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02 Nov 09
12:19
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Date Joined:
12 Mar 05
Just been reading Barry's thread, lots of that rings true with me.
Am at a real crossroads in my life, work for myself and there is next to nothing doing at the moment. Fortunate enough to have a little bit stashed away and not much by way expenses month on month. The real problem is the boredom and lack of a little income for spending money.
In the past I have lost a lot of money gambling, mostly through drunken stupidity / chasing. We are talking up to £5k at a time. So for the last couple of years I have reined it right in, in the last 6 months I have probably had 3 or 4 bets. I am thinking of putting in a grand and through careful betting and trading seeing if I can increase this week on week by small amounts. Not only to get some income, however how small (I would happily take a guaranteed £50 per week) but to keep me sane.
Or should I just knock it on the head totally? Once the grand is in there will be no more depositing as I will put the limit back down to £5 where it is at the moment.
Am at a real crossroads in my life, work for myself and there is next to nothing doing at the moment. Fortunate enough to have a little bit stashed away and not much by way expenses month on month. The real problem is the boredom and lack of a little income for spending money.
In the past I have lost a lot of money gambling, mostly through drunken stupidity / chasing. We are talking up to £5k at a time. So for the last couple of years I have reined it right in, in the last 6 months I have probably had 3 or 4 bets. I am thinking of putting in a grand and through careful betting and trading seeing if I can increase this week on week by small amounts. Not only to get some income, however how small (I would happily take a guaranteed £50 per week) but to keep me sane.
Or should I just knock it on the head totally? Once the grand is in there will be no more depositing as I will put the limit back down to £5 where it is at the moment.
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be carefull using trading software, it will make you lose more unless you know what you are doing
cheers. all i would be doing is effectively greening up, on here. been down the software route before.
will also set a weekly stop limit to stop me chasing losses.
so will it work if:
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
will also set a weekly stop limit to stop me chasing losses.
so will it work if:
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
Welcome to the club :-)
I don't know how much money you have overall (and not going to ask!) but if 1K is a fair % of your total then I'd say put a lot less. I just keep £20 - £50 in betfair as I know I can't make it pay. Depends on if you seriously think you can make a fair bit/have an edge I guess.
I don't know how much money you have overall (and not going to ask!) but if 1K is a fair % of your total then I'd say put a lot less. I just keep £20 - £50 in betfair as I know I can't make it pay. Depends on if you seriously think you can make a fair bit/have an edge I guess.
I know I know - one more mug! Cheers though.
Put it this way, 1k I can afford to lose, would p1ss me off but I'd get over it. Feel it would be much easier to make small amounts from that than it would £20-50 as you suggest, where I would be looking to back a higher % of the bank at longer odds
Put it this way, 1k I can afford to lose, would p1ss me off but I'd get over it. Feel it would be much easier to make small amounts from that than it would £20-50 as you suggest, where I would be looking to back a higher % of the bank at longer odds
Are you better than 99% of Betfairians?
If the answer is yes-go for it. If the answer is no- forget it. You know it makes sense!
If the answer is yes-go for it. If the answer is no- forget it. You know it makes sense!
Betting to make a living is boring well it is to me anyway after 7 years of doing it. You've got to be focused and disciplined both of which become boring and become more boring over time.
I guess if I found it easy and I found loads of good opportunities all the time I wouldn't find it so boring. It's much more fun to enjoy a casual gamble without serious pretensions to make consistent gains.
Stick to one of your fave sports which isn't played throughout the year and you'll get a better balance imo.
I guess if I found it easy and I found loads of good opportunities all the time I wouldn't find it so boring. It's much more fun to enjoy a casual gamble without serious pretensions to make consistent gains.
Stick to one of your fave sports which isn't played throughout the year and you'll get a better balance imo.
good points chaps. slicer no I'm not mate :( Though if I can add discipline I might be able to make small returns with a grand.
Clyde you are right, though one of the reasons for doing this would be to alleviate the day to day boredom i often encounter.
Clyde you are right, though one of the reasons for doing this would be to alleviate the day to day boredom i often encounter.
