices for a completely different reason(s)?
The answer is yes.
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
Is it possible that someone living in a country is not that nationality?
Yes
Whatever you believe or disbelieve, the answers may not necessarily lie in the conclusions you've drawn on face value.
When someone says the laid a horse at a price, how do you justify whether it's true or not?
The argument is redundant.
It is possible that everything is kosher, just as it is possible that it is not, but then what would be the point unless you were mentally disturbed.
If you are a mentally disturbed butcher from Birmingham, you don't write in the manner she writes, and you don't come up with that sort of staking plan.
O.K. Forget Maria for a moment.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
I thought we had established that maria was either a scouser or a farmer from Hereford
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
I thought we had established that maria was either a scouser or a farmer from Hereford
IF Maria and her Father do come from Riga ... why the interest and expertise in English and Irish Racing ?
"Norma Stitz
You were banned from the EBA forum or Adrian Massey forum ?
Were you banned from EBA site when thread was operating in 2005 ?
Regards Trademate "
Trademate, Norma Stitz was known as Mayoman on Massey and EBA. He got banned because he was a very unpleasant person. He was, however, generaly spot on with his comments.
You were banned from the EBA forum or Adrian Massey forum ?
Were you banned from EBA site when thread was operating in 2005 ?
Regards Trademate "
Trademate, Norma Stitz was known as Mayoman on Massey and EBA. He got banned because he was a very unpleasant person. He was, however, generaly spot on with his comments.
O.K. Forget Maria for a moment.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?
The answer is yes, when you are selecting certain horses.
Is it possible she stopped recording prices for a completely different reason(s)?
The answer is yes.
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
Is it possible that someone living in a country is not that nationality?
Yes
Whatever you believe or disbelieve, the answers may not necessarily lie in the conclusions you've drawn on face value.
When someone says the laid a horse at a price, how do you justify whether it's true or not?
The argument is redundant.
It is possible that everything is kosher, just as it is possible that it is not, but then what would be the point unless you were mentally disturbed.
If you are a mentally disturbed butcher from Birmingham, you don't write in the manner she writes, and you don't come up with that sort of staking plan.
I think Beat The OverRound has some good points here. Especially this one: "Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?"
If you know what you are doing it would be easy to lay the right selections in that band. Personally I think what "Maria" (or whoever she was) did is possible. Unfortunately there are a lot of losers who get jealous of successful people and like to deride them in any way they can to make themselves seem important. The tall poppie syndrome is always alive and well when it comes to cutting down successful systems.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?
The answer is yes, when you are selecting certain horses.
Is it possible she stopped recording prices for a completely different reason(s)?
The answer is yes.
Is it possible the Maria persona is fake?
Yes
Is it possible the Maria persona is real?
Yes
Is it possible that someone living in a country is not that nationality?
Yes
Whatever you believe or disbelieve, the answers may not necessarily lie in the conclusions you've drawn on face value.
When someone says the laid a horse at a price, how do you justify whether it's true or not?
The argument is redundant.
It is possible that everything is kosher, just as it is possible that it is not, but then what would be the point unless you were mentally disturbed.
If you are a mentally disturbed butcher from Birmingham, you don't write in the manner she writes, and you don't come up with that sort of staking plan.
I think Beat The OverRound has some good points here. Especially this one: "Is it possible to lay all selections less than 11/1 less than 10% above SP?"
If you know what you are doing it would be easy to lay the right selections in that band. Personally I think what "Maria" (or whoever she was) did is possible. Unfortunately there are a lot of losers who get jealous of successful people and like to deride them in any way they can to make themselves seem important. The tall poppie syndrome is always alive and well when it comes to cutting down successful systems.
Did any more info surface? Was it an overweight builder from essex, a scouse horse trainer, Massey, a girl from latvia who doctored the SP, or what?
Has she/he done any more public betting?
Has she/he done any more public betting?
"She" has taken over the Massey site apparently.... and plays a lot of poker now, Should be pics of her about if she plays pokerlive should there not,.
There is no beautiful Latvian layer ffs. People are so gullible
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