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How many have betfair banned from posting.Not a mention of the unfair pc charge for a day or to now.
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About time then , I hate the PC and think it's a disgrace. Betfair only itroduced it to increase their bottom line , all others reasons stated are only BS of the highest standard.
Never mind the pc, I would be interested to know how much money (customers money) is held in BF account at any one time and how much daily interest THEY earn from that alone!
When we bet here its all virtual I would imagine, just numbers on a screen until you ask for a transfer back into your account. They must be holding millions and more than likely on daily interest, the income potential from this alone is huge, so why the PC to? some people are just greedy...
When we bet here its all virtual I would imagine, just numbers on a screen until you ask for a transfer back into your account. They must be holding millions and more than likely on daily interest, the income potential from this alone is huge, so why the PC to? some people are just greedy...
Could be wrong here but seem to remember a figure of £9 million being mentioned for interest a few years back.Shame the interest rates have dropped BF ,might only be £4 million this year.
Toenail Cheeseburger has seemingly been banned for life for making comments about those paragons of virtue - the sainted David Evans and his boy Richard. The place is going to the dogs.
The PC was introduced in Sep 08 about the same time as interest rates dropped. Not that I'm suggesting anything.
Paddy i do not know anyone that pays them20percent,but i know a few that would be charged if they carried on playing on there accounts.
so they empty there accs and deposit only a fraction of there withdrawal lost intrest for betunfair.
so they empty there accs and deposit only a fraction of there withdrawal lost intrest for betunfair.
a quick look at company accounts show how much interest is made on customer deposits per annum.
From memory i think it was just under £10 million for 2007-2008. sure someone can confirm the figures.
Given accounting updates in Aug 2009 showed user deposits exceeded £1 billion (yes billion) for the previous financial year one can assume the interest figure could be larger though one suspects rates will be lower.
From memory i think it was just under £10 million for 2007-2008. sure someone can confirm the figures.
Given accounting updates in Aug 2009 showed user deposits exceeded £1 billion (yes billion) for the previous financial year one can assume the interest figure could be larger though one suspects rates will be lower.
a quick google is quite interesting. About 3k is deposited per minute and in April 2009 around £240 million was held in ring-fenced accounts.
Feck N. Eejit 17 Jan 12:17
Toenail Cheeseburger has seemingly been banned for life for making comments about those paragons of virtue - the sainted David Evans and his boy Richard. The place is going to the dogs.
I bet you miss him don't you? ;)
Toenail Cheeseburger has seemingly been banned for life for making comments about those paragons of virtue - the sainted David Evans and his boy Richard. The place is going to the dogs.
I bet you miss him don't you? ;)
tony cheesburger banned for good?
that is a sad loss
that is a sad loss
1) betfair cant pay interest on deposits? unless the get regulated as bank or depositing institue (which they are not)
2) do ladbrokes/hills etc pay interest on deposits? Not to my knowledge
3) can you keep a minmal balance - yes.
end of complaint.
2) do ladbrokes/hills etc pay interest on deposits? Not to my knowledge
3) can you keep a minmal balance - yes.
end of complaint.
The Magician...I think you may have grabbed the wrong stick, never mind the wrong end...
Its not about being paid interest on our accounts, its about how much money BF make in addition to the commision and PC, in interest earned on OUR money in THERE account...its millions
Its not about being paid interest on our accounts, its about how much money BF make in addition to the commision and PC, in interest earned on OUR money in THERE account...its millions
Do you expect them not to earn money on it?
They have to put the money in banks and spread it around to reduce risk and exposure to any one institution going broke. They are going to get interest on it, I am not sure I see the point here.
They have to put the money in banks and spread it around to reduce risk and exposure to any one institution going broke. They are going to get interest on it, I am not sure I see the point here.
Active....I think the point is even if you have a 5 figure bank on here. You don't get any allowance for it when they come to looking for their premiun charges.
So as well as halfing your commission you already paid when they do your charge they also ignored the fact they are making money off you from your bank......
Its all one way with them. :0 .....Cheers
So as well as halfing your commission you already paid when they do your charge they also ignored the fact they are making money off you from your bank......
Its all one way with them. :0 .....Cheers
paddy
can you tell which highstreet bookies or even online bookies pay interest on customer deposits... I might move some funds there, if the rate is good
cheers
can you tell which highstreet bookies or even online bookies pay interest on customer deposits... I might move some funds there, if the rate is good
cheers
The Magician (100) 17 Jan 22:44
1) betfair cant pay interest on deposits? unless the get regulated as bank or depositing institue (which they are not)
2) do ladbrokes/hills etc pay interest on deposits? Not to my knowledge
3) can you keep a minmal balance - yes.
end of complaint.
I wouldn't be able to make money in the same way I do now if there were no betting exchanges. I've certainly never held significant sums with any non betting exchange bookmaker.
Regarding point 3: If you use a large balance to make a relatively small but very consistent relative consistent profit, let's say a £2million bank to make £150,000 pa, you will be hammered by premium charges, which may mean it is no longer viable (if interest rates are good).