Monty's Wonderbra 02 Nov 13:40
cheers. all i would be doing is effectively greening up, on here. been down the software route before.
will also set a weekly stop limit to stop me chasing losses.
so will it work if:
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
Basically good rules to follow with the exception of number 1.
If you aim to trade out of bets you would be better off following one of these rules :
1a : Always trade out of a position whether it looks like a winning or a losing one.
1b : Always trade out of a losing position.
Imo you should only trade out of a position (winning or losing) when you consider the bet you place to do this , to be value at that time.
cheers. all i would be doing is effectively greening up, on here. been down the software route before.
will also set a weekly stop limit to stop me chasing losses.
so will it work if:
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
Basically good rules to follow with the exception of number 1.
If you aim to trade out of bets you would be better off following one of these rules :
1a : Always trade out of a position whether it looks like a winning or a losing one.
1b : Always trade out of a losing position.
Imo you should only trade out of a position (winning or losing) when you consider the bet you place to do this , to be value at that time.
Discipline is difficult to learn (unless you are taught by Madame Whiplash of Kings Cross). You either have it or you don't.
Remember- most gamblers delude themselves.
Also do not fall for the Start Again Syndrome. That is when you lose money, say you wiill do something differently, start again, lose money, say you will do something differently etc.
You either have an edge or you don't!
And if you have an edge, it had better be a good one or the commission and premium TAX will make it hardly worthwhile.
I hope these thoughts are of assistance.
Remember- most gamblers delude themselves.
Also do not fall for the Start Again Syndrome. That is when you lose money, say you wiill do something differently, start again, lose money, say you will do something differently etc.
You either have an edge or you don't!
And if you have an edge, it had better be a good one or the commission and premium TAX will make it hardly worthwhile.
I hope these thoughts are of assistance.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY- if you have to ask us THE ANSWER IS NO!
Eddie the eagle 02 Nov 14:22
Imo you should only trade out of a position (winning or losing) when you consider the bet you place to do this , to be value at that time.
Very good point. nail/head.
Mind you, having been burnt on several occasions I have learnt a lesson. A bet is never safe. take football as an example, team A is all over team B for 80 mins before they score. Surely you would lay off at this point regardless?
Imo you should only trade out of a position (winning or losing) when you consider the bet you place to do this , to be value at that time.
Very good point. nail/head.
Mind you, having been burnt on several occasions I have learnt a lesson. A bet is never safe. take football as an example, team A is all over team B for 80 mins before they score. Surely you would lay off at this point regardless?
3) only bet sober?
Never.....I actually do better after a drink........or at least I think I do.
Never.....I actually do better after a drink........or at least I think I do.
lol. eliminates the fear factor, which when it pays off is brilliant. in the long run it is a one way ticket to the samaritans,
beginning to change my mind, risking £50 on a 1.6 shot that I'd lay off (if possible) - cant see it making fortunes, quite the opposite
Oh well, the day has come. Changed the deposit limit so many times but at 14.40 this afternoon I am able to deposit the grand and go from there.
Will update on this more for my records so apologies if it keeps getting bumped. Doing it to try and keep discipline and patience.
A little dabble today then no real betting opportunities until next week, but the mrs is away for 2 weeks so then its tv sports and pc all the way.
Feel free to post whatever!
Will update on this more for my records so apologies if it keeps getting bumped. Doing it to try and keep discipline and patience.
A little dabble today then no real betting opportunities until next week, but the mrs is away for 2 weeks so then its tv sports and pc all the way.
Feel free to post whatever!
interesting fred.
what i would say is be very selective and unless you love the sport(s) you're betting on then leave it alone. it's like many things in life - you tend to do better at what you like doing.
what i would say is be very selective and unless you love the sport(s) you're betting on then leave it alone. it's like many things in life - you tend to do better at what you like doing.
going to be selective, not just bet for the sake of it, try and watch in running and make several small trades.
starting with very small stakes trying to treat it as ahobby (while work is almost non extinct) with a small return.
not looked at tonights games and wont be betting. mrs last night before 3 weeks away.
might get involved in cricket this pm IF zim can get themselves into the game. Looking unlikely though
starting with very small stakes trying to treat it as ahobby (while work is almost non extinct) with a small return.
