General Betting
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just wondering if anyone can recommend any decent general or horse betting books that would be worth a read.
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Depends what you are wanting them for?
None are the holy grail, the form book is essential reading for picking winners. |
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better off "reading" the Betfair markets - holds clues that no form book covers ;)
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Pjay 123 ... Come Fly with The Butterfly ..John Mort Green About 1970... so out of print now .But if you can get your hands on a copy ..Its a bloody good read .. And packed with common sense .. by the way ... Mort Green was pro Gambler from OS .. came to the UK for a couple of flat seasons ....... What a Guy ... well worth a read ... I got the book .... but it aint for sale at any price ...
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Pjay 123 .. about the same time ..The BBC .. Did a 30 mins slot on a guy called . John Gough ........ Think it was called ... Last Of The Big Punters ... thats well worth a look at ....
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As far as books about betting/markets in general are concerned, the best I have come across are:
Epstein "Theory of Gambling and Statistical Logic" Haigh "Taking Chances" Tijms "Understanding Probability" (this is not specifically about betting, but does cover a lot of betting-related material that you need to know (eg. Kelly staking)) Mandelbrot "The (Mis)Behaviour of Markets" - brilliant account of how it is that our classic market models are flawed because they lack the requisite mathematical complexity. Ones to avoid like the plague are: Paul "Lay, Back and Think of Winning" (I could summarise the advice given in this book in one sentence: "If you see a large amount of money appear on one side of the market, assume that it will move in the corresponding direction" !!). Buchdahl "Fixed odds sports betting" - not quite as bad as Paul's book, but pretty awful nonetheless. I read an interview with Buchdahl who admitted that he has moved on from betting to selling (football) data/software because he wasn't very good at it! Taleb "The Black Swan" - I know that some people rave about this, but I found it terribly confused (particularly when he was writing about the subjects that I know well). Most of it is just a very bad rehash of Mandelbrot (above). |
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RP books on sport betting and exchages ok for an interesting general read.
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A full list!
http://www.nyproblemgambling.org/library.htm |
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One less copy of Come Fly with The Butterfly available on abebooks.co.uk. I just grabbed one for a fiver, got to be worth that! Still a couple more left on there.
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Trading Risk by Kenneth L. Grant is a highly useful book that focuses on risk management to maximize returns. Especially useful as an introduction to risk management, a lot of analysis of my results is based on principles from this book. It really hammers home the point that any small positive changes you can make will have a large positive effect in the long run.
Fortune's Formula by William Poundstone is a highly entertaining read that draws parallels between gambling and investing, focusing on using scientific methods. |
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Anything by Quirin
Improve your betting .... by SmarterSig Watching racehorses ... Hutson |
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Contrarian, you're a nimrod. That Lay Back and Think of winning book got me into the exchanges as a novice, so did Betfair For Dummies and Profit on the Exchanges. They are all good primers for those of us getting to grips with this stuff. Don't assume we're all geniuses, mate!
Happy reading. |
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ManOnTheMoon,
I have nothing against more basic introductions. The problem I have with 'Lay, Back and thing of winning' is that he suggests that making money on the exchanges is just a matter of following the weight of money. I'm looking at the front cover right now, too, which says the following: "Guaranteed winning systems for: football, tennis, golf, cricket, . . . " This is highly misleading - obviously the 'system' he proposes is a piece of sh*t - not guaranteed to win at all - and also he gives NO coverage to most of the sports listed at all. Just had a look at the index, and golf, for instance, gets precisely one word of treatment where is occurs in the list of sports you can bet on at Betfair! Unless you are actually Nigel Pau yourself, I can't think why you would want to defend it. |
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The way lay back and think of winning is presented, looks typical of get rick quick schemes.
"Send off now for your information pack on how to make £x investing in stocks / real estate / setting up 'your own' business etc." And what is this about guaranteed winning systems? If I buy this book and lose money following the proposed systems, is the author going to refund me? |
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Game Set and Matched by Ian Fletcher has got to be the worst book ever on betting
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A very good book on Sport is the one I picked up in my local library the other day is ''The meaning of Sport'' by the excellent Simon Barnes. Well worth a read.