I think this matter is not very interesting for Betfair as so few people are affected.
But no-one can deny that someone with a £10,000 bank making £1000 per week and paying an average £100 per week Premium Charge is is getting a much better deal than someone with a £500,000 bank making £1000 per week and also paying an average £100 per week PC. The second customer will make Betfair significantly more money.
In any case Betfair are unable to offer a discount on PC based on balance size/interest received for the same reason you mention in point one.
Charges are always going to be skewed in favour of one group or another though. I work with it the best I can.
1) betfair cant pay interest on deposits? unless the get regulated as bank or depositing institue (which they are not)
2) do ladbrokes/hills etc pay interest on deposits? Not to my knowledge
3) can you keep a minmal balance - yes.
end of complaint.
I wouldn't be able to make money in the same way I do now if there were no betting exchanges. I've certainly never held significant sums with any non betting exchange bookmaker.
Regarding point 3: If you use a large balance to make a relatively small but very consistent relative consistent profit, let's say a £2million bank to make £150,000 pa, you will be hammered by premium charges, which may mean it is no longer viable (if interest rates are good).
I think this matter is not very interesting for Betfair as so few people are affected.
But no-one can deny that someone with a £10,000 bank making £1000 per week and paying an average £100 per week Premium Charge is is getting a much better deal than someone with a £500,000 bank making £1000 per week and also paying an average £100 per week PC. The second customer will make Betfair significantly more money.
In any case Betfair are unable to offer a discount on PC based on balance size/interest received for the same reason you mention in point one.
Charges are always going to be skewed in favour of one group or another though. I work with it the best I can.
The Magician...what are you on about? I think this conversation has gone way above your head....Ive explained its not about us the customer earning interest..
To make it clear for you, big players have big banks, which BF make a lot of interest on, they also make a huge sum on the same people with commision charges,and now PC as well..
To make it clear for you, big players have big banks, which BF make a lot of interest on, they also make a huge sum on the same people with commision charges,and now PC as well..
1) betfair cant pay interest on deposits? unless the get regulated as bank or depositing institue (which they are not)
I don't think people want interest but they would like credit for it when it comes to their PC charges.
Nobody is breaking any laws by allowing a allowance for the fact somebody has a decent sum in their betting bank with them.
You can bet if it was the other way they could find a solution. :^0 ......Cheers
I don't think people want interest but they would like credit for it when it comes to their PC charges.
Nobody is breaking any laws by allowing a allowance for the fact somebody has a decent sum in their betting bank with them.
You can bet if it was the other way they could find a solution. :^0 ......Cheers
blessington
credit or favour would viewed by the regulators as interest.... (i have been told)
and makes sense....
credit or favour would viewed by the regulators as interest.... (i have been told)
and makes sense....
MAGICAN....Thats BULL anyway......If a guy can create Premiun Charges there should be any problem thinking up a new pc charge structure for people who have over X amount on deposit.
You don't honestly think if it was the other way around, or they had a serious rival targeting these clients,..... they would be sitting on their hands. :^0
You don't honestly think if it was the other way around, or they had a serious rival targeting these clients,..... they would be sitting on their hands. :^0
Good points. I've withdrawn 30% of my bank, and another 30% is going over the next couple of days.
I may even have some code written that maintains the balance I need.
Magician,
when betquack were trying to get more business, they gave me a higher discount rate off the 5% handling charge,although liquidity is so dire I rarely use them.
Surely BF could give 100% off if some clients held larger than average amounts in their accounts?
when betquack were trying to get more business, they gave me a higher discount rate off the 5% handling charge,although liquidity is so dire I rarely use them.
Surely BF could give 100% off if some clients held larger than average amounts in their accounts?
Surely BF could give 100% off if some clients held larger than average amounts in their accounts?
Then they would be accused of discriminating against the poorer punters, like me. They can't win.
Then they would be accused of discriminating against the poorer punters, like me. They can't win.
The Magician (100) 18 Jan 22:43
blessington
credit or favour would viewed by the regulators as interest.... (i have been told)
and makes sense....
This is what they told me also.
INVESTOR....Probably the same crowd that told Andrew Black and co 10 years ago that exchange betting would never be allowed.
All your doing is giving DISCOUNT to your customers who are putting less pressure on your accounts department by not using the deposit or withdraw facilty as often as your customers who bet and deposit or withdraw daily, weekly, monthly, or whenever.
If that is considered some sort of offence.... G0d save British business from bureaucracy :^0
All your doing is giving DISCOUNT to your customers who are putting less pressure on your accounts department by not using the deposit or withdraw facilty as often as your customers who bet and deposit or withdraw daily, weekly, monthly, or whenever.