not looked at tonights games and wont be betting. mrs last night before 3 weeks away.
might get involved in cricket this pm IF zim can get themselves into the game. Looking unlikely though
PS sevey - match sticks?? oh you think i am betting with matchsticks is that right? no mate one thousand gbp's.
monty i was not talking about your stakes
match sticks for your eyes if you are betting sports watching sports
eating sports tv@ pc a Harold Shand is a nice tank to get started all the best once again
match sticks for your eyes if you are betting sports watching sports
eating sports tv@ pc a Harold Shand is a nice tank to get started all the best once again
Withdraw your funds and clear off now!
Dont say you werent told!
No charge for this invaluable advice!
Dont say you werent told!
No charge for this invaluable advice!
Monty's Wonderbra
Don't play with money that you obviously can not afford to lose lol.
Don't play with money that you obviously can not afford to lose lol.
experimented with a few markets for small stakes. around £3 up, having lost in only one market so far. trying to do a bit of trading / scalping, at £2/£3 stakes so far. Have noticed that betfair rapid is so slow, especially on the cricket yesterday, that you have no chance of getting prices matched.
ICANTSTAND you are a moron, I wont listen to anything you have to say having seen some of your posts on the cricket forum.
ICANTSTAND you are a moron, I wont listen to anything you have to say having seen some of your posts on the cricket forum.
downloaded geeks toy but havent had chance to look at properly, looks complicated so need to sit down and look at it properly next week.
broken the key rule twice already, dont bet on what you know little about. won a bit on the match odds and overs in the footy last night but chucked it back laying bookings. then to compound it have a mess about on the horses this afternoon. needless waste of a score. hoping to get that back on the draw in the test match. 1.84 a good price (when i looked last anyway) with 3 days remaining and only 13 wickets down. plus some overs in the cup ties tonight.
Are you , when looking to trade , going to close out for a loss as Eddie Eagle advises?
Otherwise when the market moves against you , you'll end up just praying the original bet wins
Otherwise when the market moves against you , you'll end up just praying the original bet wins
not crossed that bridge yet mate.
tbh i have been a total plank, probably proving slicer right. not shown any discipline or patience and just dived in this week. bank currently at £835.35 with £139 exposure
tbh i have been a total plank, probably proving slicer right. not shown any discipline or patience and just dived in this week. bank currently at £835.35 with £139 exposure
Slicer your so brutal
But 5ucking spot on!
But 5ucking spot on!
are you going to list your bets and balance with every new bet?
Monty's Wonderbra 02 Nov 13:19
The real problem is the boredom .
Thats it in a nutshell......Turn off comp,is the only way to get over this problem.. If its on,and youre watching a race ,you immediately form opinions.. I once leapt off the settee and lost 200 at a click..
What a Plank !
The real problem is the boredom .
Thats it in a nutshell......Turn off comp,is the only way to get over this problem.. If its on,and youre watching a race ,you immediately form opinions.. I once leapt off the settee and lost 200 at a click..
What a Plank !
Hmmmn. Let's see..
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
1. Alway trade out of EVERY position.
2. Depending what your win % is and if you are trading it or gambling it.. 5% is more aggressive than good.Never use more than 20% of your bank for TRADING. 1-2% for GAMBLING.
3. Sober betting is recommended. Would you go to work drunk?
4. Don't ever make any "assessments" of situations. You trade and if the market goes against you, you leave.
Just let me say this. Take a long-term approach. Set targets to judge your system by. Start small and grow large.
Good luck, grasshopper.
1)always trade out winning position
2)stick to max 5% of bank
3) only bet sober?
4) bet where possible in play after assessment of conditions / state of play?
1. Alway trade out of EVERY position.
2. Depending what your win % is and if you are trading it or gambling it.. 5% is more aggressive than good.Never use more than 20% of your bank for TRADING. 1-2% for GAMBLING.
3. Sober betting is recommended. Would you go to work drunk?
4. Don't ever make any "assessments" of situations. You trade and if the market goes against you, you leave.
Just let me say this. Take a long-term approach. Set targets to judge your system by. Start small and grow large.
