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in the futue ,including those whose lifetime of the balance will soon turn turtle ?
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2% when it was first introduced , but i would expect its more now due to the £1000 allowance only being once per lifetime instead of 60 weeks
Once youve hit a grand all winning punters pay pc. . . 100%
Incorrect, bridgeboy. I don't imagine the withdrawal of the £1000 allowance will have affected the percentage very much at all.
What percentage of winning punters pay a bigger overall percentage of their winnings in commission than the pc payers do? 98%? So how come it's the other 2% who do all the fkng whinging? It makes it all the worse when you consider many of them paid practically feck all for about 8 years.
You can cut it any way you like - but its gonna be much much higher than 2%
It depends on how you win. If you are a high volume low strike rate player you would not pay PC.
I know people who over a week may have £30k of winning bets -3% commission (£900) leaving £29.1k and lose £27k. For PC purposes they have paid £855 in commission on net winnings of £2.1k which is 40%, They win, Betfair win, everybody's happy.
I know people who over a week may have £30k of winning bets -3% commission (£900) leaving £29.1k and lose £27k. For PC purposes they have paid £855 in commission on net winnings of £2.1k which is 40%, They win, Betfair win, everybody's happy.
i have to lose 5 for every 6 i win to avoid being in the PC
Come the time when everyone has burnt their allowance , reckon at least 50% . Never mind what you do ........ trade , straight lay or back , whatever . More than half the consistent winners will end up in the net imo
ActiveX 06 Mar 12:16
It depends on how you win. If you are a high volume low strike rate player you would not pay PC.
I know people who over a week may have £30k of winning bets -3% commission (£900) leaving £29.1k and lose £27k. For PC purposes they have paid £855 in commission on net winnings of £2.1k which is 40%, They win, Betfair win, everybody's happy.
This only works if you're arbing across markets (or at least hedging across markets / making negatively correlated bets etc.) or have a huge bank (hundreds of thousands). Otherwise the equity swings will kill you. That's why it's difficult to avoid PC. Whichever way you cut it, some are essentially being punished for excellent performance.
Excellent performance can be seen as a combination of high profit and low volatility. If this ratio is 'too good', you pay PC. Not all consistent winners get caught in the net, as those arbing/trading across markets will generate enough commission to avoid it.
I've been a little too successful in avoiding PC by having some large losses... The fact is that like commission, you never get PC back, so it is very tempting to look for ways to avoid it. This should always be a very distant second to actually making money though!
Anyway, not that many will pay. 5-10% of long term players maybe? And most of them will pay rarely. Unless they decide the charge to 30, 40 or 90%....
It depends on how you win. If you are a high volume low strike rate player you would not pay PC.
I know people who over a week may have £30k of winning bets -3% commission (£900) leaving £29.1k and lose £27k. For PC purposes they have paid £855 in commission on net winnings of £2.1k which is 40%, They win, Betfair win, everybody's happy.
This only works if you're arbing across markets (or at least hedging across markets / making negatively correlated bets etc.) or have a huge bank (hundreds of thousands). Otherwise the equity swings will kill you. That's why it's difficult to avoid PC. Whichever way you cut it, some are essentially being punished for excellent performance.
Excellent performance can be seen as a combination of high profit and low volatility. If this ratio is 'too good', you pay PC. Not all consistent winners get caught in the net, as those arbing/trading across markets will generate enough commission to avoid it.
I've been a little too successful in avoiding PC by having some large losses... The fact is that like commission, you never get PC back, so it is very tempting to look for ways to avoid it. This should always be a very distant second to actually making money though!
Anyway, not that many will pay. 5-10% of long term players maybe? And most of them will pay rarely. Unless they decide the charge to 30, 40 or 90%....
Have Betfair ever given the justification for why they will not refund PC charges for those punters whose accounts shift from being highly profitable to merely profitable and below their PC threshold. We know why they do it (they want to keep the money) I'm just curious as to whether they've offered any spin on it. After all, if it is supposed to be a charge based on the lifetime success of a customer, whenever the customer falls back below the threshold they should experience a rebate...
Yes kind of like taxes in the stock market,pay on good and bad year rebates.
They say they don't give refunds because you'd have winning accounts offering losing accounts massive value so as to cancel out the profit on the former (thus triggering a rebate) while the other account still wouldn't qualify for pc's. You can do that just now but you have to do it in advance of making the profit.
Hmmm. I think next football season I'm going to be forced into making large in site bets on different markets that cancel each other out. I lay long odds shots in sport and am paying the charge 4 weeks out of 5 and it is really adding up now.
Although paying PC is annoying the fact that you qualify is only ever a good thing, and the more you have to pay the better. I find it ridiculous when people say things like "thank god I don't qualify for PC" because what they're really saying is "thank god I keep placing losing bets". The thing to remeber is that the more PC you're paying the LESS comission you're paying overall. A week where you pay 15% PC is an absolutely brilliant week- sure you have to fork out a chunk on wednesday but that's not nearly as bad as losing bets on all the other days, which is what everyone else is doing.
You don't need to avoid PC, if anything a more sensible goal is to try to pay as much PC as possible. It might not feel good, but it's how you make the most money.
You don't need to avoid PC, if anything a more sensible goal is to try to pay as much PC as possible. It might not feel good, but it's how you make the most money.
Thing is aye robot, it's difficult to mentally switch off from the terms and conditions I signed up to the site with- that there will be 5% commission (minus a bonus based on how much I bet) deducted from winning bets. Suddenly seven years after joining, the terms and conditions have changed, apparently to target API users and traders, categories I don't fall into.
If the argument is that the PC money is used to procure new blood for the site then fair enough. I don't think there's anyone on here who wouldn't gladly place bets against the inhabitants of Betfair's Front Room. However, as a user of the site for a long time, I would suggest Betfair's MO is to turn the site into the biggest FOBT running for any new blood that does arrive...
If the argument is that the PC money is used to procure new blood for the site then fair enough. I don't think there's anyone on here who wouldn't gladly place bets against the inhabitants of Betfair's Front Room. However, as a user of the site for a long time, I would suggest Betfair's MO is to turn the site into the biggest FOBT running for any new blood that does arrive...
What sumo said, with the additional extra that since the inception of the PC (or whatever that word is supposed to be), the site has become even more unstable than it was before, and it was always unstable in the first place.
With an extra charge I think it's fair to expect quality to at least not decline, but I have to switch browsers on a daily basis just to get markets to load these days. Not acceptable for someone as uncomputer savvy as myself, and certainly unacceptable when I know that there are people out there who have even less of a clue than me and probably just give up rather than mess around with different browsers and suchlike.
With an extra charge I think it's fair to expect quality to at least not decline, but I have to switch browsers on a daily basis just to get markets to load these days. Not acceptable for someone as uncomputer savvy as myself, and certainly unacceptable when I know that there are people out there who have even less of a clue than me and probably just give up rather than mess around with different browsers and suchlike.
agree with aye robot, although I should say that once you reach sub 3% commission, it's so easy to avoid PC, that it would be foolish not to imo.
Having said that, if you are constantly able to use your full bank on profitable bets, minimizing PC may be a waste of time.
Hi. I'm £2,800 in profit from the 1st of jan this year and have won this in bets from 147 markets. My commision rate is 4.88%/4.9%. This pc charge business really confuses me! Please could anyone tell me when i am likely to be affected by it? Thanks
https://premiumcharge.betfair.com/PremiumPortal/portal
Keep an eye on your account via this link.
Keep an eye on your account via this link.
cheers inter. have checked that and have emailed betfair to find out more. thanks
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