If that is considered some sort of offence.... G0d save British business from bureaucracy :^0
One of the big poker sites got started by paying 10% interest on balance (obviously in better banking times) fwiw.
ahhhh, those were the days :(
ahhhh, those were the days :(
Betfair have to pay the banks for deposits and withdrawels. The bulk of those expenses will be down to losers but why should pc payers with large deposits subsidise them? Let's make the site even less attractive to anyone that doesn't want to play money ping pong by passing those charges on to the customer.
While we're at it, betfair babes should be sent round to pc payer's houses to give them a blow job. Losers, and even winners paying 90% of their profits in commission, will just have to settle for a ham shank. If a layer and backer have an even 50K and there's a trader in between who's guaranteed himself 1p profit we all know the trader's supplied 100K of liquidity because the layer and backer would never otherwise have met so let's give that penny pinching wealth creator the respect he deserves. FFS betfair play the game.
While we're at it, betfair babes should be sent round to pc payer's houses to give them a blow job. Losers, and even winners paying 90% of their profits in commission, will just have to settle for a ham shank. If a layer and backer have an even 50K and there's a trader in between who's guaranteed himself 1p profit we all know the trader's supplied 100K of liquidity because the layer and backer would never otherwise have met so let's give that penny pinching wealth creator the respect he deserves. FFS betfair play the game.
And another thing you thoughtless betfair b@stards. Why can't those paying for fast pics claim expenses against premium charges?
INJUSTICES LIKE THIS MAKE ME SO MAD.
INJUSTICES LIKE THIS MAKE ME SO MAD.
Interest paid to betfair in their 09 accounts was £3.875M Compared to £8m in '08. In the chairmans statement on the accounts this is due to reduced interest rates and the fact that they are depositing customers money across various banks that are safe rather than to produce revenue.
Interest paid to betfair in their 09 accounts was £3.875M Compared to £8m in '08
Is there any other business in the world where a company has made £12 MILLION in interest in two years off there customer funds and just keep it for themselves?
I suppose nice work if you can get it.
But very hard to understand why they feel they can't allow me some credit off my bank before looking for premiun charges off me.
........................................................................
PS...Sold my house recently the deal closed on the Friday and my solictor paid me £40 interest that he said it earned over the weekend while sitting in his account.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose..........Cheers
Is there any other business in the world where a company has made £12 MILLION in interest in two years off there customer funds and just keep it for themselves?
I suppose nice work if you can get it.
But very hard to understand why they feel they can't allow me some credit off my bank before looking for premiun charges off me.
........................................................................
PS...Sold my house recently the deal closed on the Friday and my solictor paid me £40 interest that he said it earned over the weekend while sitting in his account.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose..........Cheers
I don't know what your on about Feck but thats not unusual. :^0
It was just tranferred into my account and is still there intacted at least the last time I looked. :0
It was just tranferred into my account and is still there intacted at least the last time I looked. :0
I was talking about betfair's charges as they would have to be offset against the 12 million.
Sure why would Betfair charge commission at all if they had no charges of any sort to meet.
Every business face charges of some sort. That how they decide to price their product.
What unusual here would be your more profitable customer ie, bigger bank bigger bets,
is subsidizing the more expensive customer to maintain.
ie.. The small bank guy who cashes in his ***** or deposits them daily weekly monthly or when ever....
Since surely the more bank tranactions the higher the bank charges
Most business like Betfair as they get bigger are more interested in getting rid of the little unprofitable guys not flippant subsidizing them from there best customer funds. :0 .......Cheers
Every business face charges of some sort. That how they decide to price their product.
What unusual here would be your more profitable customer ie, bigger bank bigger bets,
is subsidizing the more expensive customer to maintain.
ie.. The small bank guy who cashes in his ***** or deposits them daily weekly monthly or when ever....
Since surely the more bank tranactions the higher the bank charges
Most business like Betfair as they get bigger are more interested in getting rid of the little unprofitable guys not flippant subsidizing them from there best customer funds. :0 .......Cheers
I covered that in my 10:46 post blessington. I really think you traders would be better on an exchange of your own as you all seem to think you're subsidising all the people who are paying a bigger percentage of their winnings / losses towards the site than traders are.
meh. I can see the point - it's customers' money, not theirs, so the interest should go to the customers. but I can't get very worked up about it, tbh.
I think this thread's quite instructive though as a marker of how much ill-feeling the PC's caused. doubt people would have been as bothered 18 months ago.
I think this thread's quite instructive though as a marker of how much ill-feeling the PC's caused. doubt people would have been as bothered 18 months ago.
We can only pray that betfair recognise that ill feeling and let the traders and **s go back to paying 5% of their profits. Either that or get shot of them altogether.
FECK......I NEVER TRADED in my life..... :0
I come from a little county in Ireland called KERRY who just happen to win our football championship 4 out of the last 5 years and i guess I put too much money on them here.
I'm also on FULL 5% Commission
This year they won at 11/2 B-) and thats probably the only reason I'm paying Premiun Charges now.
I come from a little county in Ireland called KERRY who just happen to win our football championship 4 out of the last 5 years and i guess I put too much money on them here.