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i'd like to read the Art of Legging book - must look out for it somewhere.
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value betting
by mark coton (former pricewise writer) aesculus press (now gone i think) |
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Hey Contrarian - I guess that's the good thing about books, our views on them are subjective. I hear what you're saying about the naff cover on Lay Back. I just found it useful a couple of years ago when there wasn't much info about. At least it got me through the basics when I didn't know what the hec a betting exchange was.
Plenty of titles out there that do this now, though nothing beats just getting stuck in yourself. Another book I'd recommend is Against the Gods: the remarkable story of risk. Excellent book that covers gambling, risk and chance from the Greek era right up to the present. |
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the smart money by michael konik......wont help you win but a good read
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Fair enough Manonthemoon.
Agree about Against the Gods - excellent book. |
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zipper
"The BBC .. Did a 30 mins slot on a guy called . John Gough ........ Think it was called ... Last Of The Big Punters " And what happened to John Gough, anybody know ? Remember he had a tipping line as well 'Goughsguide' |
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john gough ran a tipping line in the 70s think he went to Australia later.
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sgt bilko 15 Jan 17:51
the smart money by michael konik......wont help you win but a good read I read that one too, entertaining for sure but as you say wont really help you win on an exchange. |
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patrick simpsons diary of a proffessional gambler
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The best ever book (imo) about horse race betting hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet, But there are one or two on here who know what it is. It puts you ahead of the game and puts you straight. For me, it is THE bible! It's as good aread now as it was when it came out over 20 years ago but is no longer available unless you can get a copy somewhere like e-bay. ;)
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what is it fastbearforum
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fineform by clive holt?
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twenty years ago , that would be coton or Mordin
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Mike Atherton (the ex cricketer) has wrote an excellent book on gambling . Its not a book about stats or even tips but the whole history and lifestyle of gambling .He evens interviews a couple of forumites on here in it!!
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I found Buchdahl's "Fixed Odds Sports Betting" useful for developing my approach to betting. John Haigh's "Taking Chances" is an excellent book on probability theory in lots of applications. And his childhood hero was Len Shackleton so it has to be good! For US sports, "Weighing the odds in sports betting" by Yeo has lots of good stuff on how to find value bets.
"The Football Betting Science" by Gary Christie gets my vote for worst book on betting that I've ever bought. It's little more than a lage pamphlet and there's precious little science involved. |
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Against the crowd by Alan Potts
Value Betting - Mark Coton Betting for a Living - Nick Mordin Lots of timeless good sense in all three. |
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The Racing Post books ''definitive guide to betting exchanges'' and ''the definitive guide to Betting on Sport''.
Both worth a read. |
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Few books ai have found useful.
1.high probability trading by marcel link. 2.The second bounce of the ball By Cohen. 3.Fooled by Randomness. taleb. In black swan i didn't find any value few repetition from Fooled by randomness. |
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Market wizards. Interview with top traders.By jack schwager.
It is leaning more on more financial markets, but the principle are the same and most of the top traders started in sport. I will say excellent value for money. |
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most of the top traders started in sport
Eh?? I don't think so. |
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Game Set and Matched by Ian Fletcher has got to be the worst book ever on betting - Il agree with that.
Teh second worst book is 'The art of bookmaking' explains nothing useful and is more of a memoir than than a book. Buy 'Art of Legging' Great book on horse racing and book making in general |
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When i say most i am talking about the ones featuring in the book. They have experience with poker, blackjack and sport. The ones interviewed in market wizards and feature in the book.
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It shouldn't be suprising because you need same qualities on both cases.
Good Plan, Emotional discipline, Good money management (risk control), Plan exit before get in, patient, Ability to deal with losses, Consistency, independence (do your own thinking), Experience (watching the markets to get the feel how they works). |
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Plan exit before getin?
That does not seem like pure thinking to me. |