Good luck, grasshopper.
thanks snapper. spot on.
back in my comfort zone today. test match cricket :)
back in my comfort zone today. test match cricket :)
Don't make the mistake of thinking that it you like a sport, then that gives you some "special" knowledge or reason to gamble on it.
It doesn't work that way for trading. I t just leads to mistakes and trying tomake the market fit your view of it....and you will lose.
It doesn't work that way for trading. I t just leads to mistakes and trying tomake the market fit your view of it....and you will lose.
It's really vital to balance all your bets. Make them all the same size so that winners will pay for the inevitable losers over time.
Grind it out, man...day after day. Then write me a letterof thanks from your tropical paradise one day...
Grind it out, man...day after day. Then write me a letterof thanks from your tropical paradise one day...
;) cheers pal.
made another mistake last night of backing too many short price results in one go on the cup matches. should have realised the one inevitable loser would wipe out profits from winners. and so it did.
made another mistake last night of backing too many short price results in one go on the cup matches. should have realised the one inevitable loser would wipe out profits from winners. and so it did.
Monty...let me tell you something....It's not the selections that are killing you. It's the commission and the (slight) overround. It's bet sizing. Don't think for a minute that it matters much in the long run what team you select or the scoreline you choose. If you get that idea, then you are well on the road to being a successfull trader. If you don't , well, then you are doomed.
1. make sure the trainer is in good form ( i try to go for the less well known ones , so out go nicholls , king etc )
2. the trainer must have a good record at the track
3 horse must be proven on the ground .
4 .horse must be proven on type of track
5. must be proven in class
i seem to go for handicaps of 8/10 runners so as to not get interference in running .
2. the trainer must have a good record at the track
3 horse must be proven on the ground .
4 .horse must be proven on type of track
5. must be proven in class
i seem to go for handicaps of 8/10 runners so as to not get interference in running .
ZEALOT. Your selections are not important. The market already knows everything and has factored in everything (in the long run). You can wiin a few, but in the long run, you can't get ahead for long.
snapper --i think you are wrong
certain horses are overbet --which leaves value elsewhere
certain horses are overbet --which leaves value elsewhere
ZEALOT - I don't mean that these markets be always unbeatable in th' short term, but they be in th' long-term. Th' odds be stacked against ye findin' such value day aft day.
good value losers 10 Nov 13:09
interesting fred.
what i would say is be very selective and unless you love the sport(s) you're betting on then leave it alone. it's like many things in life - you tend to do better at what you like doing.
interesting fred.
what i would say is be very selective and unless you love the sport(s) you're betting on then leave it alone. it's like many things in life - you tend to do better at what you like doing.
gvl that is a very good post mate. Also the poster who said win small and often. Two very valuable pieces of advice to whoever reads this.
For me I lost discipline to start, bank quickly went down to £775 with £75 exposure, so down a ton and a hlaf basically. Betting on a range of sports I had no interest in.
Thankfully that exposure was mainly on england to win the ODI which they did. Since then I've been steadily increasing to the bank, with a current streak of 17 profitable trades in different markets, all on one sport.
Whilst they are only small profits they are off a starting stake of between £7-15 (with a £5 top up on a couple). This must be the way to go adn shouldnt see me back to the £700s again. As long as I can stick to it.
Thanks for the advice guys.
PS not back to parity yet but bank at £938.39 with £24.50 liability.
For me I lost discipline to start, bank quickly went down to £775 with £75 exposure, so down a ton and a hlaf basically. Betting on a range of sports I had no interest in.
Thankfully that exposure was mainly on england to win the ODI which they did. Since then I've been steadily increasing to the bank, with a current streak of 17 profitable trades in different markets, all on one sport.
Whilst they are only small profits they are off a starting stake of between £7-15 (with a £5 top up on a couple). This must be the way to go adn shouldnt see me back to the £700s again. As long as I can stick to it.
Thanks for the advice guys.
PS not back to parity yet but bank at £938.39 with £24.50 liability.
Excellent example 'o how futile gamblin' be compared to tradin'.
Don't look back, me bucko!
Don't look back, me bucko!
Let me tell you a true story.