I'm also on FULL 5% Commission
This year they won at 11/2 B-) and thats probably the only reason I'm paying Premiun Charges now.
I apologise then Blessington. You should watch the forum company you keep though.
FECK....I don't know about you I rather see one innocent man go free than 10 guilty ones been locked up.
At the moment I would say the PC hits 1 trader (not that i have anything against them) for 10 innocent punters........CRAZY
You only have to look at the other exchange to see that. As few would say if you were a trader or a fast picture merchant (that you have such a problem) with they would choose to go over there with its low liquildy.
The only guy I've come across over there are pretty much a 100% up front and just got caught up in this riduclous PC and is now left with the no brainer of a 23% commission rate here when they do win or 5% over the other side.
If it wasn't for the forum here I wouldn't even bother checking out this site anymore. I used to LOVE the place. ;( ....Cheers
At the moment I would say the PC hits 1 trader (not that i have anything against them) for 10 innocent punters........CRAZY
You only have to look at the other exchange to see that. As few would say if you were a trader or a fast picture merchant (that you have such a problem) with they would choose to go over there with its low liquildy.
The only guy I've come across over there are pretty much a 100% up front and just got caught up in this riduclous PC and is now left with the no brainer of a 23% commission rate here when they do win or 5% over the other side.
If it wasn't for the forum here I wouldn't even bother checking out this site anymore. I used to LOVE the place. ;( ....Cheers
At the moment I would say the PC hits 1 trader (not that i have anything against them) for 10 innocent punters........CRAZY
If you believe that Blessington then CRAZY is the operative word. I would guess 99% of those paying it were previously freeloaders. I don't think the pc was how they should've been made to pay ( generally LESS than their fair share) but it was lunacy to have the liquidity providers subsidising the parasites.
If you believe that Blessington then CRAZY is the operative word. I would guess 99% of those paying it were previously freeloaders. I don't think the pc was how they should've been made to pay ( generally LESS than their fair share) but it was lunacy to have the liquidity providers subsidising the parasites.
FECK,......MOVE ON. You used to be a guy ahead of the pack now your behind the rest of us.
Fast pictues was a big thing 2+ years ago now everybody who wants them has them available.
Even in little old Ireland who just got a boll0xing off the EU or somebody for falling behind on internet technology. You can go to a race meeting in the @rse hole of the country you will see the guy with his Blackberry going watching the races. Usually the local parish priest. :^0
Annybody getting caught now by that NOW, has only themsleves to blame for either been too mean to pay out for it themselves or too lazy to go to a shop where they have it.
Likewise there is literally 1000s of guys now with fast pictures so anyone making any money from them now has a lot to share it around with. :0
So if I was you I stop worrying about them and go back to what you use to be good at looking after the small man in the street who getting r1pped off and its not by fast pictures or trading its by such as by companies who are opearting in markets with no opposition and charging what they like to guys who were just as much responsible for their success as anything the shareholder ever did for the company. B-)
People getting caught out now by fast pictures are History or just some sort of DINOCERAS. I reckon you wouldn't get 1.01 on NOT finding anybody on the Racing Forum who hasn't heard of fast pictures by now ...Cheers
Fast pictues was a big thing 2+ years ago now everybody who wants them has them available.
Even in little old Ireland who just got a boll0xing off the EU or somebody for falling behind on internet technology. You can go to a race meeting in the @rse hole of the country you will see the guy with his Blackberry going watching the races. Usually the local parish priest. :^0
Annybody getting caught now by that NOW, has only themsleves to blame for either been too mean to pay out for it themselves or too lazy to go to a shop where they have it.
Likewise there is literally 1000s of guys now with fast pictures so anyone making any money from them now has a lot to share it around with. :0
So if I was you I stop worrying about them and go back to what you use to be good at looking after the small man in the street who getting r1pped off and its not by fast pictures or trading its by such as by companies who are opearting in markets with no opposition and charging what they like to guys who were just as much responsible for their success as anything the shareholder ever did for the company. B-)
People getting caught out now by fast pictures are History or just some sort of DINOCERAS. I reckon you wouldn't get 1.01 on NOT finding anybody on the Racing Forum who hasn't heard of fast pictures by now ...Cheers
Please can you tell me where and how to get the fast pictures.
Sorry Blessington, after reading that post I find it hard to believe there's anyone behind you.
FECK.....COME ON!...... Smart minds and all that.
You think the average Betfairian needs nearly 3 years to figure out a guy at the races with a Blackberry is faster than the guy sitting in his house watching Channel 4.
Or that the average Betfairian when he see's the prices change during a tennis match or golf tournament and it just happens its the guy who wins the point a fraction of a second later. He just puts it down as somebody constantly hitting lucky.....
Our Smart minds are not as slow as that..... Most of us sometime wish they were :^0
Anyway if you read the Racing Post enough of their reporters have now tried it out fast pictures and all. They still couldn't manage to win they all came back with the same conclusion fast pictures or not its gone way to competitive now to just hope a fast picture will put you on the road to riches.