I was down close to 50,000 pounds before I turned it around.
Have a plan
Know your edge
Stick to the plan
If you feel you're about to chase log off
I never watch or listen to the races now, I'm never looking at my P&L until the last bet has been run.
These methods helped me return from what seemed an impossible position to winning consistently.
In the immortal words of Captain Kirk
There's only one kind of woman...or man, for that matter. You either believe in yourself or you don't.
I was down close to 50,000 pounds before I turned it around.
Have a plan
Know your edge
Stick to the plan
If you feel you're about to chase log off
I never watch or listen to the races now, I'm never looking at my P&L until the last bet has been run.
These methods helped me return from what seemed an impossible position to winning consistently.
In the immortal words of Captain Kirk
There's only one kind of woman...or man, for that matter. You either believe in yourself or you don't.
bto
not creeping but i seriously think your a great human being
good luck mate .
not creeping but i seriously think your a great human being
good luck mate .
Betting for a wage stick to one job ....... when you had one job .. nothing else counted ...... forget all the games you can play in ....... play in the one game your good at ....... my game is horse racing ... i dont do darts .. football . snocker ... poker ... cards .. greyhound racing ... last goal fist goal .. who will win come dancing .. need i go on ... you only need to be good at 1 subject
great points.
zipper my current exposure is on.....
IACGMOOH!! :0
there did lie my main problem.
zipper my current exposure is on.....
IACGMOOH!! :0
there did lie my main problem.
I make a mint on snocker. Don't give up on it zip.
My first post.
In my personal opinion I think that £1000 as a starting bank for someone who finds disciplining themselves hard is a big mistake.
If you are going to do small bets then why would you need soo much? If you make your bank smaller then it makes you think much harder about what you are betting on.
In my personal opinion I think that £1000 as a starting bank for someone who finds disciplining themselves hard is a big mistake.
If you are going to do small bets then why would you need soo much? If you make your bank smaller then it makes you think much harder about what you are betting on.
My advice is to stay away from horses Monty and just do cricket, test cricket especially.
Do the golf as well if youve got a grand in the bank. Lay the top 80% and lay the rest off in running. Usually works well enough.
With a bit of homework and patience you can make it pay.
Bookies always win, is the saying, so try being a bookie instead of a gambler.
Do the golf as well if youve got a grand in the bank. Lay the top 80% and lay the rest off in running. Usually works well enough.
With a bit of homework and patience you can make it pay.
Bookies always win, is the saying, so try being a bookie instead of a gambler.
jurassic. thinking exactly the same thing myself. why a grand? you are right, but now it is in there i am finding it a very psychological figure. my largest exposure to date has been £75 on england in the cricket. Once I get back to and over the grand I'll start withdrawing a bit and upping the stakes a little.
Re test cricket post - yes a good one. I know a lot about test cricket and will be betting on tests a lot. But sticking to a rule of never betting before I can see where the game is heading. For eg backing the draw at Dunedin after day 2 at 1.73 and the first test at Ahmedebad at 1.85
Re test cricket post - yes a good one. I know a lot about test cricket and will be betting on tests a lot. But sticking to a rule of never betting before I can see where the game is heading. For eg backing the draw at Dunedin after day 2 at 1.73 and the first test at Ahmedebad at 1.85
made it back to parity! well a fiver up :) bloody hard work mind, winnig often and little from low stakes. going to try and get a little ahead then up the satkes to make it worthwhile. thats where the biggish bank comes in useful.
profit 45 out of 53 markets entered in week
profit 45 out of 53 markets entered in week
I'm withdrawing all money I make every monday over and above my basic balance which always stays there. That's my strategy to not wasting money on stupid bets.
was thinking of doing that, maybe half of anything olver a grand. but i think i'd rather try and build up a nice big balance instead
bloody hard work this lark! up now a little, upped the stakes a little but now laying off for the same amount, ie less risk.
ps another target i am working at...raising money for charity (cot death) by doing the marathon
www.justgiving.com/rwkmarathon ;)
ps another target i am working at...raising money for charity (cot death) by doing the marathon
www.justgiving.com/rwkmarathon ;)
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