I'm sure Tennis and golf is gone the same. Not that I ever understood the advantage in golf with a tournament running 4 long days.......Cheers
You think the average Betfairian needs nearly 3 years to figure out a guy at the races with a Blackberry is faster than the guy sitting in his house watching Channel 4.
Or that the average Betfairian when he see's the prices change during a tennis match or golf tournament and it just happens its the guy who wins the point a fraction of a second later. He just puts it down as somebody constantly hitting lucky.....
Our Smart minds are not as slow as that..... Most of us sometime wish they were :^0
Anyway if you read the Racing Post enough of their reporters have now tried it out fast pictures and all. They still couldn't manage to win they all came back with the same conclusion fast pictures or not its gone way to competitive now to just hope a fast picture will put you on the road to riches.
I'm sure Tennis and golf is gone the same. Not that I ever understood the advantage in golf with a tournament running 4 long days.......Cheers
A lot of people know they are behind on the pictures but dont have the discipline to stop playing.
Yeah but thats a different problem....But as the Racing Post guys showed just because you might be a few secs ahead doesn't necessary mean you still will do the right thing. Especially when you know all your colleagues are seen the same things happen.
I often put a bet on after the off before in-running after the favourite started slow but I still never got it right.
One day I was betting a hour after the off in 2 ball golf betting and still got cleaned out.
Its a myth there is any easy way of making money betting.
Hard work or nothing imo and avoid paying extra commission to the PC when the same odds are available elsewhere. Would be my strategy for success.....Cheers
I often put a bet on after the off before in-running after the favourite started slow but I still never got it right.
One day I was betting a hour after the off in 2 ball golf betting and still got cleaned out.
Its a myth there is any easy way of making money betting.
Hard work or nothing imo and avoid paying extra commission to the PC when the same odds are available elsewhere. Would be my strategy for success.....Cheers
Blessington, the slow pic players lose heavily overall to the fast pic players. The fact that some fast pic players are slow of mind does not change that fact. What is this crusade you're on anyway?
FECK anybody who loses because of fast pictures now 3 years on have only themselves to blame.
Fast picture are OLD NEWS now. You can open a forum without somebody asking for a exchange shop or somebody asking the fastest site for pictures. The Racing Post is full of reporters given them a go as a feature report.
I just wonder why you think the average guy on Betfair is so stup1d now that 3 years on he still hasn't figure out somebody at the races with a high tec phone is going to be quicker to see whats happening than him sitting at home waiting for pictures to be beamed into his house.
Likewise at a tennis match. How long is it now since those professional gamblers who were ex bookies decided to fly to Australia to bet from court side? I think it 4 years or even more. Again the Racing Post did a feature on one of them who died last year.
Funny thing was the guy was after stopping it a few years ago when he said too many were at it.
So agenda I just wonder why you think the average fast mind on here needs 3-4 years to realise a guy at the races or a guy in a exchange shop or just some TV provider like it says in the corner of the screen on every betting event.
That some of them might be providing picture to you slower than somebody else and thats why a price shortens just before something good happens to the bet not because that layer has found some divine insight.........
I just don't understand why you feel 3-4 years on after exchange shops first opened that your breaking some sort of News now telling us that the guy in there paying a £100 a week or whatever is using SIS pictures (or bookies pictures) whichever you like, are recieving them 2-3 seconds ahead of the guy watching ATR or RUK.
COME ON! Its Betfair sharp minds your talking too and on a Betfair forum where it has been covered everyday for the last 3-4 years.......MOVE ON give us something NEW now.
Like how many 5% commission PUNTERS like me now end up paying Premiun Charges just because we followed a successful team, or horse, or because we just increased our normal bet which was successful, or we're just on here too long now to lose enough....
Now that would be positive news for most of us joe soaps and what FECK of old would have been hitting us with......Cheers
....................................................................
PS, Didn't you have £10k on Celtic a few years ago? You couldn't do that now with the PC could you?
Fast picture are OLD NEWS now. You can open a forum without somebody asking for a exchange shop or somebody asking the fastest site for pictures. The Racing Post is full of reporters given them a go as a feature report.
I just wonder why you think the average guy on Betfair is so stup1d now that 3 years on he still hasn't figure out somebody at the races with a high tec phone is going to be quicker to see whats happening than him sitting at home waiting for pictures to be beamed into his house.
Likewise at a tennis match. How long is it now since those professional gamblers who were ex bookies decided to fly to Australia to bet from court side? I think it 4 years or even more. Again the Racing Post did a feature on one of them who died last year.
Funny thing was the guy was after stopping it a few years ago when he said too many were at it.
So agenda I just wonder why you think the average fast mind on here needs 3-4 years to realise a guy at the races or a guy in a exchange shop or just some TV provider like it says in the corner of the screen on every betting event.
That some of them might be providing picture to you slower than somebody else and thats why a price shortens just before something good happens to the bet not because that layer has found some divine insight.........
I just don't understand why you feel 3-4 years on after exchange shops first opened that your breaking some sort of News now telling us that the guy in there paying a £100 a week or whatever is using SIS pictures (or bookies pictures) whichever you like, are recieving them 2-3 seconds ahead of the guy watching ATR or RUK.
COME ON! Its Betfair sharp minds your talking too and on a Betfair forum where it has been covered everyday for the last 3-4 years.......MOVE ON give us something NEW now.
Like how many 5% commission PUNTERS like me now end up paying Premiun Charges just because we followed a successful team, or horse, or because we just increased our normal bet which was successful, or we're just on here too long now to lose enough....
Now that would be positive news for most of us joe soaps and what FECK of old would have been hitting us with......Cheers
....................................................................
PS, Didn't you have £10k on Celtic a few years ago? You couldn't do that now with the PC could you?
FECK anybody who loses because of fast pictures now 3 years on have only themselves to blame.
No they don't. Do cripples deserve to have their crutches kicked from under them just because they venture outdoors?
I just wonder why you think the average guy on Betfair is so stup1d now that 3 years on he still hasn't figure out somebody at the races with a high tec phone is going to be quicker to see whats happening than him sitting at home waiting for pictures to be beamed into his house.
Because if they weren't stupid there'd be little point in anyone going to the races with their high tec phone.
I just don't understand why you feel 3-4 years on after exchange shops first opened that your breaking some sort of News now telling us that the guy in there paying a £100 a week or whatever is using SIS pictures (or bookies pictures) whichever you like, are recieving them 2-3 seconds ahead of the guy watching ATR or RUK.
Where did I suggest I was making a revelation to anyone on here?
COME ON! Its Betfair sharp minds your talking too
Where?
Like how many 5% commission PUNTERS like me now end up paying Premiun Charges just because we followed a successful team, or horse, or because we just increased our normal bet which was successful, or we're just on here too long now to lose enough....
Very few I'd have said although I've ever sympathy with anyone who finds themselves in that position. Maybe if they'd joined the campaign to get rid of the regular pc parasites we'd have been spared the parasite tax (and the inevitable government one).
Now that would be positive news for most of us joe soaps and what FECK of old would have been hitting us with......Cheers
I just don't understand why you feel that two years on I would waste my time on the subject of beating the parasite charge when it's been raised and discussed so many times by "sharp minds".
No they don't. Do cripples deserve to have their crutches kicked from under them just because they venture outdoors?
I just wonder why you think the average guy on Betfair is so stup1d now that 3 years on he still hasn't figure out somebody at the races with a high tec phone is going to be quicker to see whats happening than him sitting at home waiting for pictures to be beamed into his house.
Because if they weren't stupid there'd be little point in anyone going to the races with their high tec phone.
I just don't understand why you feel 3-4 years on after exchange shops first opened that your breaking some sort of News now telling us that the guy in there paying a £100 a week or whatever is using SIS pictures (or bookies pictures) whichever you like, are recieving them 2-3 seconds ahead of the guy watching ATR or RUK.
Where did I suggest I was making a revelation to anyone on here?
COME ON! Its Betfair sharp minds your talking too
Where?
Like how many 5% commission PUNTERS like me now end up paying Premiun Charges just because we followed a successful team, or horse, or because we just increased our normal bet which was successful, or we're just on here too long now to lose enough....
Very few I'd have said although I've ever sympathy with anyone who finds themselves in that position. Maybe if they'd joined the campaign to get rid of the regular pc parasites we'd have been spared the parasite tax (and the inevitable government one).
Now that would be positive news for most of us joe soaps and what FECK of old would have been hitting us with......Cheers
I just don't understand why you feel that two years on I would waste my time on the subject of beating the parasite charge when it's been raised and discussed so many times by "sharp minds".
parasite parasite parasite parasite what this feck just give up
FECK....More guys are going to get hit by the EFFECTS of the PREMIUN CHARGES than will lose to fast pictures now.
Have you looked around you? Can you ever remember Tennis Markets during the Australian Open without a bet up on them. Such as in the Tennis Specials.
Have you ever remembered a Golf Market and a prinipal one at that the US Money lists with no bets up on it.
Or the highlight of the Rugby Union Club season the Heineken Cup Outright market where the other exchange has 4 times the total matched on it.
Or a Horse Racing market such as the Order of Merit or the All Weather top Jockey market where the books are running at which are running 5 months with less than £1 k matched between them. There the obivious ones and I could go on and on.
The facts are there the PC whether your paying it or not is now killing good prices and competitve markets. Look at the Golf Outright markets the exchange with so called no liquildty is now better price on most golfers.
Premiun Charges are killing the game here for both payer of PC and non payer of PC and fast pictures and all the other sh1te has little or no effect on the average Joe soap here compared to what the PC charge is doing.
Who cares whether it was aimed or not aimed at a particular style of punter on here or one thing for sure any advantage a fast picture merchant had in the past is now surely long gone. With so many others betting that way ...... Cheers
Have you looked around you? Can you ever remember Tennis Markets during the Australian Open without a bet up on them. Such as in the Tennis Specials.
Have you ever remembered a Golf Market and a prinipal one at that the US Money lists with no bets up on it.
Or the highlight of the Rugby Union Club season the Heineken Cup Outright market where the other exchange has 4 times the total matched on it.
Or a Horse Racing market such as the Order of Merit or the All Weather top Jockey market where the books are running at which are running 5 months with less than £1 k matched between them. There the obivious ones and I could go on and on.
The facts are there the PC whether your paying it or not is now killing good prices and competitve markets. Look at the Golf Outright markets the exchange with so called no liquildty is now better price on most golfers.
Premiun Charges are killing the game here for both payer of PC and non payer of PC and fast pictures and all the other sh1te has little or no effect on the average Joe soap here compared to what the PC charge is doing.
Who cares whether it was aimed or not aimed at a particular style of punter on here or one thing for sure any advantage a fast picture merchant had in the past is now surely long gone. With so many others betting that way ...... Cheers
http://pplace.forumotion.com/chit-chat-f8/
is where most of the chitchat banned go
is where most of the chitchat banned go
Someone need to take up the baton from Tony and make a full time career out of entering into discussion with Feck, where each party continuously rephrases the same arguments and no-one ever changes their stance even in the slightest :D
INVESTOR........You NEVER BEAT THE IRISH :^0 ...... No SURRENDER. B-)
Premiun Charges are killing the game here for both payer of PC and non payer of PC and fast pictures and all the other sh1te has little or no effect on the average Joe soap here compared to what the PC charge is doing.
The average joe soap is untouched by the pc and the only "liquidity" it's killing is of the ticket tout kind apart from the odd "fun bet" placed elsewhere by the "sharp minded" pc payers who aren't sharp enough to understand how the pc works.
The average joe soap is untouched by the pc and the only "liquidity" it's killing is of the ticket tout kind apart from the odd "fun bet" placed elsewhere by the "sharp minded" pc payers who aren't sharp enough to understand how the pc works.
Feck do you agree that an increase in traders would not do any harm to the exchange?
Of course it's annoying when someone jumps in front of your large bets by a tiny increment with £2, but if 1000 traders were doing this and outbidding each other, the only possible effect is increased efficiency.
Of course it's annoying when someone jumps in front of your large bets by a tiny increment with £2, but if 1000 traders were doing this and outbidding each other, the only possible effect is increased efficiency.
Investor, are you seriously suggesting that if 1,000 new horse racing traders joined betfair I'd only have to stick up a £2 lay of a horse in order to get a 2K back on it covered?
If 1,000 people suddenly decided to become ticket touts, do you think I'd only have to stand in an empty ticket queue to guarantee a concert the sale of a 1,000 tickets?
If 1,000 people suddenly decided to become ticket touts, do you think I'd only have to stand in an empty ticket queue to guarantee a concert the sale of a 1,000 tickets?
The average joe soap is untouched by the pc
Feck the African golf market last week was running at 330% I've never seen so uncompetitive markets on Betfair......
There is no competition any more when it comes to putting up prices on some events.
That were punters are now getting r1pped off. No body around to force the layer out or chase the business. Guys know now with so few still around they can just sit on their hands and let the punter move their bets in to meet theirs.
Anyway I was reading in one of the betting mags that a bookmaker will soon put up a LAY button on their site......That surely be good news for everybody...In a few years time they be asking what was the PC on their quiz games.... :^0
No Feck, that's not what I mean.
What I mean is that it is healthy for the exchange if many people are outbidding each other and profit margins are slim for the traders / gamblers / market makers.
In markets with low liquidity I attempt to make money by offering 'bad value' bets. Occasionally these will get matched and I will make a profit, although the risk is larger, as I may not be able to trade out if things go against me.
In markets with very high liquidity, I can make much more. As I bet almost exclusively on football this would be World Cup, Champions League Finals etc. This is because I can take large risk, and if I feel the market is out of line I can bet big and trade out quickly if things screw up.
You would expect prices to be more accurate with more liquidity. While this seems to be the case, it is also true that you can churn through far more bets. Smaller margins, but higher profits.
What I mean is that it is healthy for the exchange if many people are outbidding each other and profit margins are slim for the traders / gamblers / market makers.
In markets with low liquidity I attempt to make money by offering 'bad value' bets. Occasionally these will get matched and I will make a profit, although the risk is larger, as I may not be able to trade out if things go against me.
In markets with very high liquidity, I can make much more. As I bet almost exclusively on football this would be World Cup, Champions League Finals etc. This is because I can take large risk, and if I feel the market is out of line I can bet big and trade out quickly if things screw up.
You would expect prices to be more accurate with more liquidity. While this seems to be the case, it is also true that you can churn through far more bets. Smaller margins, but higher profits.
Blessington 20 Jan 20:57
[...]
Anyway I was reading in one of the betting mags that a bookmaker will soon put up a LAY button on their site......That surely be good news for everybody...In a few years time they be asking what was the PC on their quiz games.... :^0
That's interesting. Wonder how that will work out.
[...]
Anyway I was reading in one of the betting mags that a bookmaker will soon put up a LAY button on their site......That surely be good news for everybody...In a few years time they be asking what was the PC on their quiz games.... :^0
That's interesting. Wonder how that will work out.
They tried this a few years ago. It seemed to peter out, the prices they offered were atrocious.
They also started their own exchange. That petered out too.
There is absolutely no limit to their hypocrisy.
They also started their own exchange. That petered out too.
There is absolutely no limit to their hypocrisy.
Blessington, are you saying the market makers prefer nothing to 85%s of their old profits or that people who are unaffected by the pc aren't accomodating the market makers because they think they might get hit with the pc? Neither seems likely imo. Re the bookmaker's lay button, I think you're delusional if you think anyone out there (including other exchanges) are desperate to attract people who are willing to give them 5% of their profits but will whinge and bad mouth them if they have to pay any more than that.
Investor, there are very few price aware traders which is why the early liquidity is so bad. Most want to bet in high liquidity markets and, since the spread is already tight in these, I fail to see how adding another 1,000 middlemen would improve liquidity. In such markets the true backers and layers would match each other in the absence of traders.
Investor, there are very few price aware traders which is why the early liquidity is so bad. Most want to bet in high liquidity markets and, since the spread is already tight in these, I fail to see how adding another 1,000 middlemen would improve liquidity. In such markets the true backers and layers would match each other in the absence of traders.
Feck N. Eejit
"there are very few price aware traders" !!
I diont agree. Sure there are traders running formulaic bots but even these are programmed according to observation of prices and hence they are price aware. I am not one of these.
Most other traders making any money are highly price aware. It is the essence of trading - backing or laying a selection because they have taken a view about a future price. Essentially this type of trader is a postion taker in the same way that you are but who chose to adjust their postition to lock in a profit or loss.
"there are very few price aware traders" !!
I diont agree. Sure there are traders running formulaic bots but even these are programmed according to observation of prices and hence they are price aware. I am not one of these.
Most other traders making any money are highly price aware. It is the essence of trading - backing or laying a selection because they have taken a view about a future price. Essentially this type of trader is a postion taker in the same way that you are but who chose to adjust their postition to lock in a profit or loss.
FECK....Lots of bookies would be delighted to open their doors every morning known that they were guarnteed to make 5% on EVERY market. Especially if they thought they could reach anywhere like Betfair turnover.
Its whether these Bookies want somebody else to lay certain losers based on their own intelligence network they have set up in some stable yards, or from certain owners betting accounts is a different question. :^0 ......Cheers
Its whether these Bookies want somebody else to lay certain losers based on their own intelligence network they have set up in some stable yards, or from certain owners betting accounts is a different question. :^0 ......Cheers
beetle, I'm talking about having their own opinion of what an outcome's true probability is, not whether they think the market is going to move a certain way due to queue info. If they were all price aware (in my sense) and really did supply liquidity they'd all be supplying it over at the purple site and paying only 200% of what they do here. There again, if betfair thought they were liquidity providers they would never have risked alienating them.
Blessington, betfair would be ecstatic if they could make 5% on their turnover on every market. Give it up.
Blessington, betfair would be ecstatic if they could make 5% on their turnover on every market. Give it up.
FECK.....HA HA, your playing with words.
5% off every winning bet in EVERY MARKET. :)
5% off every winning bet in EVERY MARKET. :)
Feck, you're not paying attention to what The Investor said. Like most successful traders, he has an opinion about the true price, and takes a position based on it.
He expects the market to correct over time.
I'd be surprised if many traded successfully based on the queue. It is full of spoofers.
Most traders agree that WoM is no longer significant.
He expects the market to correct over time.
I'd be surprised if many traded successfully based on the queue. It is full of spoofers.
Most traders agree that WoM is no longer significant.
Feck
if you think most traders take a position based on queue information you are just living your own reality which is far away from the real world
Anyone that bases trades on queue information loses.
if you think most traders take a position based on queue information you are just living your own reality which is far away from the real world
Anyone that bases trades on queue information loses.
You were right first time beetle, it's 'loses'.
I'd be amazed if even a minute fraction of horse race traders had their own tissue. I daresay there will be more in the sports market where odds compiling is micky mouse.
You'll be telling me next that Adam Heathcote is up all night studying form. Give me a fkng break.
I'd be amazed if even a minute fraction of horse race traders had their own tissue. I daresay there will be more in the sports market where odds compiling is micky mouse.
You'll be telling me next that Adam Heathcote is up all night studying form. Give me a fkng break.
Incidentally, do you think wom is all that's available in the interface?
Blessington, betfair would be ecstatic if they got 5% off every winning bet. Give it up.
20% of every winning account does that wording suit you? :0
In the bookmaker's case that would amount to practically nothing. Give it up Blessington. Cheers.
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